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V5 Blood Sorcery Paths?

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  • V5 Blood Sorcery Paths?

    Any ideas or suggestions on how V5 Blood Sorcery rules for Blood Magic Paths should be adapted?

    There has to be some adaptation for the versatility of Thaumaturgy (or whatever a vampire calls Blood Sorcery), as canon characters like Schrekt and Carna, as well as long time player characters, will have lots of powers to account for...

    I imagine Paths with a single, progressive effect (like Lure of Flames, Movement of the Mind, Weather Manipulation, Conter Magic, and Mercury/Praapti) can become a single power of Blood Sorcery, their strength determined by the level in Blood Sorcery (and/or successes) instead of the level on the particular Path.

    Conjuring can also work like this, with simple and complex objects (former level 1-2 and 3), as well banishing conjurations (level 4), within the purview of the same power. And maybe the level 5 (conjuring living things) better become its own power.

    But how would you adapt Paths with very different power levels? I can see each power becoming a Blood Sorcery power, but how to account for the one power per dot rule for experienced blood mages?

    Some Paths make sense as Rituals (for instance, most Technomancy powers). Some of the single powers Paths could also be Rituals: Movement of the Mind already got a V5 Ritual allowing flight. But I don't see Lure of Flames as a Ritual; as well as many other Path powers (Hands of Destruction, for instance) that have instantaneous effects.

    If adopting V5 for chronicles with blood mage characters, how would you do it?

  • #2
    I think you nailed it as far as how I'd approach adapting Paths, though I'd probably convert Lure of Flames, Movement of the Mind and Weather Manipulation to Rituals.

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    • #3
      I hope that these paths are officially converted into rituals, and no longer into instantaneous powers, especially powers like lure of flame.

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      • #4
        I was actually going over a lot of old path powers and many of them still seemed perfectly functional as rituals, just with extended durations to account for extended casting time, and the essence of air ritual showed how one would handle a power that did need to be accessed immediately. Here is my take on lure of flames based on essence of air.

        Lure of Flames (0000) By infusing a burning coal with their blood a sorcerer my invoke the power of fire, calling forth ghostly blue flames. The flames are heatless until released at which point the fire is unleashed upon whatever has offended the caster. The fires unleashed by this ritual are not natural and some say they come from hell itself. The flames of this power are greatly feared among the kindred and the caster is no exception, they must first suppress their Beast’s fear of flame before they can call on this ritual’s power.
        Ingredients: One piece of unused coal and a small brass bowl.
        Process: The bowl must be filled with the caster’s blood piece of coal must be heated until it is glowing hot, the coal must then be quenched in the bowl’s blood.
        System: At the completion of the process but before making a Ritual roll the caster must make a terror frenzy roll as though burned (difficulty 2). If the caster fails they destroy the ingredients as they flee and the ritual must be started again from scratch. If they succeed they proceed with the Ritual roll, upon success the coal absorbs the blood and contains the flame within, turning red in the process. At any point thereafter until the next dawn the caster may crush the infused coal and gain the ability to conjure and project fire for the duration of the scene (the conjured flames do not burn the caster and the caster does not need to make a terror frenzy roll regarding their own conjured flames however fires started by this ability are normal fire and can trigger frenzy normally). The caster may attempt to project these flames as a ranged weapon using Resolve + Blood sorcery that inflicts aggravated damage to both mortals and vampires (on a critical win it inflicts +1 weapon damage). If not consumed before the next dawn the infused coal crumbles to a useless red powder.

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        • #5
          One Thousand Years

          ​Thanks!

          Nesky and Darkfoxdev

          But doesn't being able to conjure fire becomes less meaningful if one cannot do it on demand? I can see rituals to create fire traps and enchanted fiery weapons. But does it really make sense to have to perform a minutes long (or even hours long) ritual to set an enemy ablaze? If it was to target an enemy you cannot see, far away, ok, a ritual makes sense. But magical fire makes more sense as a readily available weapon...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by valismedsen View Post
            One Thousand Years

            ​Thanks!

            Nesky and Darkfoxdev

            But doesn't being able to conjure fire becomes less meaningful if one cannot do it on demand? I can see rituals to create fire traps and enchanted fiery weapons. But does it really make sense to have to perform a minutes long (or even hours long) ritual to set an enemy ablaze? If it was to target an enemy you cannot see, far away, ok, a ritual makes sense. But magical fire makes more sense as a readily available weapon...
            I'd generally agree, and frankly removing the limit of the prepared ritual expires at night for both essence of air and my lure of flames take would honestly appeal to me but i will acknowledge a level of game balance being enforced through this contrivance, as to having it as a permanent discipline... maybe not. Alot of the paths were just rituals you could use quickly and seemed to be made mostly to add neat new powers (looking at you green path), honestly I like the renewed focus on making blood sorcery about blood and all the cool powers derived from that being made ritual based, It helps renforce the usefulness of rituals and their importance to blood sorcerers.

            I'll also acknowledge that lure of flames was always a little weird as a vampire power went, not only was it's application highly limited (hence the criticism, deserved or not, regarding tremere flamethrowers where they put all their points into this one combat power) but it was also kinda weird for vampire to have an entire path concerning using one of the two major weaknesses of vampires, hence my ritual version requiring a frenzy roll as apart of the ritual.

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            • #7
              Personally I have always thought that some rituals should have Path prerequisites. That would mean that rituals do have a sort of EXP cost to them; to have a powerful ritual you might need 4 in path of blood and 2 in the path of movement of the mind. You can't just learn the ritual with Thaumaturgy 4.

              And Lure of Flames needs to be a path. I don't think it works as a ritual.

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              • #8
                @Darkfoxdev

                Duh, I hadn't quite realized how all Blood Sorcery powers are blood-related powers now. How obvious! I... like that!

                Still, using Paths as Rituals adds the necessity for some forethought on the part of the blood mage vampire. That ritual has to become something you do every night, if you're paranoid, or at least every time you go out/expect to find trouble...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by valismedsen View Post
                  @Darkfoxdev

                  Duh, I hadn't quite realized how all Blood Sorcery powers are blood-related powers now. How obvious! I... like that!

                  Still, using Paths as Rituals adds the necessity for some forethought on the part of the blood mage vampire. That ritual has to become something you do every night, if you're paranoid, or at least every time you go out/expect to find trouble...
                  Hmm paranoid, always expecting trouble from those around them, always spending their nights dabbling with sorceries they won't explain... sound like a certain clan we know of?

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                  • #10
                    I like it as a ritual. I also like that Darkfoxdev gave it a limit that it lasts until dawn, which prevents a thaumaturgist from making a "pocket full of shells." It's still significant and potent because it lasts an entire scene.

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                    • #11
                      Actually, I like your ritual as well, Darkfoxdev.

                      Also, there is a thin-blood alchemy power that is just like movement of the mind. That also worked as a ritual, IMO.

                      These Paths as Rituals will be a hard sell to my players, though...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by valismedsen View Post
                        Actually, I like your ritual as well, Darkfoxdev.

                        Also, there is a thin-blood alchemy power that is just like movement of the mind. That also worked as a ritual, IMO.

                        These Paths as Rituals will be a hard sell to my players, though...
                        Change is hard, alot of what I see on v5 is rebellion against the changes made to long standing parts of the game (or it's edginess which is more fair IMO), and honestly if we hadn't just had V20 I'd probably be right there with them. And don't get me started on far reach, seriously right after the game said blood alchemy couldn't duplicate rituals they gave one of the most longstanding thaumaturgy powers to blood alchemy meaning it wouldn't make sense for it to be an official ritual. The heck!

                        But overall after I got over seeing the change to one of my favorite mechanics I managed to see some good reasons for the switch from paths to rituals. I will say it feels more evocative, when most of a thaumaturge's arsenal was Paths it did sometimes feel like it was undermining the amount of reading and experimenting they needed to do. Honestly my biggest problem now is bringing in mages, demons and the like without pulling in mechanics for other gamelines, being able to give a tree spirit the green path or a demon dark thaumaturgy saved me alot of hassle.
                        Last edited by Darkfoxdev; 08-29-2018, 06:24 PM.

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                        • #13
                          I think that other "Paths" will be replaced with rituals like Darkfoxdev 's or imbued items, like a ring that gives you the ability to cast (Lure of Flames) for a Rouse check.
                          But I worry that it will make Tremere feel more like D&D mages in order for them to get access to the powers they used to have.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                            I think that other "Paths" will be replaced with rituals like Darkfoxdev 's or imbued items, like a ring that gives you the ability to cast (Lure of Flames) for a Rouse check.
                            But I worry that it will make Tremere feel more like D&D mages in order for them to get access to the powers they used to have.
                            Thats a pretty excellent solution, if I may say so! You parting comment also reminds me a little of the Brujah opinion of the Tremere in Revised Edition, "It's like someone Embraced a bunch of D&D geeks and told them their spells were real."

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                            • #15
                              Darkfoxdev i created a similar version of your Lure of flames to my assamite sorcerers, past weeks.

                              Summon the Lure of Flames (LV4)
                              Ingredients:: Blood from an angry source, Gunpowder, nettles and iron powder.

                              Process of Incantation: The thaumaturge creates a Seal with a Kanjis or Aztec signs on a paper, or makes a red tattoo on his hand, or an alchemically treated string embebed with vitae wrapped in a rusty nail, etc. He sings Ra, Xango, the Saint Michael the Archangel, or any other deity of fire. Whatever his paradigm imposes. Like a Warding, the test is done when ritual is activated.

                              System: Holding the seals in his hand, the caster can mentally activate him by testing Intelligence + Blood Sorcery. needing 4 hits. These successes form a pool. He spend can each success of the pool to cause a point of damage aggravated by fire. He aim the shots with wits + occcult, and the defender can dodge with Dex+Athetics. Each shot, hit or miss, spends a success obtained in the ritual. When an attack hits more than defense, the attacker can spend more saved hits, up to a maximum of 3 points. Once a shot succeeds, the target has 50% chance to cath a fire (roll a dice, fire if 6+)

                              The seal is consumed when the ritual is activated. Caster's hand is engulfed in flames all along duration, breaking the masquerade. The fire is harmless on his hand until be liberated to attacks. The caster can stores the successes of the spool for one scene or until end of night. If he holds for more than a scene, he needs to score a superficial damage to willpower. If holding a fire until next sunrise,he will get one point aggravated damage to his health (skin burned in Hand).
                              I don't know if it is very intelligible. but i put the mechanic of pool to balance with the few other aggravated damage powers (Potence 5, Blood Boil, Baal's Caress). I like your idea of the Rottchrek test, and i inclined to adopt it

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