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V5 Blood Sorcery Paths?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Nesky View Post
    I think that if thaumaturgy it were less powerful in combat (maintaining all powers "out of combat" whit rituals), at least 95% of Tremere's player would change Clan.

    All people that i Know that using Tremere, play only because they are OP.
    Honestly I always wanted to play a vampire wizard and really get into the mysticism of vampires but the tremere were so stuck up and the paths so bizarrely divergent that I could never get into them. House Carna and the changes to Blood Sorcery actually make me want to play a Tremere now.

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    • #32
      I agree, I really like House Carna but even more so I like the new status quo for the Tremere. Hunting down the lost lore and magic of your own clan makes for some very interesting ideas for Tremere characters. Also, the clan is more vulnerable then ever which is how I always like to portrait the Tremere, yes they got a lot of magic but they are also more vulnerable then they let on. The fact that their HQ could be taken out by humans of all threats says everything about the vulnerability of the clan despite their blood sorcery.

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      • #33
        Never played Tremere, but they’re probably my secret favorite clan. Not because of the powers per se, but the idea of an order of vampire sorcerers with blood magic. I think they’re even more appealing now, as the monolithic structure was never part of the appeal. Nor the many Thaumaturgy paths, honestly. Restricting them to rituals is fine with me.

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        • #34
          I think turning a number of powers into rituals add to the flavor of the Tremere, and is more in keeping with their Hermetic origins. They delve into ancient texts written in Latin, Greek or find ancient scrolls or clay tablets in some ancient language that unlocks some extraordinary power. That really works for me. Much better than Tremere running around with the equivalent of "magic missile.". I

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Nesky View Post
            I think that if thaumaturgy it were less powerful in combat (maintaining all powers "out of combat" whit rituals), at least 95% of Tremere's player would change Clan.

            All people that i Know that using Tremere, play only because they are OP.
            Good?
            If it balances something OP, then the game will (Likely) be better for it.

            We've got an ST that won't let Tremere be played, and dislikes Thaum in general because of the OP nature. Balancing that would give us more options.

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            • #36
              I was reading through Rites of Blood and found this little tidbit
              Originally posted by Rites of Blood p 22
              A number of useful Thaumaturgy rituals create mystical artifacts that allow non-thaumaturges access to blood magic without the prerequisite training and sacrifice. Sometimes these trinkets are given as rewards to outsiders that entice them to remain loyal to the Tremere. The downside to handing out these treasures is that another blood magician could use the resonance link inherent in the artifact to strike against the creator via Sympathy and Identity (p. 132-135). If an Apprentice grants her trust too easily and one of her gifts is used against her, the Regent typically sees this as a valuable lesson learned.
              So there is apparently fluff that supports the idea of trinkets that allow power use, not that I've ever seen any rules to create them.

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              • #37
                I love the Tremere in V5 and their thaumaturgy.

                Tremere in V20 and Revised was really overpowered in my eyes and really catered to munchkins who just wants characters who excell at everything. Especially V20 broke the game with players making Tremere to be powerhouses that could do whatever they wanted.

                My GM restricted my picks of Thaumaturgy to only the old path of Blood to start with and ifI find tomes later I canlearn the old quietus things. Maybe in the future I will be able to find old paths (once he has converted them). But to me, Path of Blood is mystical and feared as well as quite versatile as it is in V5 without being the tool to create busses to throw at people or gaining extra dice due to inner focus. It is balanced against the other disciplines as it should be and not a "I win the game" thing that caters to powergamers.

                This is just my opinions and not an attack on any poster


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                • #38
                  I don´t like V5 blood magic neither , the base idea is good and it needed a nerf but the nerf hammer fell to hard on Tremere and ended eliminating 90% of the content making it lose it´s versatibility.

                  Heck blood alchemy feels more like magick than thaumaturgy itself and it doesnt make sense for thin blood to posses it becuase it requires them to store occult knowledge over time wich is something they don´t have at all wich is why previous editions made them zpecial "wild cards" by giving them the ability to create their own disciplines and maybe a bloodline if they commited diablerie.

                  Now what I do is make all paths rituals who require a sacrifice some are easy to cast becuase they may only require blood or some thing you can have in your pockets so they can be used in combat or when the situation calls while others require more preparation or some time to work.

                  This allows blood sorcerers to be balanced but also more versatile becuase they no longer need to follow the linear progresion of paths it also makes being a Tremere more inmersive becuase rituals feel like actual magic instead of another superpower/pseudo discipline.
                  Last edited by Leandro16; 05-16-2019, 07:49 PM.


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                  • #39
                    While I prefer the idea of making path powers people want into rituals I've been also thinking that lure of Flames was more difficult than most. I've come to a compromise that I think I would use in my games that still uses a ritual.

                    Just have a ritual that gives targeted blood path powers a fire component, so Blood Boil would become an engulfing flame for instance. Then add a trick you can ignite your own blood which is how you could do things like ignite candles without a match and keeping that quality that speaks to vampire lore/media. Make the ritual last the night and there you go.

                    This way if there are other paths that don't work as rituals you can have the same effect but say that it can't work while another similar ritual is modifying your path. Personally I've always preferred the idea of Movement of the Mind being a Discipline of its own (you need to know magic to fly as a non-bat vampire) but you could modify this as well as anything with blood can be moved around and the trick could be moving a small object if you can get your blood on it somehow.

                    It's blood magic so blood should always be important and magic in general should always have some level of effort/sacrifice to it (whether literal or figurative). My problems with Thaum previously were how little blood played a part in blood magic and how easy it always seemed to be with little tradeoff


                    "The only consistent wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" ~ Socrates

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Imthestein View Post
                      It's blood magic so blood should always be important and magic in general should always have some level of effort/sacrifice to it (whether literal or figurative). My problems with Thaum previously were how little blood played a part in blood magic and how easy it always seemed to be with little tradeoff
                      This, exactly. My biggest two problems with Thaumaturgy were how overpowered it became over time compared to other disciplines, and how it lost its connection to, well, blood. It's supposed to be a corrupted, twisted form of magic that draws on stolen blood and life-force instead of the primal energies of the universe, which is why both vampires and mages find the Tremere creepy and suspicious.

                      I personally wouldn't bring back Lure of Flames, just because fire is utterly antithetical to Vitae, so using Vitae to make fire feels thematically weird. It's like a character who specializes in ice and water powers suddenly using waterbending to throw a fireball without explanation. But for all the other paths, I'd say a larger element of sacrifice and tradeoff (making Thaum high-risk, high-cost, but high-reward) would make them fit in a lot better with V5's systems.

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                      • #41
                        The only reason I'm ok with Lure of Flames is because of things like Dracula movies with candles suddenly igniting and Queen of the Damned (quality of the movie aside) causing others to combust on the spot. To me, if you see something in media or lore then I'm open to it existing as a power in however way it needs to be balanced.

                        But yeah, I definitely agree about Blood Magic


                        "The only consistent wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" ~ Socrates

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Imthestein View Post
                          The only reason I'm ok with Lure of Flames is because of things like Dracula movies with candles suddenly igniting and Queen of the Damned (quality of the movie aside) causing others to combust on the spot. To me, if you see something in media or lore then I'm open to it existing as a power in however way it needs to be balanced.
                          Fair, but Dracula and Akasha also don't take immediate agg damage from fire and sunlight (or even seem to take any more damage than humans would). To each their own.

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                          • #43
                            I don't mind the changes to Thaumaturgy per se, but I really loved all the mythologically inspired and exotic magic styles like Setite Sorcery, Dur-An-Ki, Wanga etc, and to me, something important to World of Darkness is lost without them, as I want my Vampire to be exotic, ancient and mysterious. Especially Setite Sorcery felt really important to the Setites as a concept, and they feel very stymied without their sorcerers, whose magic had all the ancient egyptian necromancy, mystery and corruption themes that their clan should have. Blood Sorcery + a plethora of rituals might suffice, and feel appropriate, for the Tremere and even the Assamites, but it certainly doesn't for the Setites and other undead sorcerers.

                            It should be an easy fix though...just make Akhu/Dur-An-Ki/Wanga another discipline with a different theme to its primary path, and let it share some rituals with Blood Sorcery and have others that are unique to it.
                            Last edited by Natsymir; 05-17-2019, 10:27 PM.

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                            • #44
                              For that, I'd do what certain disciplines in V20 did: make them rituals tied to one of the clan's other disciplines. In other words, you don't have to buy dots in Sorcery separately (since they don't get the Thaum/Quietus blood-manipulation powers), you can learn rituals that attach to your dots of Serpentis/Protean.

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                              • #45
                                Lure of the Flames is actually pretty easy to convert in to a ritual just make the ritual ingredient Blood becuase it is used as a fuel maybe add as a requirement having charcoal in mouth or something that simbolices combustion.


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