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Vampire 5th edition is attacked from all sides

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  • Vampire 5th edition is attacked from all sides

    I don't know if everyone one is aware of this but V5 seems to be under attacked by the left and right. I'm sure you've heard of the attack from some guy claiming Vampire had coded alt-right message in it and that was the reason why we got that "don't play if your a nazi" post. But I've recently seen videos like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tUL6VtKFxc

    So apparently V5 has alt-right messages and is also a bastion of SJW propaganda as well. *rollseyes

    I guess no one reads the "styles of play" section in the book. Where its pointed out players shouldn't be guilt tripping each other for the actions of their characters. That is hardly the advice of an SJW game. Its just depressing that people are throwing out misinformation and turning away potential new players with lies.

    How did this game end up getting attacked by the left and right? Sigh.

    I suppose the only bright spot is that these attacks tend to be in echo chammers and heard by people that likely wouldn't give the game a try anyway.
    Last edited by Wissenschaft; 09-01-2018, 09:53 PM.

  • #2
    It's because of the bullshit politicization of punk ideas.

    The Illuminati, evil conspiracies, and so on are all supporting the Right and their theories!

    The rich vs. poor, oppressed minorities, and systematic corruption is the Left!

    Eesh.

    Punk is forever.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-01-2018, 10:12 PM.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      Yep, and if you play DnD you are worshiping the devil and will go crazy and kill your friends. When I first started playing RPGs that was the normal thoughts about anyone who played it and they where very wrong. This is just a game. nothing more nothing less. The authors are not trying to tell us something in secret unless it is what is happening in the Gehenna war or which Antediluvians are dead.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
        It's because of the bullshit politicization of punk ideas.

        The Illuminati, evil conspiracies, and so on are all supporting the Right and their theories!

        The rich vs. poor, oppressed minorities, and systematic corruption is the Left!

        Eesh.

        Punk is forever.
        When I wasgrowing up, "punk" was a political position - and I'm old enough to remember it when it began!

        It's anti-establishment, anti-authoritarian, non-conformist, DIY, aggressive and iconoclastic.

        How the fuck is that not political? Yes, it can be interpreted in different ways, and there are right and left wing interpretations of it, but the sub-culture has always been provocative.

        Anyway, I don't think anybody should have a mind to what reviewers say - especially if they can only obsess about 'SJWs' all the time. V5 rocks! Vampire was a controversial game in the 1990s, and it's proving to be controversial in the modern nights too, albeit in a different political climate. Plus ça change!
        Last edited by Trippy; 09-02-2018, 01:42 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Trippy View Post
          When I was growing up, "punk" was a political position. It's anti-establishment, anti-authoritarian, non-conformist, DIY, non-aggressive and iconoclastic.

          How the fuck is that not political?
          Definition of political: relating to the government or the public affairs of a country

          So a movement/ideology that is anti-establishment and all about being outside of power structures is somehow political? o.O

          *sorry, I could help myself but argue this. lol Its not a big deal.
          Last edited by Wissenschaft; 09-02-2018, 12:59 AM.

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          • #6
            The guy talking in this video is hilariously entertaining.

            The read through of V5 is depressingly ridiculous.

            If I showed up to a table and my ST handed me pieces of colored plastic to indicate my "trigger" warnings, I would take the chips and toss them over my shoulder!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wissenschaft View Post

              Definition of political: relating to the government or the public affairs of a country

              So a movement/ideology that is anti-establishment and all about being outside of power structures is somehow political? o.O

              *sorry, I could help myself but argue this. lol Its not a big deal.
              Actually, the etymological root of 'political' comes from 'polis' meaning the way people within cities interact (possibly what you don't get if you just quote something off a googled online dictionary!). Any social group can have politics, and therefore any conflict between an establishment and an anti-establishment group is inherently political. If you want to argue then fine, but be prepared to know what you are talking about.
              Last edited by Trippy; 09-02-2018, 01:37 AM.

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              • #8
                Politics happens when you have more than 2 people involved. By benefit of having people involved you have politics. I'm with Trippy on this.


                "The only consistent wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" ~ Socrates

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Trippy View Post

                  Actually, the etymological root of 'political' comes from 'polis' meaning the way people within cities interact (possibly what you don't get if you just quote something off a googled online dictionary!). Any social group can have politics, and therefore any conflict between an establishment and an anti-establishment group is inherently political. If you want to argue then fine, but be prepared to know what you are talking about.
                  By that definition everything is life is political. THERES NO ESCAPE. Also, the root of words is not always indicative of how the word is actually used. I think that definition is too vast. The word starts to become meaningless because it applies to everything.

                  So no, I don't agree. :P

                  Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                  The guy talking in this video is hilariously entertaining.

                  The read through of V5 is depressingly ridiculous.

                  If I showed up to a table and my ST handed me pieces of colored plastic to indicate my "trigger" warnings, I would take the chips and toss them over my shoulder!
                  Where is that in the book anyway? I most have missed it. I feel like its just a silly suggestion thats being blown out of proportion. I guess the video is hilarious if you already hate V5 and just want to enjoy someone raging on it. Do people really comb through a book like this just to make a big deal about a minor silly suggestion? I guess so.

                  Edit: I found it. Its in the Appendix.
                  Last edited by Wissenschaft; 09-02-2018, 03:07 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wissenschaft View Post

                    By that definition everything is life is political. THERES NO ESCAPE. Also, the root of words is not always indicative of how the word is actually used. I think that definition is too vast. The word starts to become meaningless because it applies to everything.

                    So no, I don't agree. :P



                    Where is that in the book anyway? I most have missed it. I feel like its just a silly suggestion thats being blown out of proportion. I guess the video is hilarious if you already hate V5 and just want to enjoy someone raging on it.
                    To quote Skunk Anansie: 'Yes it's f**king political / Everything's political.'

                    Deciding not to engage with politics is itself a political act (and really quite impossible unless you're a hermit, although even then, it's arguably a political choice...).

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                    • #11
                      I still disagree. :P Going any further is just taking this off topic so I'll refrain.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wissenschaft View Post

                        By that definition everything is life is political. THERES NO ESCAPE. Also, the root of words is not always indicative of how the word is actually used. I think that definition is too vast. The word starts to become meaningless because it applies to everything.

                        So no, I don't agree. :P
                        Whether you agree or not is somewhat irrelevant when you are wrong.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wissenschaft View Post
                          I don't know if everyone one is aware of this but V5 seems to be under attacked by the left and right. I'm sure you've heard of the attack from some guy claiming Vampire had coded alt-right message in it and that was the reason why we got that "don't play if your a nazi" post. But I've recently seen videos like this:

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tUL6VtKFxc

                          So apparently V5 has alt-right messages and is also a bastion of SJW propaganda as well. *rollseyes

                          I guess no one reads the "styles of play" section in the book. Where its pointed out players shouldn't be guilt tripping each other for the actions of their characters. That is hardly the advice of an SJW game. Its just depressing that people are throwing out misinformation and turning away potential new players with lies.

                          How did this game end up getting attacked by the left and right? Sigh.

                          I suppose the only bright spot is that these attacks tend to be in echo chammers and heard by people that likely wouldn't give the game a try anyway.
                          A V5 book did have a coded alt-right message in it though. Coded message being "1488" as one of sample die roll results. And they initially called Brujah clan weakness "Triggered".

                          It also didn't help nuWW's case that they changed some of Holden Shearer's work on Werewolf to include trans and homophobia, as well as hiring ZackS and Rein DOT Hagen. Not just hiring though, but actively taking a defensive position and calling everyone accusing Zack a liar.

                          Actions speak louder than words my man, and nuWW took a lot of horrendous actions.
                          Last edited by Kammerer; 09-02-2018, 04:35 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
                            A V5 book did have a coded alt-right message in it though. Coded message being "1488" as one of sample die roll results. And they initially called Brujah clan weakness "Triggered".

                            It also didn't help nuWW's case that they changed some of Holden Shearer's work on Werewolf to include trans and homophobia, as well as hiring ZackS and Rein DOT Hagen. Not just hiring though, but actively taking a defensive position and calling everyone accusing Zack a liar.

                            Actions speak louder than words my man, and nuWW took a lot of horrendous actions.
                            I think you need to be careful about interpreting something that seemed to me to be entirely coincidental - as a 'coded message'. Similarly the word 'triggered', whilst adopted as a slur by the alt-right, does not immediately imply an association with them in it's use. The word is used in Unknown Armies too, in that game's mental tracking system, yet I don't see people claiming that game is somehow a coded message for fascism.

                            I'd also say that both Zack Smith and Mark Rein-Hagen have totally refuted claims against them. In the case of the latter, who actually created the entire World of Darkness series of games in the first place and who evidently has a left wing slant in most of his life's work, I'd say that the attacks on him were both hysterical and utterly bogus.

                            Actions do speak louder than words, but the fact that White Wolf listened to the concerns and addressed them, both in print and live video, should put an end to the issue. If people want to continue making controversy out of nothing, then it tells us more about them than it does about White Wolf.
                            Last edited by Trippy; 09-02-2018, 05:04 AM.

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                            • #15
                              I highly doubt that when the nuWW team sat around the table, they wrote up a question on the white board, "What is our mission?" and then answered it with, "Pack as many subliminal messages into our products as possible, to brainwash TTRPG players into adopting evil values!" presumably followed up with, "And then...conquer the world!" I'm pretty sure the real answer was more like, "Revamp a tabletop vampire game in a way that will hopefully appeal to our audience and sell well."

                              Look, it sounds like highly politically-active people on both sides here are digging for reasons to be offended. Regardless of what you think of the team personally, it's illogical business-wise to make a product that has the specific purpose of making select groups of people feel bad about themselves. That would just be dumb. Companies that do that go out of business, because that's how a free market works, and companies don't like going out of business. nuWW is a company. They want to make some money, ideally though a product they can also enjoy working on. They wanted to make a game that people would buy and also enjoy. Are some of their personal political views going to seep into the work? Duh. But apparently people can't even agree on which side those political views lean toward, so I'm content to take the games at face value and not speculate about what the creators might think about the real world in their private lives. I play this stuff to get away from the real world anyway.

                              I do think the concern over these "attacks" on V5 is a little hyperbolic? It's hardly being attacked on all sides. A scant handful of people online created articles/videos bashing the game because of politics. That's going to happen in any fandom - whenever something attracts thousands of fans, it's statistically inevitable that some will be the outspoken types who ruffle feathers one way or another. Don't let the few fans who leave a bad taste in your mouth ruin the game for you, and I say this as someone who doesn't enjoy V5 for myself and who is a bit turned off by some of its more political content. It's okay to ignore naysayers and just like the game for its own sake, if you do like it.


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