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  • What if EVERY clan had their own unique discipline?

    This might be a fun topic I was thinking about the Gangrel and Protean and it made me think, what if it were their own unique discipline...then what if everyone had their own? For sh*ts and giggles I think we can come up with some ideas-even make up some new ones. So for the Camarilla it would Brujah, Gangrel (despite the exodus), Nosferatu, Toreador, Ventrue...if we assume the Malkavians have Dementation and Tremere kept Thaumaturgy as their own. For the Nosferatu I was thinking of a discipline along the lines of the Gift of Morpheus thaumaturgy path. Kinda gives them the boogeyman/freddy Krueger edge. The creepy monster that shows up at the end of your bed and haunts your dreams (like an ex-wife)

  • #2
    "What if EVERY clan had their own unique discipline?"

    It's called Vampire: The Requiem. >_>

    But for serious? I've thought about this a few times, especially in regards to remixing the whole set so each clan has a power only they have inherent access to. This is the rough list I made ages ago:

    Assamites: Same (Quietus)
    Brujah: ???
    Followers of Set: Animalism, Obfuscate, Serpentis
    Gangrel: Same (Protean)
    Giovanni: Auspex, Necromancy, Potence
    Lasombra: Celerity, Obtenebration, Potence
    Malkavian: Same (Dementation)
    Nosferatu: Daimoinon, Obfuscate, Potence
    Ravnos: Same (Chimerstry)
    Toreador: Same (Presence)
    Tremere: Auspex, Obfuscate, Thaumaturgy
    Tzimisce: Same (Vicissitude)
    Ventrue: Auspex, Dominate, Fortitude (if only because there's a precedent)

    I considered making Auspex into someone's proprietary Discipline, but that would require changing way too many clans (Auspex always got thrown in when nothing else fit).

    Daimoinon isn't a terribly elegant solution for the Nosferatu, but I couldn't think of anything better back in the day.

    The Brujah present an interesting problem, because their archetype doesn't really lend itself to a particular special power. Temporis is a possibility, but only because it's got the weird Trujah association. It might be interesting to swap out Presence for Fortitude. They don't get a unique power, but they do get to be extra good at fightin'.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 11-17-2013, 05:54 AM.



    Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

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    • #3
      Oops, I've never read Requiem. Haven't had the opportunity really, but I kinda want to now.
      As for the Brujah, I was thinking of something along the lines of the Thaumaturgy Path of Mars. The Path of Mars

      A primarily Sabbat Path that focuses on martial prowess and combat leadership. (published in Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition)
      • War Cry: Adds 1 to Courage and Willpower
      • •• Strike True: Melee/Brawl attack automatically succeeds as a 1 success attack
      • ••• Wind Dance: Multiple Dodges do not require splitting dice pool
      • •••• Fearless Heart: All attributes increased by 1
      • ••••• Comrades at Arms: Use previous Path powers on your allies.
      I like the idea of the power being a war time buffing ability. And it could/would be tweaked up a bit as a discipline. It seems to fit their MO pretty nicely.
      And of course making the "common" disciplines into Unique clan disciplines narrows down what characters would be able to learn/invest in as they progress, so I think making up new ones would fit a little better. But that list is almost exactly what I had in mind as well, except for the Nosferatu. That's why I started looking towards different Thaumaturgy paths that could be tweaked into a bit stronger disciplines. Which makes it challenging for both the Toreador and Ventrue since Presence and Dominate fit so well. Im going to bust out the 2 Blood Magic books and see what might fit their style. I might even try a quick game with the guys---offering new optional clan disciplines (it seems most of my players always pick a clan with a special discipline)
      Last edited by KaiserMonkey; 11-17-2013, 06:37 AM.

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      • #4
        Just give the Brujah Warrior Valeren. The Salubri are lame anyway.


        I'm a professor! Why is no one listening to me?!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by KaiserMonkey View Post
          Oops, I've never read Requiem. Haven't had the opportunity really, but I kinda want to now.
          One of the biggest design changes (apart from fewer clans and more sects) was the idea that each clan had a "unique" discipline, that only they could learn at in-clan costs. It firms up the archetypes significantly. Requiem is worth checking out, especially given that it's about to get a brand new rule set.

          Originally posted by KaiserMonkey View Post
          But that list is almost exactly what I had in mind as well, except for the Nosferatu.
          I'm glad I was mostly on the same page! But yeah, Nos was a total shot in the dark. I need to look at that Thaumaturgy path.

          Originally posted by KaiserMonkey View Post
          That's why I started looking towards different Thaumaturgy paths that could be tweaked into a bit stronger disciplines. Which makes it challenging for both the Toreador and Ventrue since Presence and Dominate fit so well. Im going to bust out the 2 Blood Magic books and see what might fit their style. I might even try a quick game with the guys---offering new optional clan disciplines (it seems most of my players always pick a clan with a special discipline)
          Ventrue, Toreador, Brujah, and Nosferatu got the short end of the stick. Not that they don't have great powers, but everybody else got their powers, too. However, I'd keep Dominate for the Ventrue, at least. It's such a powerful discipline, and I think it would fit if the Ventrue were the only ones who had quick access to it. But keep us posted if you find something neat in the blood sorcery books!



          Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

          VtR: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2ndTricks of the DamnedBtP: Secrets of VancouverCofD: The CabinActual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
          Podcast: The Breakup

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
            It's called Vampire: The Requiem. >_>
            That's quite a bit easier to manage when you've only got 5 clans, as opposed to 13.

            Anyway, on to the matter:

            First off I thought, I'd keep the three physical common among all Kindred (cause, yeah) and dole out the rest on an in-clan basis. Sure, it might make clans seem pretty similar, but that's a tradeoff, I suppose.

            So, here goes:

            Assamites: Potence, Celerity, Quietus
            Brujah: Potence, Celerity, Presence
            Followers of Set: Celerity, Potence, Serpentis
            Gangrel: Potence, Fortitude, Protean
            Giovanni: Necromancy, Potence, Fortitude
            Lasombra: Celerity, Obtenebration, Potence
            Malkavian: Celerity, Fortitude, Dementation
            Nosferatu: Fortitude, Obfuscate, Potence
            Ravnos: Fortitude, Celerity, Chimerstry
            Toreador: Celerity, Potence, Auspex
            Tremere: Fortitude, Celerity, Thaumaturgy
            Tzimisce: Fortitude, Celerity, Vicissitude
            Ventrue: Potence, Dominate, Fortitude
            Last edited by HOD; 11-17-2013, 08:05 AM.

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            • #7
              I'd be tempted to say that things would be a lot more messed up; the clan-specific disciplines are some of the more thematically-confused elements of VtM.

              I like HOD's list for the most part, although Animalism has been completely shunted out. I'd suggest making that the Gangrel signature discipline, rather than Protean. Yes, it takes a good amount of punch out of Gangrel combat, but Protean is one of the more confused clan-specific disciplines.

              Also, props for having the Tzim and Tremere out-of-clan disciplines identical. Shows their "lineage" well.

              Not sure about Toreador having Auspex as their unique discipline, though. Presence strikes me as their main discipline, and doesn't fit too well with the Brujah. This does leave a hole on their third discipline, but is giving them all the "physical" disciplines (or even making Celerity their unique discipline, given its link to Temporis?) a bad thing?


              A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
              Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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              • #8
                Well, simply put, Animalism was the 'odd man out', so to speak. It was either leave that one or one of the others out, or break up the "rule". If anything, I would exchange Animalism for Vicissitude for the Tszimisce, making them all Old Clan in a sense.

                I can see how one would think Presence is the Toreador and not Brujah one. But if you really think about it, what signifies the Toreador ? What is their weakness linked to ? Influencing people ? No, it is about observing their surroundings....Auspex.

                Furthermore, if you have Presence as the Toreador one, what does that leave the Brujah ? Animalism ? Doesn't quite fit, does it ? Presence on the other hand, feeds the image of the Brujah as rabble-rousers and ideagogues, which is pretty firmly their stereotype if one ignores the "punkass basher" one.

                Giving them all physical would undermine the whole basis of the system (physical disciplines are inherent to all Kindred, and the clans all have one signature that noone else has).

                I suppose one could give them Temporis, but personally I hate that discipline with a fury born of a thousand suns, so I'd rather not.
                Last edited by HOD; 11-17-2013, 10:28 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HOD View Post
                  If anything, I would exchange Animalism for Vicissitude for the Tszimisce, making them all Old Clan in a sense.
                  And make Vicissitude like Koldunic Sorcery in terms of learning/buying? That could really work, makes the Old Clan make a lot more sense.

                  Originally posted by HOD View Post
                  Furthermore, if you have Presence as the Toreador one, what does that leave the Brujah ? Animalism ? Doesn't quite fit, does it ? Presence on the other hand, feeds the image of the Brujah as rabble-rousers and ideagogues, which is pretty firmly their stereotype if one ignores the "punkass basher" one.
                  Yes, it could be a decent way of showing the remnant of the old orators of the clan etc.


                  A Not-Quite-Newb's Read-Through of Ex3 - my thoughts, notes and trials and tribulations with the Exalted 3rd edition rules.
                  Ex3 Reference Materials - currently includes an ST screen, common actions sheet, weapons reference sheet, character creation summary and mortal QCs reference sheet.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Xerxes View Post
                    And make Vicissitude like Koldunic Sorcery in terms of learning/buying? That could really work, makes the Old Clan make a lot more sense.
                    Or nixing it all together. Crazy disease from space never really appealed much to me, anyway.

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                    • #11
                      Brujah - Temporis
                      Nosferatu - Requiem Nightmare
                      Toreador - Blood and Smoke Majesty.
                      Ventrue - ???

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HOD View Post
                        That's quite a bit easier to manage when you've only got 5 clans, as opposed to 13.
                        Indeed! VTM does get close, though. If you ignore bloodlines--who raise more questions than they answer, really--all but the Brujah, Nosferatu, Toreador, and Ventrue have a unique power. Maybe it's less that it's harder to manage and more that the design philosophy changed? After the Camarilla seven, the rest of the thirteen were given unique powers, but they all came after the core was published. Perhaps if the game had gestated a bit longer, the concept would have been firmer.

                        Anyway, topic at hand. If you wanted to do something really outside the box, you could alter it so that each clan only has one inherent discipline, with all other powers out-of-clan. You could also choose a discipline that each clan is bad at learning, whether it's a proprietary discipline or a common one. For example, I can imagine Brujah having difficulty learning Dominate, or a Lasombra not being able to "get" Auspex.



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                        VtR: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2ndTricks of the DamnedBtP: Secrets of VancouverCofD: The CabinActual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                        Podcast: The Breakup

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                        • #13
                          Well, Dominate Malks (the standard) don't either.

                          And I very much doubt more time would have resulted in what you imagine. Though you'd have to ask one of the original dev's about that, of course.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HOD View Post
                            Well, Dominate Malks (the standard) don't either.
                            I know, but it's interesting that they moved toward giving them a unique power. I don't really think of them as the standard, but only got into VTM after Gehenna was published.

                            Originally posted by HOD View Post
                            And I very much doubt more time would have resulted in what you imagine. Though you'd have to ask one of the original dev's about that, of course.
                            Oh, obviously. But who knows? It might have been an afterthought that didn't get incorporated into the game till Requiem. I'm just musing. I think the more likely answer is that the most of the other clans were originally exotic antagonists, and needed something (i.e., magic) to define them. I still don't know that it's all that hard to manage, considering how many crazy Disciplines there really are.



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                            VtR: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2ndTricks of the DamnedBtP: Secrets of VancouverCofD: The CabinActual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                            Podcast: The Breakup

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                            • #15
                              You do not miss a discipline that deals with the Nosferatu Fear? I think thematically perfect.

                              In the current rules Celerity and Temporis has the same theme, only that something more focused on philosophy Brujah.

                              The same principle can be applied to Ventrue with something like domination that controls whether the Blood Ties, and not the mind. And for the Toreador with something that directly controls the passions, and does not handle your feelings.

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