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What if EVERY clan had their own unique discipline?

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  • #31
    Nightmare for Nosferatu seems like a good idea in general. Others are harder. Telgar's comment about Valeran for Brujah isn't bad.

    I have found (general comment on the disdvantage of not having one, not commenting in any negative way on the thought exercise) that the biggest advantage to not having a unique is you have easier access to more discipline techniques. There are a lot of them, and most of them use the core set of discipline everyone gets access to. A Toreador has far more to choose from using only his Clan Disciplines then a Setite, who still has more options then a Samedi.

    The 8 Clans with a unique Clan Discipline, due to Dark Ages, do have better options then just the list for Masquerade, leaving mostly Bloodlines with fewer options. So as far as Discipline techniques go, three common disciplines offers the most options, then a clan unique, then a bloodline unique a distant third, which strikes me as a good way to be.


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    • #32
      I must confess that I am thinking about giving Daimonion instead of Presence to the Brujah Clan.It would make too much sense to make them True Brujas given what happened in Carthage and also would help me make presence the unique discipline of the Toreador.

      The problem I have is that given the existence of the Baali maybe we need to give the brujah a variant of Daimonion that isnt considerated infernalism as I still want that to be an anatema.So let´s say they get a discipline that allows them to curse others with the power of their rage.

      LV1 BERSEKER
      The Brujah Can Choose to frenzy or make other frenzy with a clash of wills roll.Cost 1BP

      LV2 THE FIRE OF CARTHAGE
      The first and legs of the brujah are covered in fire allowing him to do Agravated damage to vampires and other creatures weak to fire but due to the self destructive nature of this power their blood burns and they suffer 1 unsokable level of Agravated damage each turn this power is active.Cost 1BP X TURN.This level exist to reflect the self destructive nature of the Rage.

      LV3 RECRUIT FOR THE CAUSE
      The Brujah channels his passions towards a victim making them feel their pasion for a cause if they win a clash of wills.As consecuence if the victim is under a situation where he can defend the cause he/she must roll wp 6 to resist the temptatiom.The duration of this level is one night per blood potency level.If the victim wins this power won´t work against him in the future.

      LV4 RAGING MOUTH
      You can give the victims one of the next curses if you win a clash of will , the curse must be pronounced in public and if posible in a biblical way.Cost 1 permanent WP.
      • Infertility
      • - 5 dices to all rolls (Bad Luck)
      • Lossing apparence
      • Give one clan weakness
      The duration is One month for each point of blood potency you have but if you make an exceptional success is permanent.Mind that if you get a botch you are the one who gets cursed.

      LV5 MARK OF CAIN
      The Final Curse , Imitating the hate and rage that God felt in the moment when the Dark Father killed Abel the brujah curses his enemy making all people hate him if he wins a clash of wills roll.Mechanically this is represented by people having to roll willpower diff 6 not to attack or treath the cursed one as trash.Cost 1 Permanent WP

      The Same rules about duration and failure are equal to the LV4

      Note for the clash of wills is imported from requiem and it´s made with Blood Potency/Arete/The double of a Garou Rank + Willpower vs The power trait + Willpower of the victim.To calculate the Blood potency use the formula 13-Generation.

      Thoughts and suggestions?
      Last edited by Leandro16; 07-20-2018, 12:47 PM.


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      • #33
        Thank you, Leandro16 for the thread necromancy. This was a good thread to bring back.

        (For use with V20&pre.)

        (This is a very rough draft, written off the top of my head. Cavaet lector!)

        I'm going to take a crack at the Tremere, for those who find Thaumaturgy too powerful, or too complicated for new players. This is a one Path version of it.

        Each level has a passive and an active application. The latter requires a blatantly obvious ritual to invoke. This requirement may be mitigated if the user knows the level above the power being used, in which case the active use may be invoked with a few mumbled words and some hand motions, though this does not decrease the casting time. If the user chooses to perform the full ritual when unnecessary, decrease the difficulty of activation rolls by 2. Activation rolls can be made into extended rolls if made before the effect of the power is released.

        O Seer of the Terroir

        Passively, allows user to spot awakened beings, magical items, and the use of supernatural powers at a glance. The broad type of magic involved is also clearly obvious... in game terms which corebook is involved. This does not reveal hidden or extra-dimensional beings, unless they choose to be seen or the caster has some other means to see them, such as Auspex or the Medium merit.

        Used actively, roll Perception+Awareness diff. 8. Each success allows a question about the subject's supernatural nature, such as "Who is the power targeting?", "What is her clan?" or "Which discipline is being used?" For especially detailed questions the ST may require multiple questions be expended. This cannot be used for mundane purposes, such as "What is her sister's name?" or "Does he mean me harm?" The ritual for the active application requires a handful of dirt into which is mixed a bloodpoint of the user's blood. This messy mud is applied to the user's eyes during the ritual, which takes five minutes.

        OO Blood Alchemy

        Passively, the user is immune to all blood contaminants, including drugs, diseases, and poisons. This does not, however, protect against supernatural attacks which merely use a toxin as a focus, such as Quietus or the drugs of an Ecstatic.

        The active use costs two blood and involves a complex laboratory, a full night's work, and a large quantity of pure water. This creates a potion which allows the drinker to spend a number of experience points equal to the successes gained in the potions creation immediately, without training time. The potion, being made of the caster's blood can inflict the blood bond as usual. Making the potion costs two blood points and an Intelligence+Science roll, difficulty 8. The potion has an expiration date of one month if properly stored. Most Tremere keep a stock of such potions on hand for emergencies.

        OOO Release the Latent Flame

        Passively, the user finds that small items around them have a habit of being destroyed or made useless. Cream curdles, ropes become tangled, and batteries run down much faster. While this may seem a curse, it rarely happens when it would seriously harm the interests of the user. Indeed, it doubles the number of successes earned when the user attempts to damage or destroy a mundane inanimate object through mundane means. (eg: shooting out a tire of a pursued car, knocking down a door, or breaking ropes which bind) Unfortunately, the magic of destruction can be difficult to control. If the roll is a failure it becomes a botch.

        Active use costs one blood and allows the caster to turn any mundane item they can lift into a weapon which does Lethal damage, using a damage dice pool equal to the user's current willpower. If the ritual is used on an item professionally crafted by mortals to be a weapon (eg: a gun, a sword, or a crossbow) the attack is handled in the usual way, except all damage is Aggravated. The ritual for this power requires the caster to pass the item through a flame, which "ignites" the destructive energies within, and takes only one full action... assuming the flames are lit and ready. The enchantment on the item lasts for one scene, or until the weapon injures someone... at which point the weapon itself is destroyed. (The use of this power is quite spectacular. Non-weapons seem to leap into animated actions. Ropes may strike like a serpent, books flutter like a bird and slam shut on extremities, and paintings may even project forth their subjects to do combat on the caster's behalf. Pre-existing weapons appear to be on fire, dripping blood, or transformed into a heavy-metal skull-shaped death totem. No use of this power is subtle, and the exact "special effects" are not under the caster's control.)

        OOOO Winds of Command

        Passively, the user is immune to bloodbonds and vinculi originating outside Clan Tremere. If a bond already exists when this power is learned, it is destroyed. (Tremere antitribu have enacted a ritual which limits their members' bonds to vinculi within their pack and those involving other Tremere antitribu.)

        Active use costs four blood and allows the user to target uses of Dominate and Auspex against others even if they are not present. The caster must have an item closely associated with the target, as would be revealed by use of Auspex 2. Such an item may only be used once, then loses it's sympathetic connection to the target. The range of this power determines the blood cost to the caster: one bloodpoint for each league (3.5 miles or 5.5 kms) is expended. This can be dangerous for the caster, as their bloodpool may reach zero if the target is further away than anticipated. The ritual involves a few minutes of frenzied dancing and mystical chants, and a Perception+Awareness roll, difficulty 10. The number of successes rolled in the use of Dominate or Auspex may not exceed the number of successes rolled in the ritual activation roll. This ritual must take place under the open sky on a promontory higher than the local environment, such as a cliff ledge or the roof of a skyscraper.


        OOOOO Seals of Solomon

        Passively, the user is able to sense and interact with ghosts, spirits, demons, and other ephemeral beings. Passive use gives no particular capacity for summoning or controlling them, rather such beings simply serve as new npcs. As such, relationships or rivalries can be built.

        Active use costs five blood and allows the user to summon, control, and bind into service ephemeral beings. The activation roll is Manipulation + Occult, difficulty 5+the spirit's rank. Successes are split between the number of nights of service and the power of the spirit so bound. Most spirits will simply go on their way after their service if treated well, not put into danger, and asked to not do anything to complicated. Those who are mistreated, or those who result from a botched activation roll can make quite the dangerous enemy. The exact nature of such a ritual varies depending in the exact spirit being bound, but always takes at least an hour of casting time.

        Powers and abilities of such spirits can be anything the ST will allow as the variety of spirits is nearly infinite.Tremere are known to bind darkness spirits to deflect sunlight, love spirits to bind human hearts, minor weather gods to gather storms, powerful ghosts to animate zombies, and demons of war to strengthen guardians. Wise mages understand , however, that the more powerful the spirit, the more powerful the resulting enemy in the event the relationship goes bad.

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        • #34
          Brujah Discipline:

          "Vanguard"



          Mortals have an expression: "Revolution is in the air". Little do they know how literal this can be when Vanguard is involved.

          For this discipline to function properly, the user must have a strongly held belief system. This can range from political ideals (Communism, Right Wing Libertarianism, single issue advocacy), religious beliefs, or, even, devotion to a subculture, like skinheads, hippies, young fogeys, or 1% bikers. The discipline can be quite powerful, but can never incite a target to support a cause the user themselves does not sincerely support.

          Though most ideals are ideological, they need not be. Brujah wags tell the story of one of their Dutch clanmates who was embraced in the late 16th century because of his sincere love of gardening and, especially, tulips. The resulting financial collapse bankrupted the ruling Ventrue and allowed the Brujah to seize control of the region, which they hold to this night. (Further rumor holds that the Brujah gardener has moved on to support for organic farming... with a more moderate program of lobbying.)

          Vanguard is one of the few treasures Clan Brujah refuses to share with other clans, going so far as to call bloodhunts against outsiders who learn it. Many fear the night a Malkavian masters the discipline.

          Note that this discipline only works on mortals. Vampires lack the requisite passion and malleability of ideals to fall prey to it... at least until elder levels.

          (Replaces Presence.)

          O Inquisitor

          The user rolls Perception + Empathy, difficulty of the target's current Willpower. Success reveals the target's true beliefs, personality, and goals. One detail of their ideals is revealed for each success. No cost, but takes a full action. Once beliefs are known and approaches can be tailored to the audience, it may give the user a bonus to social rolls, at ST discretion. This power forms the backbone of loyalty assurance in Brujah organizations.

          OO Dialectic

          The user makes eye contact, spends a willpower point, and engages the target in a short debate about the virtues of the user's beliefs. This may change the target's beliefs to that of the user. Roll is a contested, extended Manipulation+Expression roll for both sides, difficulty of the opponent's current willpower. The first to accrue ten successes wins. If this is the target, there is no effect. If the Brujah wins, the target changes their views to match the user's. This inflicts the flaw "Driving Goal" for supporting the cause, which can be bought away with experience points.

          OOO Boycott

          The user selects a target (which can be a person, a building, or a physical object), spends a point of blood which is spat upon the target, and rolls Appearance + Politics, difficulty 6. For each success the target activates a frenzy in a number of people who support the user's ideals. Any person who is in sympathy with the user's belief system who happens to encounter the target must spend a point of willpower each turn or enter a rage frenzy directed at the target, which only ends with it's complete destruction or the attacker is restrained. The best chance for the target to survive is to realize they are in danger and hide until the curse passes. Few are this insightful.

          This power only incites sympathetic people who happen to come across the target, it doesn't summon them. In conjunction with the level 4 power, though, few are able to survive the night.

          Those who are not in opposition to the user's ideals are immune to being targeted with this power... though it should be noted how ideologically rigorous some movements can be. Wars have been fought over slight disagreements within a larger movement.

          OOOO Spontex

          The user rolls Charisma+Leadership, difficulty 6, and spends a willpower point to summon people who are sympathetic to the user's cause. The nearest Fellow Travelers will drop what they are doing and travel to the caster by the fastest means practical, where they are eager to take direction from their organizer.

          It takes anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours (depending on the composition of the local community) for the nearest supporters of the cause to mobilize and reach the user, but when they do, they willingly perform some simple action (like starting a protest, stopping traffic, or simple manual labor). With one success, the user summons a score or so attendees (a number which doubles with each success) and gains a temporary level in a Background, such as Resources (as a collection is taken up), Herd (as the milling crowd of fellow travelers always bring their blood, Influence (as officials defer to crowd opinion) or Military Force (as a violent rioter erupts). A failure just fizzles, while a botch acts as five successes, but summoning opponents of the ideals of the user. They automatically form a violent crowd and seek out the user for... political discourse.

          OOOOO Commissar

          The user rolls Manipulation+Performance, difficulty 6, to activate. They then feed the target (who must at least be not strongly opposed to the user's ideals, or be a victim of Dialectic) a bloodpoint. The target becomes, in effect, blood bond to the user's ideals with this single bloodpoint and gains the Driving Goal flaw... and by extension bound to the user as the leader of the local movement. This bond works the same as any other bond, except it only requires the single drink to establish. It fades at the same rate as other bonds, but can be bolstered as easily. Some Brujah are known to hold vast blood cults of fanatically devoted cultists... umm, sympathetic comrades.

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          • #35
            Leandro16
            "Blood Potency" in the write up could be replaced by "Dots of Generation" as 13-generation will be the number of dots in the background.
            In general, I really like the powers, you could replace "Clash of wills" with opposed willpower rolls (Dif 6) to be more consistant with V:TM rules, and it's pretty comparable to the Requiem mechanic by the looks of things.
            If you want the "Blood Potency" to affect the "Clash of Wills" as an opposed willpower role, it could be dif 5 plus opponent's dots in generation...

            Lvl 1 - choose to Frenzy - Great (Super good if they're on a path with Instincts that lets them control what they do)
            - Making someone else Frenzy outright is more powerful than higher level powers that do similar things; maybe make them roll to resist frenzy at dif 6+ net successes for the Brujah.
            Lvl 2 - Similar in power to Protean 2, thematic for Brujah, suitable cost and downside. Write up should maybe include whether the flames cause a frenzy roll in targets or not, and if they can set the target on fire.
            Lvl 3 - Really neat Brujah thematic power
            Lvl 4 and 5 - Permanent Willpower is a very high cost to activate anything, and the powers seem a little off. For curses I'd suggest outright replacing both with standard level 5 Daimoinon (V20) Condemnation, p446 and look at a different level 4.
            Maybe an increased potency version on "Path of Curses 1 - Stigma" to replace level 4

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            • #36
              Toreador Discipline:

              "Paragon
              "

              The Toreador, as is their wont, have found the most elegant solution to the problem of excelling as a vampire. This discipline is simultaneously quite powerful, and yet quite subtle.

              It seems to be a simple intensification of the mundane gifts of the user, focused and increased by the purity of the blood of Arikel. In this way, all Toreador may claim higher excellence over their fellow vampires, without relying on the hocus-pocus of openly magical disciplines. In fact, many users of this discipline have convinced themselves it is not a discipline at all, just their native brilliance bursting forth onto an undeserving world... with some associated hocus-pocus of their own.

              Paragon is divided into "Guilds", loose social groupings of the discipline's practitioners devoted to a reputedly divine founder1; such patrons (and matrons) are assumed by modern Toreador to be allegorical figures, however, some elders give weight to the divine origins of their clan. Each Guild hones an Attribute to the highest possible levels of achievement, and must be purchased separately for each Attribute.

              In V20 terms, Paragon is purchased just like Thaumaturgy, with one Guild and it's associated Attribute functioning as the primary path. This primary path is learned intuitively by fledglings, but secondary paths require initiation by a teacher whose primary path is the secondary path to be taught and has a rating of 3 or higher.

              Each Guild has it's own set of rituals and initiations, which vary from region to region. In this way, Guilds resemble mystery cults2, though many modern Toreador scoff at such superstition and simply get on with the business of learning the new path.

              Mechanics:

              O Initiate of (Appropriate Patron Here)
              At the first level the user must select an Attribute3 (such as Strength, Intelligence, Appearance, etc.) to enhance.

              Level one grants two basic abilities.

              First, the user can never botch a roll if the selected Attribute is part of the dicepool. Such botches are considered simple failures.

              Second, they may spend XP to improve the Attribute as soon as they wish, with no training time or delay required. They must still have the xp to spend, of course, but as with most things, the Toreador just seem to acquire the next dot effortlessly when it suits them.

              OO-OOOOO Devotee of (Appropriate Patron Here)
              Much like the physical disciplines, Paragon does not have different effects at each level, rather the effect simply increases with each.

              For every level taken in a Guild, add one additional automatic success to the final result of any roll involving the Attribute enhanced.

              1 The following are the mythological patrons of each Guild and their associated Attribute. The proper from for naming a Guild is "Guild of [Patron's Name]". Various genitives are used in different languages to denote the followers themselves, so von Herkules and de la Elena are often heard. In Nordic languages, it is customary to refer to practitioners as the children of their founder, so Elinsdottir and Elinsson would be correct forms.

              It is known there have been other systems of organization over the centuries and across the world.

              The earliest Toreador, called Ishtarri, are believe to have devoted themselves to Babylonian and Semitic deities. It's doubtful if any but the dustiest elders still think of the Discipline in this way.

              Among Ashirra tonight, more abstract terminology does away with the pagan iconography, naming each a Diwan (collection of poems) of an archetypal profession. So, the guild associated with Perception is the Diwan of the Guardian, and Intelligence is enhanced by the Diwan of the Scholar. Each such Diwan has a library associated with it in cities across the Umma, where Toreador may travel for instruction. The collections range from practical manuals to highly advanced literature. None of these practice the complex, idolatrous initiations of European Toreador (though the Library of Beauty, recently relocated from Beirut to Dubai comes close), but a short period of service to the library is often required.

              Strength... Hercules
              Dexterity... Terpsichore
              Stamina... Achilles
              Charisma... Aphrodite
              Manipulation... Autolycus
              Appearance... Helen of Troy
              Perception... Helios
              Intelligence... Coeus
              Wits... Metis

              2 Scholars within the clan claim that in the earliest nights there were only three guilds: physical, social, and mental. The preeminent of these was the Cult of Hathor, a bovine goddess of music, dance, foreign travels, and... ahem... fertility. The initiation into her cult involved dancing with a bull, much in the manner of later Cretan bull dancers. This yields one possible etymology for the clan's modern name.

              3 Toreador rumors claim there are more Guilds, usually heard of from "a friend of a friend of my sire's brood-mate" in the manner of urban legends, which improve on other traits, such as moral virtues, control over the Beast, and spirituality. This seems unlikely.

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              • #37
                I always kept it that way in my games. Thaumaturgy (as in first editions) is STRICT Tremere discipline and nobody knows it (and if they do they are hunted by clan), that includes all Thaum Paths like Lure of Flames, Movement of Mind etc. Other sorcerers have their own magic and paths (for example Divine Hand for Settits, Path of Hunting for Assamites etc.). Protean is strick Gangrel only, same as Vissonly for Tzimitze, Dementation for Malkavs, Serpentis for Set followers etc. And I never allow any PC to pick out those disciplines on character creation and I almost never allow them to learn them during chronicles (like it happned 2 times maybe), unless in very very rare circumstances (becoming very close ally to a clan, getting a huge favor from Elder etc.).

                The Disciplines I consider universal: Celerity, Dominate, Presence, Potence, Fortitude, Obfuscate, Animalism etc. (shared by more than 1 clan) I allow to learn.

                This way my PCs always feel special and unique and also every clan they meet have unique things.

                This is of course my home rules but I prefer when disciplines and clans are more unique which really sets all clans apart from each other.

                Sadly I never considered making unique Disciplines for more "universal" clans (Toreador, Brujah, Ventrue etc.) because I think I would make them either bad or totally OP, so let's say those are "less unique" clans, or more traditional (less strange..).
                Last edited by Viben; 07-25-2018, 08:13 PM.

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                • #38
                  Thaumaturgy:
                  This is weird, every time I look at the levels, I think of powers that are less powerful at the level but also others that are more powerful. Then as a whole it feels like it's too varied and I remember Path of Blood; the main Thaumaturgy which is very broad.
                  For Seal of Solomon; Being that necromancy was never much of a thing for most Tremere (And it's covered by Necromancy with the Giovanni) it might be better to limit it to "Spirits" in the many and varied ways that white wolf use the term, but not Ghosts


                  Vanguard
                  Oh my God, I love all the powers for this. The Brujah should have this or something like it


                  Paragon:
                  Thematically, I really do like it but I feel that it's not balanced for the mechanics. It's better than Potence for it's strength enhancement (for 95% of situations) and more versatile because the character can choose their preference of attribute, giving toreador 9 versions of a discipline.
                  (I would personally choose 4 successes at level 5 with no ability to botch, over 5 dice at level 5 for Potence. Some times, the ability to convert to successes for a Blood might be better.

                  Even just going with up to + 4 dice is still powerful, especially for most attributes that you can't augment with Physical disciplines or Blood Buffing.

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                  • #39
                    Talking about Thaumaturgy mine is balanced by the fact that with the exception of my own version of the path of blood that replaces Dominate (Ventrue Unique Discipline) it is full ritual example:creo ignem is a LV3 ritual that requires you to cut the palm of your hand to expel the fire etc..The old path are integrated as a rituals that you can learn very cheap once you have the needed thaumaturgy level although some are eliminated like the path of conjuration becuase is broken as F***.This makes the tremere look more as hermetic mages than vampires with superpowers.

                    Sanguinism or Path of Blood (A la Bloodlines)
                    Each level one in Sanguinism is a level won in thaumaturgy and viceversa.I use the clash of will system from requiem becuase it woks so well and is easy to integrate in masquerade but if you don´t like it you can replace it with willpower + Generation/Gnosis/Arete background/Stat as Illithid suggested , it does the same.

                    LV1 Forensic Thaumaturgy
                    By tasting a sample of blood you get the location of the person , their blood potency , their know disciplines (but not what levels they know) ,Mental image, if they have commited diablerie and if they are a vampire , ghoul , revenant or vampire , if its a vampire you also get a general idea of the place where the embrace took place.

                    LV2 Blood Forge
                    You can create mundane objets made of blood that disapear after the scene.This objets cannot be tallar than a grown up adult and do not have more propierties than the ones form the blood they are made altought the blood can be hardened to get the resistance of Iron Allowing to make , mundane weapons . armors or even useful objets like the key you need to open a door.
                    Cost 1BP
                    Duration 1 Scene

                    LV3 Sanguine Parasit
                    You make a clash of wills roll and if you win you steal you blood potency in terms of vitae from the victim.The flows comes to you trough the air so its an obviusly masquerade breach
                    COST 1BP

                    LV4 Sanguine Manipulation
                    You can manipulate your blood and the one of your enemies to hit them with blood missile casting or by making their blood burn inside them.Each blood point used to activate this discipline causes 2 points of letal damage that act as agravated against vampires.

                    LV5 Sanguine Countermagic
                    You can roll your sanguine + Willpower against the activation of any blood magic or discipline to cancel it´s effects by getting more succes than the ones from the activation.For this to be able to work you must know what are the effects of the power in question.Doesnt work against non blood magic like awakened powers.

                    NOTE:I must confess i am really tempted to take as a ritual some ideas from the Nosimplehiway thaumaturgical path (Seals of Solomon rocks as it does Vanguard althought i feel the level one a liltle overpowered by eliminating the political horror aspect of treachery from your humans followers but this is due to my personal tastes and the all levels are perfectly fitting for the brujah).
                    Last edited by Leandro16; 07-26-2018, 06:58 AM.


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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                      Thaumaturgy:
                      This is weird, every time I look at the levels, I think of powers that are less powerful at the level but also others that are more powerful. Then as a whole it feels like it's too varied and I remember Path of Blood; the main Thaumaturgy which is very broad.
                      For Seal of Solomon; Being that necromancy was never much of a thing for most Tremere (And it's covered by Necromancy with the Giovanni) it might be better to limit it to "Spirits" in the many and varied ways that white wolf use the term, but not Ghosts
                      Yeah, the "maybe over-powered, maybe under-powered... but always mysterious" vibe was what I was going for. I wanted to make Tremere spooky and mysterious again.

                      Much of this Discipline's efficacy depends on creative use by the caster.

                      I mean, at level 1, recognizing a Fae, a Mage, or a Garou when you walk past them on a train platform is nice, but what do you do with that information? It has as much potential for getting the Tremere in trouble as it does helping them. It also makes it exceptionally difficult to infiltrate the Pyramid.

                      With level 2, Tremere gain a reputation for knowing things they couldn't possibly know, like an elder from 1700 awakening and knowing Computers the next night or the local Regent having unexplained high levels of Sabbat Lore. They also become the go-to source for training in obscure abilities or enhancements, almost like minor wish fulfillment. Does a Gangrel want a high Appearance? Does a Ventrue need to learn Mandarin right now, tonight? The catch being it isn't reliable, because no one knows whether they have the XP to power it.

                      Level 3 is a catch-all for improvised magical attacks. A lamp might shoot electricity, a candle might burst into a fireball, and a refrigerator might pour forth a blizzard. In the underlying mechanic, the Tremere knows one power, but to observers, in world, it looks like every mid-level Tremere knows a nearly infinite number of bizarre spells. It ratchets up the "watch out for the Tremere, they are dangerous and sneaky" aspect of the clan. It does, however, require some real creativity on the part of the player to choose a good object and describe a special effect, which adds some texture to the game.

                      Level 4, frankly, exists because I wanted to see Tremere engaging in frenetic rituals on the roof of a skyscraper while being buffeted by powerful winds. Sometimes an image is just too good to not put in a game. That, and it allows sympathetic magic of the voodoo doll variety.

                      Level 5 is where high ranking Tremere have the random bag of tricks the clan is known for. It takes the place of all other Paths and all Rituals, and replaces them with a narrative, free-form approach which depends on ST input. It also makes learning such a ritual a much bigger deal, and allows for the creation of "magic items"... really just symbols of the deal made with the spirit.

                      TBH, I hesitated on including ghosts, because of stealing focus from the Giovanni. In a chronicle which doesn't feature a Giovanni, though, handling ghosts would seem to be a Tremere thing. That, and, sometimes the line between spirits and ghosts can be a little vague, especially at upper levels of power. But, yeah, pulling ghosts is probably for the best.


                      Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                      Thaumaturgy:Vanguard
                      Oh my God, I love all the powers for this. The Brujah should have this or something like it
                      Thank you. I see someone who supports the idea has demonstrated Dialectic to you first hand.


                      Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                      Paragon:
                      Thematically, I really do like it but I feel that it's not balanced for the mechanics. It's better than Potence for it's strength enhancement (for 95% of situations) and more versatile because the character can choose their preference of attribute, giving toreador 9 versions of a discipline.
                      (I would personally choose 4 successes at level 5 with no ability to botch, over 5 dice at level 5 for Potence. Some times, the ability to convert to successes for a Blood might be better.

                      Even just going with up to + 4 dice is still powerful, especially for most attributes that you can't augment with Physical disciplines or Blood Buffing.
                      I originally developed this discipline for a bloodline. They were a crew of witch-hunters who despised magic, but once embraced decided to fight the evil creatures from within. (A not entirely unselfish rationalization.) Their clan flaw would be that they have only Paragon and are unable to learn any other discipline, refusing to learn more blatant powers. Instead they rely on "divine providence and native ability" to survive.

                      The mechanic is based on earlier versions of Potence, which used auto-successes. The themes and mood of Paragon (ie "It's not magic. Thank God, I'm just that amazing!") would work fine with the later Potence mechanic, too.

                      The "no botch" thing is vital, though, to maintaining the self-image of perfection. Sometimes things don't work out the way you like, but they never really, really, blow up in your face. Plus, it allows for the creation of some very effective, but narrowly focused, ghouls.

                      As for nine paths, well, the canon Tremere have more than that available, and Thaumaturgy has a much broader range of effects. They keep getting published, edition after edition, without any serious nerfing. Of course, that might change in the next hour or so....

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                      • #41
                        Brujah would have to be Temporary. Nosferatu nightmare. Ventrue something that controls the blood ties. And Toreador some other variation of Rapidity as well as Brujah, I would focus on manipulating one's own gravity and lightness and momentum control of objects in the distance.

                        All he could do was bring the Gaki with his discipline back. And give the Wan Kuei disciplines linked to sleep / blow and one more element. In the first cold path and in the second diseases and fever (heat).


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                        • #42
                          [QUOTE=Sergeant Brother;n13146]

                          Assamites - Quietus
                          Brujah - Presence
                          Followers of Set - Serpentis
                          Gangrel - Animalism
                          Giovanni - Necromancy
                          Lasombra - Obtenebration
                          Malkavian - Dementation
                          Nosferatu - Obfuscate
                          Ravnos - Chimerstry
                          Tremere - Thaumaturgy
                          Toreador - Auspex
                          Tzimisce - Vicissitude
                          Ventrue - Dominate
                          /QUOTE]

                          I enjoyed this idea. I rewrote some house rules and redesigned NPCs with this in mind.

                          Everyone gets celerity, potence, fortitude, and protean. Then a proprietary.

                          Caitiff get nothing. But then again have no curse. So plus zero minus zero.

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                          • #43
                            We did a similar thought experiment, but took it a step further: what if each clan only had ONE Discipline? To really highlight their own coolness and what they do best. This is the list we came up with:

                            Brujah - Potence. This is their thing. The first thought most have when they think Brujah is their monstrous strenghth. Skullcrushing and lifting cars.

                            Toreador - Presence. You will love them and despair. They will be the center of attention. Presence is the weapon of harpies and performers all over the world.

                            Malkavian - Auspex. Letting the Malks see into the minds of others seemed like a natural fit. Sensory overload, visions of the future, speaking your enemies plans... it enforces the "mad seer" really well.

                            Ventrue - Dominate. Kinda obvious, but one does not disobey the clan of kings. This is one of the primary reasons they are on top.

                            Nosferatu - Obfuscate. No-brainer as well. It really should have been their signature discipline from the start. Sneaking in corners is their whole schtick.

                            Tremere - Thaumaturgy. The tremere stole their vampirism, so they only get what they created themselves. Also, in this system, maybe cut down on available paths...

                            Lasombra - Obtenebration. Let the shadowmasters have their fun.

                            Tzimisce - Viscissitude. Let the fleshcrafters have their fun.

                            Setites - Serpentis. Let the spooky snakes have their fun.

                            Giovanni - Necromancy. Let the necromancers have their fun.

                            Ravnos and Gangrel - We actually got a bit stuck on these ones.
                            Gangrel could reasonably have ANY of Animalism, Protean and Fortitude as their own discipline. Fortitude if you wanna enforce their "grizzled survivor" feeling, Animalism if you wanna make them one with nature, and Protean if you wanna let them have their fun.
                            Ravnos are in a similar place, and should have Animalism or Chimerstry as their unique thing. If Gangrel get Animalism, Ravnos get chimerstry. Otherwise, I feel it's a coin toss...


                            Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

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                            • #44
                              I think Warrior Path Valeren is a solid choice for Brujah. Especially the old school warrior-scholars that built Carthage.
                              For the Nos, you should just import Nightmare from Requiem. It's perfect, thematically.

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