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Connecting the Clans (a little Requiem on Masquerade)

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  • Connecting the Clans (a little Requiem on Masquerade)

    I need a little help... I'm working on a sort of "mashup," kinda, and I was wondering if those more versed in the clans of both could help me out.

    I'd like to use the Requiem "5 clan" as the "trunk" and branch out the 13 from Masquerade from them. For example, the Mekhet could be the umbrella to the Assamite, Lasombra, and Tremere.

    Going with the others, Daeva could be the umbrella to the Ravnos and Toreador. Gangrel as umbrella to Brujah and Gangrel (duh). Nosferatu as umbrella to Malkavian, Nosferatu (duh), and Tzimisce. Ventrue as umbrella to Giovanni, Followers of Set, and Ventrue (yes, duh).

    My line of thinking is that the Daeva have the passionate and the flamboyant... and I realize that making the Ravnos one of them may seem a stretch but I was looking mostly at Chimerstry as being the flamboyant part. The Mekhet are the shadowy and ritualistic bunch. Gangrel as the rebels and woodsy types. Nosferatu are the "twisted" and unnerving, nightmarish folks. Ventrue fit all the devout and aristocratic.

    Anyone have any takes or corrections?

    For those wondering, I'm also thinking of branching out this "tree" with the Bloodlines out of the branches.

  • #2
    I would move the Malkavians to the Ventrue umbrella, as their VTR v1 weakness was insanity related, and the followers of set to the Mekhet, as their weakness is identical. Lasombra could fit under Nosferatu, with the whole Abyss link dealing with fearing things that go bump in the night.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kael03 View Post
      I would move the Malkavians to the Ventrue umbrella, as their VTR v1 weakness was insanity related, and the followers of set to the Mekhet, as their weakness is identical. Lasombra could fit under Nosferatu, with the whole Abyss link dealing with fearing things that go bump in the night.
      I know VtR had Malkavians (Malkovians) under Ventrue, but I thought the insanity was a side effect (in this line of thinking).

      The Lasombra, I can see, being under the Nosferatu umbrella...

      Otherwise, are my segments sound? Anyone else?

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      • #4
        The Malkovians were Ventrue vampires that succumbed to a disease that gave them access to Dementation. The Ventrue overall were originally more susceptible to derangements, then were given dice penalties if their touchstone is unavailable.

        Otherwise, like I said before, I would put the settites under the Mekhet group, as both are more vulnerable to sunlight and fire.

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        • #5
          Do you have any ideas on putting Bloodlines in or should I just look at what is out there as "deviations" and expand from there?

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          • #6
            As bloodlines can be more extreme and different from their parent clans, I would use them as deviants and expand from there. I mean, the Harbingers of Skulls and possibly Samedi are related to the Giovanni, but I wouldn't necessarily out them under the same umbrella group.

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            • #7
              Brujah - Daeva
              Gangrel - Gangrel
              Malkavian - Mekhet
              Nosferatu - Nosferatu
              Toreador - Daeva
              Tremere - Mekhet highlights to their knowledge-seeking side, Ventrue their domineering side.
              Ventrue - Ventrue

              Assamite - Mekhet
              Giovanni - Mekhet or Ventrue. The Giovanni are more Ventrue than Mekhet, but the Cappadocians are more Mekhet than Ventrue.
              Ravnos - Daeva highlights their "charming devil" side (Majesty nicely subs for Chimerstry), Gangrel their outcast wanderer side. They share 2/3rds of the same Disciplines.
              Setite - Daeva or Mekhet are both great fits. Daeva portrays them as tempters, Mekhet as lorekeepers.

              Lasombra - Mekhet or Ventrue. Mekhet for their "power behind the throne" angle, Ventrue for their domineering angle.
              Tzimisce - Ventrue or Nosferatu. Ventrue plays up their aristocratic roots, Nosferatu how horrifying they are.

              I'd also revise Noddist lore to give Caine five childer, one from each "overclan." Irad is Gangrel, Enoch is Ventrue or Mekhet, the Crone is Nosferatu, and Zillah is Daeva or Mekhet.


              Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post
                I'd also revise Noddist lore to give Caine five childer, one from each "overclan." Irad is Gangrel, Enoch is Ventrue or Mekhet, the Crone is Nosferatu, and Zillah is Daeva or Mekhet.
                I'm going to let a little bit out of the bag, there is 5 "trunk" childer which'll expand into the 13 "branches." Sects will be the smaller "twigs" (to perpetuate the tree metaphor I'm using) as they'll be made up of the clans. I'm swaying from the Judeo-Christian origin by using a progenitor that will have Caine as one of the trunks...

                I did like the term "overclan" though.

                Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post
                Brujah - Daeva
                Gangrel - Gangrel
                Malkavian - Mekhet
                Nosferatu - Nosferatu
                Toreador - Daeva
                Tremere - Mekhet highlights to their knowledge-seeking side, Ventrue their domineering side.
                Ventrue - Ventrue

                Assamite - Mekhet
                Giovanni - Mekhet or Ventrue. The Giovanni are more Ventrue than Mekhet, but the Cappadocians are more Mekhet than Ventrue.
                Ravnos - Daeva highlights their "charming devil" side (Majesty nicely subs for Chimerstry), Gangrel their outcast wanderer side. They share 2/3rds of the same Disciplines.
                Setite - Daeva or Mekhet are both great fits. Daeva portrays them as tempters, Mekhet as lorekeepers.

                Lasombra - Mekhet or Ventrue. Mekhet for their "power behind the throne" angle, Ventrue for their domineering angle.
                Tzimisce - Ventrue or Nosferatu. Ventrue plays up their aristocratic roots, Nosferatu how horrifying they are.
                Daeva for Brujah (really?), Toreador, and possibly Ravnos and Setites.

                Gangrel for Gangrel, and possibly Ravnos.

                Mekhet for Malkavian, Tremere, Assamite, and possibly Giovanni and Lasombra.

                Nosferatu for Nosferatu and possibly Tzimisce.

                Ventrue for Ventrue, possibly Giovanni, possibly Lasombra, and possibly Tzimisce.

                I think that unbalances things a little... but maybe I'm looking at the balance thing wrong... if Nosferatu's founder was truly unhappy with their situation, would they want to pass it on to many others in different forms? I do think the Gangrel founder would embrace more than one "branch" founder.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LimeFlavored View Post
                  Daeva for Brujah (really?)
                  Brujah are passionate and charismatic figures who draw mortals like moths to a flame. Requiem Daeva are sex magnets who draw mortals like moths to a flame. Their brand of appeal is different, but they appeal rather than repulse (Nosferatu), command (Ventrue), hide from (Mekhet), or ignore (Gangrel). They even share the same Discipline spread.


                  Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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                  • #10
                    I always figured the Tzimisce to be analog to a subgroup of Gangrel. As in the savage Noble. Dracula for example should've been a Gangrel in VtM rather than a Tzimisce. At least in my opinion.





                    English is not my native language, so i apologize for errors in grammar or spelling.

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                    • #11
                      I think they made Dracula a Tzimisce because the real Vlad Tepes was a sadistic sociopath that had little regard for human life during his reign, which fit the Tzimisce profile perfectly.

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                      • #12
                        If you are going to take it 5, just take it to 3 and use the 2nd generation......

                        http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Generation

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                        • #13
                          I was doing exactly the same thing two nights ago (I posted something about in the Requiem section of the forum), although then I took another direction and rewrote blood magic and the covenants.

                          The basic system I used was to group Masquerade clans depending on which unique disciplines of the Requiem clans they had. Ex.: clans with Auspex are bloodlines of the Mekhet, clans with Dominate are bloodlines of the Ventru, etc.

                          The issue are clans with two requiem unique disciplines, like Tremere (Auspex+Dominate) or Toreador (Auspex+Presence/Majesty), plus the requiem Nosferatu since nobody has Nightmare in Masquerade. But I'm sure you can work some way around this, and nothing prevents a bloodline from having, among their 4 in-clan disciplines, 2 unique ones. Some bloodlines in the Requiem books have that. You just have to decide what the bloodline story is and what's their relation to the requiem clans with those unique disciplines. Ex.: are the Toreador a Mekhet or Daeva bloodline? DUe to their concept, they're likely a Daeva bloodline. Some ancestor of theirs (the bloodline founder) must have picked up Auspex at some point to better enjoy beauty and then managed to pass it on to his children. Are the Tremere Ventru or Mekhet? They might just be a group of mages who managed to kidnap both mekhet and ventru for their experiments to become vampires, eventually getting both disciplines. Given that Tremere are both into secrets and control, it's really up to you whether their childer are mekhet or ventru until they reach blood potency 2 and which vampires can join the bloodline. In the specific case of the Tremere, though, a group of blood magicians from all clans who undergo a ritual binding them to the group elders is also a viable option.

                          I'm not sure what to do with the Requiem Nosferatu. They're so cool, but I don't know who to put with them in terms of Masquerade clans.

                          So far my origin idea is that the first vampire's identity is unknown, but the fact that he/she had five childer from whom the clans descend is known across the world, and the 5 clans have many names in many languages and are not specifically Euro-centric in concept. If PCs want an origin story, I have in mind to start the chronicle after a site with 5 VERY ancient tombs full of magical symbols is found in Polynesia... Just to take vampire origins out of the region of interest of Abrahamic myths and have more creative fun. Cainites, Laibon, Wan Kuei and Drowned Legacies can keep believing what they want, though, about the geographical origin of the first. They're just wrong, that's all.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chaifi View Post
                            If you are going to take it 5, just take it to 3 and use the 2nd generation......

                            http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Generation
                            You have the right idea... I used the 5 for the 2nd Generation and that led to the 13-ish for the 3rd Generation. I'm moving in a different direction with all of this, though, as I was making the process WAY too complicated.

                            Originally posted by Hermeticus View Post
                            So far my origin idea is that the first vampire's identity is unknown, but the fact that he/she had five childer from whom the clans descend is known across the world, and the 5 clans have many names in many languages and are not specifically Euro-centric in concept. If PCs want an origin story, I have in mind to start the chronicle after a site with 5 VERY ancient tombs full of magical symbols is found in Polynesia... Just to take vampire origins out of the region of interest of Abrahamic myths and have more creative fun. Cainites, Laibon, Wan Kuei and Drowned Legacies can keep believing what they want, though, about the geographical origin of the first. They're just wrong, that's all.
                            I sent you a PM... I'd like to talk.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chaifi View Post
                              If you are going to take it 5, just take it to 3 and use the 2nd generation......

                              http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Generation
                              I fancy trying this out:
                              Progenitor Enoch the Wise Irad the Strong Zillah the Beautiful
                              Primarily copied from Mehket, Ventrue, Tremere, High Clans that don’t fit Irad Daeva, Brujah, Toreador, kind of Ravnos, Nosferatu, Gangrel, most non-Camarilla clans, overtly monstrous vampires
                              Their deal Cooperative, conspirational cold fish. They’ve rigourously risk assessed exterminating the other clans, as well as most of humanity. Majestic and mighty instigators. Living like humans, but stronger, sexier and typically with more death and ruin. Independence from living and unliving civilisation.
                              What they do with humans Strategically manipulate them, study them, rewrite their memories and minds as needs be A lot Mostly just feed on them, but some experiments and rituals
                              Disciplines Auspex, Dominate, Fortitude Celerity, Potence, Presence Animalism, Obsfuscate, Protean
                              Weakness Mystical bans and banes that defy explanation like garlic, religious imagery, counting fallen grains of rice, never lying, etc. Passionate urges to frenzy, particular vices, people, etc. Inhuman deformities. They can, do and must hide them with obsfuscate, but they’re always subliminally conspicuous, which creeps people out.

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