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V5 Protean lvl 1

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  • V5 Protean lvl 1

    With Protean lvl 1 power (Weight of the Feather) vampire can ignore damage from concussive attacks? With bare hands by exemple?

  • #2
    It's a level 1 discipline that's free to activate. What do you think?

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    • #3
      I dont no.
      Hit in highway by a truck not harm the vampire with this power? so a big punch or slam strike is different?
      I think this power is similar a "super hero landing" by Selene in Underworld

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ulisses View Post
        With Protean lvl 1 power (Weight of the Feather) vampire can ignore damage from concussive attacks? With bare hands by exemple?
        It's a good question, and don't let anyone make you feel stupid for asking it. Based on a RAW reading of the published power it would appear so.

        This allows them to avoid triggering pressure sensors as well as avoiding major damage from falls, collisions, or being thrown.
        As long as the power is in effect, the vampire is immune to damage from falls, collisions, and being thrown.
        Note well that it includes "being thrown", an action normally associated with hand-to-hand combat, so the attacker's intent doesn't somehow prevent the power from absorbing damage.

        In combat, of course, the vampire won't have time to prepare, so a Wits+Survival roll will be necessary. I imagine the effect as being like a newspaper blown out of the way of a speeding truck, or someone trying to punch a balloon. The target just wafts away as quickly as the collision happens.

        Should that be a level one power with no cost in blood? Probably not.

        Is that how I would have written it? No.

        Is that what I would allow in my game, if I were STing? Definitely, no.

        But, is that how the power reads? Yes. Hopefully there is an official errata that fixes this.

        Could a longer period of alpha play prevent this sort of thing? Most likely.

        Comment


        • #5
          No. You do have the means to roll if facing a sudden fall, but attacks are split second affairs and beyond what this power is capable of protecting from. Also note that it's more for dealing with blunt force trauma, so claws, teeth, bullets, sharp blades, or anything else that cuts or pierces wouldn't be affected by this power even if you had time to prepare for that attack.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've taken a few minutes and worked up a quick and dirty re-write which, I hope, retains the spirit of Weight of the Feather without the ability to survive being hit by a speeding locomotive. Removing invulnerability to physical attacks seemed like it weakened the power a tiny bit, so I added a climbing option. We finally know how vampires get up on those weird ledges and perches the artists keep portraying them as striking a dramatic pose upon.

            (I almost changed the name since the weight of a feather has nothing whatsoever to do with how fast such an object falls; that's air resistance. I decided a name-change would be confusing. So, fairy-tale physics it is!)

            Weight of the Feather

            The vampire can reduce their effective weight, thereby reducing their density. While the user is incapable of actual flight, per se, having a density only slightly higher than air assists them in avoiding triggering pressure sensors, leaving tracks in mud or snow, incurring major damage from falls, and, if even the slightest handhold is available, climbing along vertical surfaces. The power cannot be used for improved jumping, since with the vampire’s loss of weight air resistance prevents such leaps.

            ■■ Cost: Free
            ■■ Dice Pools: Wits + Survival
            ■■ System: If the vampire has time to prepare, no roll is required. As a reaction, such as during a sudden fall, activating the power requires a Wits + Survival roll at Difficulty 3. As long as the power is in effect, the vampire is immune to damage from falls. The user also avoids triggering devices that rely on pressure, and they do not leave clear footprints, at the Storyteller’s discretion.
            While the vampire is nearly weightless, the user can climb surfaces at half their normal speed. Unusually smooth surfaces or climbing in a stressful situation, such as in combat, requires a Dexterity+Athletics roll, at Difficulty 3 to climb a brick or masonry wall, or higher for exceptionally smooth materials, like glass.
            ■■ Duration: As long as desired

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
              In combat, of course, the vampire won't have time to prepare, so a Wits+Survival roll will be necessary. I imagine the effect as being like a newspaper blown out of the way of a speeding truck, or someone trying to punch a balloon. The target just wafts away as quickly as the collision happens.

              Should that be a level one power with no cost in blood? Probably not.

              Is that how I would have written it? No.

              Is that what I would allow in my game, if I were STing? Definitely, no.

              But, is that how the power reads? Yes. Hopefully there is an official errata that fixes this.

              Could a longer period of alpha play prevent this sort of thing? Most likely.
              The damage resistance to certain types of damage is vastly different depending on the Vampire legend in question. Most Germanic Vampire types (e.g. Nachtzehrer, Blutsauger, Alp), many indian ones like e.g. the Baital, an Aztecian/Mexican one (I don´t remember the name off the cuff) or the Babylonian Lilitu are examples of vampires simply shrugging off concussion damage from the start.
              It might have been unintentional to make this Protean power so potent or the designers went with those legends I mentioned above.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Günther View Post
                The damage resistance to certain types of damage is vastly different depending on the Vampire legend in question. Most Germanic Vampire types (e.g. Nachtzehrer, Blutsauger, Alp), many indian ones like e.g. the Baital, an Aztecian/Mexican one (I don´t remember the name off the cuff) or the Babylonian Lilitu are examples of vampires simply shrugging off concussion damage from the start.
                It might have been unintentional to make this Protean power so potent or the designers went with those legends I mentioned above.
                Damage resistance building upward from a level one power would be the perfect way to represent myths in which vampires are not as easily injured as humans, which is nearly all of them. That power exists, already, as Fortitude.

                The problem with how V5's canon version of Weight of Feather reads is that it is immunity to "major damage from collisions and being thrown"... provided by a level one power.

                RAW, it means a Gangrel fledgling can stand on the tracks and be run into by a bullet train going 300kph and just waft away safely like a feather in the wind. RAW, it means that a Gangrel fledgling can be "collided" with by a bullet and automatically just float out of the way, like a balloon hit by a tennis ball. RAW, it means Caine himself could use all his strength to "throw" that Gangrel fledgling into a granite cliff-face, and the Gangrel would just bounce out of the way, like a mote of dust wafted by a breeze.

                This invulnerability happens with no roll, or, possibly, a simple Wits+Survival roll if the Gangrel is surprised and hasn't had time to activate the power. Of course, the power has no cost and no duration, meaning a Gangrel could just activate it and leave it on for the rest of their existence. Note, there is no mention of its effects being obvious when the user is simply walking around minding their own business, so this may not cause a Masquerade breach unless damage is actually resisted.

                In fairness, the clause "avoiding major damage from" does open the possibility of a few scrapes and bumps when one is run into by a space shuttle during take-off, but exactly how much "minor" damage is left to the ST.

                I like V5, and enjoy most of their new discipline powers. (Thank you, writers, for Daunt. It greatly expanded the concepts that can benefit from Presence.) This one, though, needs some serious work, and threatens to break the game. Or, at least combat that involves physical objects being moved around to cause damage.

                Oh, and remember it's a level one power. That means ghouls can learn it. They can use it at no cost, except for one rouse check worth of blood from their domitor once a month. (V5, p234)

                Comment


                • #9
                  I really feel like some of you are stretching the definition of what this does. Lots of vampire rules are going to violate physics (like how they're alive at all). This power is clearly about the ability to land safely, and not exert force on pressure plates one. Obviously it breaks Newton but think of it thematically rather than literally. It's not going to stop damage from a train or a fist, but you won't take damage from the landing your body takes if you get catapulted over a wall.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Coridan

                    As long as the power is in effect, the vampire is immune to damage from falls, collisions, and being thrown.
                    Duration: As long as desired

                    Definition of "immune": "protected or exempt, especially from an obligation or the effects of something", and "not affected or influenced by something".
                    Definition of "damage": "physical harm caused to something in such a way as to impair its value, usefulness, or normal function".
                    Definition of "collision": "an instance of one moving object or person striking violently against another".

                    What am I misreading in the text, RAW?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just wanted to say that they could have gone with protean micking biological adaptations from predators like in requiem.It´s so AWESOME to not be included.
                      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...MZwHJHot7s/pub

                      That said I would allow SpongeLike Biology or Weight of a Feather to actually nullify bashing damage.This won´t be broken becuase I always transform bahsing damage in letal if the dicepool or level of damage is 10 or more.Letal damage is transformed in agravated without considerating the fount of the damage if the dicepool or actual damage surpasses is equal to 20 or more.It balances the whole thing and also makes sense (I think we got something similar in fall damage rules).


                      Hunger pool

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                      • #12
                        The Train Example:

                        If you’re standing on train tracks and a speeding train runs over you, you take full damage because you got hit by a FUCKING TRAIN.

                        Now, if you’re fighting on top of a moving train and you get pushed off, you don’t take any damage from the fall (regardless of height).

                        It’s the “super hero landing” power, not the “why bother with Fortitude” power.


                        This is what happens when an Abyssal Exalted ends up in H.o.L.
                        (Also known as "Derpwraith" and "PretentiousFontsGuy
                        ").

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nazfool

                          As long as the power is in effect, the vampire is immune to damage from falls, collisions, and being thrown.
                          I didn't write the "system" section of this power.

                          Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

                          How does this quote from V5 translate to "you take full damage" from a collision?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nazfool View Post
                            The Train Example:

                            If you’re standing on train tracks and a speeding train runs over you, you take full damage because you got hit by a FUCKING TRAIN.

                            Now, if you’re fighting on top of a moving train and you get pushed off, you don’t take any damage from the fall (regardless of height).

                            It’s the “super hero landing” power, not the “why bother with Fortitude” power.
                            No. You can rule it however you wish but the statment is clear when it says "... collision". And a FUCKING train hitting you is the very definition of collision.
                            Then, is this power cool or balanced? No!
                            Is it well written? No!
                            But still this's what it's saying.
                            Last edited by Marcus; 10-05-2018, 07:49 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Marcus View Post

                              No. You can rule it however you wish but the statment is clear when it says "... collision". And a FUCKING train hitting you is the very definition of collision.
                              Then, is this power cool or balanced? No!
                              Is it well written? No!
                              But still this's what it's saying.

                              Note that this power makes the vampire weightless, not the object coming at the vampire. It's designed to protect against falls and being thrown. So basically, if you somehow got thrown AT a train, then this power would protect you from the damage caused from your own momentum. But if that train was moving at you, it doesn't protect you from ITS momentum. You still get splashed like a messy pizza on a sidewalk. Whether you are as light as a feather or as heavy as Andre the Giant, the massive force of impact from that train remains the same.

                              I had originally read it the way a lot of people in this thread did ... but it seems very clear now that this power cuts out damage from your speeding mass only.

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