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Day Drinker Merit - why only for Thinbloods when there are enough other legends?

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  • Day Drinker Merit - why only for Thinbloods when there are enough other legends?

    The Day Drinker Merit is meant for Thin-Bloods, I know. But it should be available for other Generations/Clans at higher cost, because depending on region, there are a lot of Vampire legends, where the Vampires have no problem with the sun. Germany has fewer Vampire legends than some other lands, but with the exception of the Nosferatu (which is a recent invention anyway)all Vampires from here have no problems with the sun.

    Some have weakened powers, others are not hindered by sunlight at all. Most are highly resilent against damage of all kinds. Even total destruction of the body does not stop some types from returning again, their body reforming, if it was done wrong. Normally there are specific, most often not easy, ways how Vampires from German lands can be slain. The Neuntöter for example can only be laid to final rest with the help of fresh lemons and no, simply throwing lemons at them will not function.
    Other regions where Vampires have few problems with sunlight are e.g. the southern Balkans, say Macedonia, Bulgaria and several of the Indian Vampire types. The Day Drinker merit should reflect such regional situation more than just generation/blood potency.


  • #2
    I think that removes a major impediment to vampire characters.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      Real world vampire legends have only the broadest impact on VtM.

      Thin Blood are already not really 'full' vampires, not really, and it's historically been their wheelhouse to have the 'I walk in the day' power.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
        I think that removes a major impediment to vampire characters.
        Not really, since the daylight vulnerability is an invention from early moviemakers, except for about maybe 10% of all old Vampire legends and those are less the "normal Undead, but demons and outsiders which are attacked by the very nature of the realms.
        That many vampires has no major problems with daylight would add to the suspension of disbelief as well, since in former times pure nocturnal existance on the level we see in VtM was pratically impossible. Besides, even the Daywalkers of the old Vampire types preferred to do most activity throughout the night, since for most their powers were elevated by night.
        The "Day Drinker" merit as it is written is even less powerful than the "standard" for the old legends. Giving it more Vampires is not lifting an impediment per se, but more giving more and better options. Because at the end of the day, even the old sunlight unaffected Vampire types had to chose how to balance their day and nightlife, since they had to rest as well.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Günther View Post

          Not really, since the daylight vulnerability is an invention from early moviemakers, except for about maybe 10% of all old Vampire legends and those are less the "normal Undead, but demons and outsiders which are attacked by the very nature of the realms.
          None of which has any impact on game balance and storytelling.

          That many vampires has no major problems with daylight would add to the suspension of disbelief as well, since in former times pure nocturnal existance on the level we see in VtM was pratically impossible. Besides, even the Daywalkers of the old Vampire types preferred to do most activity throughout the night, since for most their powers were elevated by night.
          The "Day Drinker" merit as it is written is even less powerful than the "standard" for the old legends. Giving it more Vampires is not lifting an impediment per se, but more giving more and better options. Because at the end of the day, even the old sunlight unaffected Vampire types had to chose how to balance their day and nightlife, since they had to rest as well.
          It would also make hunters have a severe disadvantage when their primary benefit is as a daylight terror. Bluntly, vampires should be paralyzed during the daytime to give players a vulnerability to humans.

          At the very least, they should be totally poweless during the day so a gunshot straight up kills them or utterly helpless corpses.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #6
            I don´t like sun-walking yes there are legends of vampires who go to the beach but this takes part of the tragedy/curse aspect of being a vampire.Also it denies the advantaje of humans over the beast that lust for their blood.

            Sunlight in my games is very harsh , during the day you cannot spend blood to activate supernatural powers but the pasive buff still work.The Damage of sunlight and dice penalty for stay awake during the day is measured by bane severity.Thin Bloods can walk during the Twitlight and stay awake without the need of paying WP.The only ones that can day walk in my games are golcondites and they still cannot activate disciplines during the day.

            But of course in your games you can do whatever you want so if you want to make regional day walking vampires I would recomend you to make those a regional bloodline of a main clan a la kingdom of Ebony with would give a lot of play becuase ¿Have they reached golconda? , ¿Are they really vampires? , ¿Who was the Methtusaleah who started the line? , ¿It is posible that the clans where a bloodline in the past now ascended? ¿If the curse of the unconquered sun does not work on them was Caine a myth? etc... You could also make them Risens or or some kind of horror kinda like Hunter The Vigil from Crhonicles of Darkness after all not everything that sucks blood has to be a vampire.
            Last edited by Leandro16; 10-02-2018, 07:32 PM.

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            • #7
              The problem with that is that daylight activity is an immense advantage - one that should come with a package of commensurate disadvantages that is hard to reach without the "not really a full vampire" Thinblood.
              In addition, VtM vampires are not just local vampire legends. They're also pressed into a semi-harmonious whole, where the ability to walk in daylight is almost mythical, not something that should appear regularly except on those strange and mistrusted harbingers of Gehenna.
              Last edited by Cifer; 10-02-2018, 07:35 PM.

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              • #8
                Making it difficult for humans to detect and defeat Vampires is one major topic in German legends. It should not be easy at all, even the functioning ways to lay them to final rest are not easy. Vampires are Apex Predators of the night (and partly day), often sent as punishment from above. German (and South Slavian, Babylonian, etc.) Vampire legends take the aspect of the Vampire being a being which stands on the crossroads of Life and Death very serious.

                Leandro16
                The sunlight vulnerability of the movie era onward is a very flagrant and shallow part of the tragedy of Vampires. The Daywalkers feel their loss and distance to and their own humanity more keenly than those types banned from daylight. While for instance a Blutsauger, Vyrolakas or Nachtzehrer can still participate in normal life (if with some powers diminished), they are also part of the supernatural night and can never go fully back. and this night will come calling repeatedly. They are far more aware of what somewhat normal life they can hold on and the curse the operate under. They are far more invested in keeping the last vestiges of "Normal", seen in several legends very openly, than the vulnerable Vampires, for whom a certain alienation sets in soon, since normal life impacts them less than before.
                Last edited by Günther; 10-02-2018, 08:04 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Günther View Post
                  Making it difficult for humans to detect and defeat Vampires is one major topic in German legends. It should not be easy at all, even the functioning ways to lay them to final rest are not easy. Vampires are Apex Predators of the night (and partly day), often sent as punishment from above. German (and South Slavian, Babylonian, etc.) Vampire legends take the aspect of the Vampire being a being which stands on the crossroads of Life and Death very serious.

                  Leandro16
                  The sunlight vulnerability of the movie era onward is a very flagrant and shallow part of the tragedy of Vampires. The Daywalkers feel their loss and distance to and their own humanity more keenly than those types banned from daylight. While for instance a Blutsauger, Vyrolakas or Nachtzehrer can still participate in normal life (if with some powers diminished), they are also part of the supernatural night and can never go fully back. and this night will come calling repeatedly. They are far more aware of what somewhat normal life they can hold on and the curse the operate under. They are far more invested in keeping the last vestiges of "Normal", seen in several legends very openly, than the vulnerable Vampires, for whom a certain alienation sets in soon, since normal life impacts them less than before.
                  I point out that vampires prior to Nosferatu were completely comatose during the day with the exception of Dracula. Mythical vampires are still utterly nocturnal and helpless.

                  Carmilla and Dracula went against traditional lore by having them move around.

                  So, while a vampire wouldn't die during the day, they could thrown around like ragdolls because they couldn't wake up.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                    I point out that vampires prior to Nosferatu were completely comatose during the day with the exception of Dracula. Mythical vampires are still utterly nocturnal and helpless.

                    Carmilla and Dracula went against traditional lore by having them move around.

                    So, while a vampire wouldn't die during the day, they could thrown around like ragdolls because they couldn't wake up.
                    Not quite correct, Carmilla and Dracula are the first Vampires with worldwide reknown to be active during the day. Look at Bulgarian e.g. Vyrolakas legends, German-Austrian legends like about e.g. Blutsauger, Neuntöter, the Roman-Italian Strix or some Mesoamerican or Indian legends, which all can operate and do so in daylight, even if most of their activity is still nocturnal since their powers are elevated then.

                    One example a bit closer to pure nocturnal activity is the Indian Baital. Sunlight does not affect him, but is active during the day only if he absolutely must. Vyrolakas, Strix or several German/Austrian Vampire variants are on the other side of the spectrum. Sunlight does weaken their supernatural powers, but are not vulnerable to it. Unlike other daywalker like the mentioned Baital, who only operate during the day when forced by circumstances, these Vampire types are rather active during the day. For instance, legends of Vyrolakas with family (yep, their genitals still work) are very common in Bulgaria or Greece.
                    Last edited by Günther; 10-02-2018, 08:53 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Günther View Post
                      The sunlight vulnerability of the movie era onward is a very flagrant and shallow part of the tragedy of Vampires. The Daywalkers feel their loss and distance to and their own humanity more keenly than those types banned from daylight. While for instance a Blutsauger, Vyrolakas or Nachtzehrer can still participate in normal life (if with some powers diminished), they are also part of the supernatural night and can never go fully back. and this night will come calling repeatedly. They are far more aware of what somewhat normal life they can hold on and the curse the operate under. They are far more invested in keeping the last vestiges of "Normal", seen in several legends very openly, than the vulnerable Vampires, for whom a certain alienation sets in soon, since normal life impacts them less than before.
                      A majority of vampires where almost inmovile becuase althought sunlight didnt kill them they were so weakened to move.It is True that some legends , myths and games would allow you to daywalk others like the masquerade don´t.

                      Masquerade setting has his own mythos , there vampires are cursed bloodthirsty creatures banned from the face of the Unconquered Sun.Sunlight weakness has a theme and purpourse eliminating that is eliminating part of the game.But if you want to do it you can cuz rule zero , every master shapes his own world.

                      Also the games says that NOT ALL about vampire mythos is True in fact a lot of the myths about vampires are made by them to make hunters commit errors thanks to disinformation and to protect the masquerade.The Camarilla wants people to belive that vampires are just fiction.
                      Last edited by Leandro16; 10-02-2018, 08:43 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                        I point out that vampires prior to Nosferatu were completely comatose during the day with the exception of Dracula. Mythical vampires are still utterly nocturnal and helpless.

                        Carmilla and Dracula went against traditional lore by having them move around.

                        So, while a vampire wouldn't die during the day, they could thrown around like ragdolls because they couldn't wake up.

                        Uh. No. There are literally hundreds of pieces of folklore on vampires around the globe who have little to no problem moving about and acting during the day....much moreso than there are legends of 'vampires' that are helpless during the day or injured by sunlight.

                        We're all aware that the majority of Clans in VtM are based on movies though so they certainly aren't beholden to actual vampire folklore and legend.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Damian May View Post


                          Uh. No. There are literally hundreds of pieces of folklore on vampires around the globe who have little to no problem moving about and acting during the day....much moreso than there are legends of 'vampires' that are helpless during the day or injured by sunlight.
                          There are vampires and there's a 1000 other monsters.

                          I note people love to state there's similar legends but bluntly, it's flat out academic untruth to say a Pendagalan is a vampire versus being a Pendagalan.

                          Vampires are a very specific Eastern European folklore creature.


                          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                            There are vampires and there's a 1000 other monsters.

                            I note people love to state there's similar legends but bluntly, it's flat out academic untruth to say a Pendagalan is a vampire versus being a Pendagalan.

                            Vampires are a very specific Eastern European folklore creature.
                            So please tell me which of the dozens of Eastern European supernatural creatures that resemble 'vampires' are the 'real' vampires.

                            The pijavica, Mora, moroi, strigoi, the very varied types of Serbian vampires, upyr, vourdalak, vampire pumpkins?.....others?


                            Also its
                            Penanggal or Hantu Penanggal or Balan-balan.
                            Last edited by Damian May; 10-02-2018, 09:02 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Damian May View Post

                              So please tell me which of the dozens of Eastern European supernatural creatures that resemble 'vampires' are the 'real' vampires.

                              The pijavica, Mora, moroi, strigoi, the very varied types of Serbian vampires, upyr, vourdalak, vampire pumpkins?.....others?
                              Isn't that the point?

                              I.e. that vampires are one specific thing.

                              But if you are going to start combining and contrasting things, what makes the daywalking ones worth it versus non?


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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