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  • Potence

    Can someone explain why the potence powers of Prowess and Fists of Caine do not apply to melee weapons as well as unarmed damage? Is this a balance issue? Its very nonsensical to me.

  • #2
    For v5?
    Prowess adds half to melee damage as of the errata:

    "Prowess (p. 264):
    Change System text to: “When activated, add the Potence rating of the user to their unarmed damage value as well as to feats of Strength, and add half their Potence rating (round up) to their Melee damage.”

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    • #3
      My only suggestion would be that mortal weapons aren't made to be used with such extreme force? But yeah I suppose for balance as well, I mean look at that level 3 power that lets you one shot mortals/hunters/werewolves/mages/etc. Hell even if the damage is halved, putting another vampire to hunger 5 in one attack is pretty powerful too.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Captain Shoe View Post
        For v5?
        Prowess adds half to melee damage as of the errata:

        "Prowess (p. 264):
        Change System text to: “When activated, add the Potence rating of the user to their unarmed damage value as well as to feats of Strength, and add half their Potence rating (round up) to their Melee damage.”
        That's not what my PDF says. It only mentions the unarmed damage.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post

          That's not what my PDF says. It only mentions the unarmed damage.
          I assume that's why they mentioned it is in the errata.
          https://www.worldofdarkness.com/stor...Edition_Errata

          Comment


          • #6
            As above, Prowess has been errata-ed. Just an oversight on editing. I too was wondering the same until I saw that.

            Note: Fists of Caine is purely unarmed, never melee. You are literally tearing other creatures limb from limb. You know that whole Star Wars joke about Wookies that rip the arms off opponents who win at games? Same thing, minus the games.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post

              That's not what my PDF says. It only mentions the unarmed damage.

              There's an updated PDF that includes that errata and others, as a note.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by thebiglarpnerd View Post


                There's an updated PDF that includes that errata and others, as a note.
                Thanks for the info. Would you think it would break combat if I didn't halve the damage from melee weapons? It just seems unintuitive to me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post

                  Thanks for the info. Would you think it would break combat if I didn't halve the damage from melee weapons? It just seems unintuitive to me.
                  I wouldn't think so, but to be honest I'm considering bringing back the 3 levels of Damage again from past Editions as Aggravated (*), Lethal (x), and Superficial (/) seems like a good setup to me still. Halve Superficial, don't halve Lethal or Aggravated. Allow Kindred to heal Lethal like it were Superficial. Treat Lethal like Aggravated for Mortals in regards to healing, and allow Aggravated to represent supernatural damage that can't be healed at all for Mortals (giving them a whole new realm of terror to deal with).


                  -Red
                  V20 Content: Age & Potency
                  V5 Content: The Masquerade, Tzimisce and Vicissitude, Loresheet: Chicago, Resonance Flavor
                  Community & Project Manager, Developer at Hunters Entertainment

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post
                    Can someone explain why the potence powers of Prowess and Fists of Caine do not apply to melee weapons as well as unarmed damage? Is this a balance issue? Its very nonsensical to me.
                    For the same reason Celerity couldn't add dice to attack, or any close combat defense, outside dodge...

                    The errata is a right step, though, however, the half damage makes no sense. Ok, balance, but the point of weapons is that they are force multipliers,swinging them with extra strength shouldn't be less effective. I'd use it with full damage as well. Yes, it brings melee weapons up to the level of firearms, or even a bit better, in the hands of vampires with high potence, that's fine by me, I always liked the flavor of the old rules, where melee weapons caused lethal to vamps, where bullets only bashing. Since there's no separate lethal damage in V5, I think this is appropriate, to give that flavor. It also explains quite well why vampires might tend to use them instead of guns (aside from the availability and noise and tracking issues of course).

                    That weapons could break under that much strain... I'd use that only if they're missing "critically" (would be botch in the old system), ie. hitting the ground or walls, or something hard. Otherwise, it just means they cut deeper, or all the way through soft tissue and bones, kinda the thing weapons were designed again.


                    If nothing worked, then let's think!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                      For the same reason Celerity couldn't add dice to attack, or any close combat defense, outside dodge...

                      The errata is a right step, though, however, the half damage makes no sense. Ok, balance, but the point of weapons is that they are force multipliers,swinging them with extra strength shouldn't be less effective. I'd use it with full damage as well. Yes, it brings melee weapons up to the level of firearms, or even a bit better, in the hands of vampires with high potence, that's fine by me, I always liked the flavor of the old rules, where melee weapons caused lethal to vamps, where bullets only bashing. Since there's no separate lethal damage in V5, I think this is appropriate, to give that flavor. It also explains quite well why vampires might tend to use them instead of guns (aside from the availability and noise and tracking issues of course).

                      That weapons could break under that much strain... I'd use that only if they're missing "critically" (would be botch in the old system), ie. hitting the ground or walls, or something hard. Otherwise, it just means they cut deeper, or all the way through soft tissue and bones, kinda the thing weapons were designed again.
                      The system would still have the weapon work as a force multiplier, but the Kindred flesh acts against both equally because it's not *agg*

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                      • #12
                        Yeah I would still allow the damage to be halved by vampires since its not supernatural damage but I think a broadsword swung by a Nosferatu would be deadly and something that would probably kill anything not supernatural outright. A vampire would be able to resist the damage better but youd still have to take the same Nossie seriously in a battle if you had just your fists to contend with.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post

                          Thanks for the info. Would you think it would break combat if I didn't halve the damage from melee weapons? It just seems unintuitive to me.

                          I feel like it might, simply because damage is flatly added, and it's not a fun game if a character specced for combat can near one-shot torpor another character. But that's just my opinion.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post
                            Yeah I would still allow the damage to be halved by vampires since its not supernatural damage but I think a broadsword swung by a Nosferatu would be deadly and something that would probably kill anything not supernatural outright. A vampire would be able to resist the damage better but youd still have to take the same Nossie seriously in a battle if you had just your fists to contend with.

                            The way this system works isn't quite that way though, Unless the Nosferatu has those particular powers of Potence and activates them

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Illithid View Post

                              The system would still have the weapon work as a force multiplier, but the Kindred flesh acts against both equally because it's not *agg*
                              You misunderstood. I think the half damage from mundane sources is okay. Honestly, I liked the greater granurality of three damage tyes, but it's okay. I was speaking about that potence adds only half of its ating to melee damage, but full to brawl, which makes zero sense internally, just as not being able to use your super speed to block, parry, or strike, just to dodge doesn't make sense either.


                              If nothing worked, then let's think!

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