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Covenants to V5

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  • Covenants to V5

    Got V5, and in the process of converting some old V:tM and V:tR characters over - but one thing that is tickling the back of my mind is converting the Covenants from V:tR to V:tM. I think there's a solid place for them (and seriously, devotions as well) for 5e, but the question is - 'how'? I mean, there's the V20 / VtR conversion book, but V5 is different enough that I don't think it'd work as well as it could.

    Has anyone given this a go? I've an Invictus and an Ordo Dracul and a Circle of the Crone to convert over soonish.

  • #2
    Personally I would never convert character from CofD to WoD or the other way around. I just see no value in it. But anyway, my Personal opinion might not help you. Invictus is easy, since the Camarilla became more elite and the guardian of the Masquerade its basically the same but different. Which Clans do the other belong? I assume ordo Dracul might get complicated, there isn’t really something like it sect-vise in V5, but you might use the Golconda lore sheet to come close to it.

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    • #3
      Tashiro

      The basic mechanics of sect in V5 exist in only two main places.
      1. Backgrounds, especially Status.
      2. Loresheets appropriate to the specific sect.
      So, if your players are familiar with the VtR sects tell them which are active in the city, and which are active in the larger region. They can choose whether to purchase Status on their own. I would suggest developing two or three lore-sheets for each sect that's in the city, and offer them to your players. Maybe, even give them a couple free points at chagen to spend on them.

      The setting is arranged for use by the VtM sects, which is visible in certain rule mechanics not clearly linked to sect.

      For example, Tenets assume that all the pcs are operating in the same basic moral universe, using the same rules of behavior. This is, arguably, not the case with VtR since Humanity is less a morality meter and more a measure of how human you are. Also, in VtR the covenants (especially the less secular ones) operate in an almost culty manner, whereas sects presented in V5 core would be considered quite secular by the standards of the Ordo, Lancea, or Order of the Crone. If you port covenants into V5, you might want to consider adding a Tenet to represent the role covenants play in vampire ideology and morality. (eg "Follow the teachings of your sworn Covenant.")

      The other hurdle will be the advantages each covenant gives their members. This isn't a problem for the Invictus or Carthians, just give the pcs extra points for backgrounds and reduce the xp cost of backgrounds for them. The truly magical powers of the other covenants, though, becomes a problem. In VtM, nearly all disciplines are tied in some way to a specific bloodline or clan. The way you learn a discipline is by drinking from someone who knows it. The VtR "free agent" covenant powers will need some work on your part.

      The best way I can think of to handle this is as Advantages and Backgrounds. Ordo Coils look like Loresheets to me. Cruac and Theban Sorcery both look like Blood Sorcery. Just require a background trait to learn certain levels of rituals. Maybe, have the character's Status in the covenant limit what level of ritual they can learn.

      All this will require some work on your part, but seems quite do-able. If you do decide to wade into this project, don't forget to post your product. I am very much interested in seeing what you come up with.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
        Tashiro
        The other hurdle will be the advantages each covenant gives their members. This isn't a problem for the Invictus or Carthians, just give the pcs extra points for backgrounds and reduce the xp cost of backgrounds for them. The truly magical powers of the other covenants, though, becomes a problem. In VtM, nearly all disciplines are tied in some way to a specific bloodline or clan. The way you learn a discipline is by drinking from someone who knows it. The VtR "free agent" covenant powers will need some work on your part.
        Well, the Carthians and Invictus would also be a bit of a problem - The Invictus have their Oaths, which have a real, solid impact on the character, and the Carthians can 'nudge' a city a bit, adjusting what is and isn't possible within that region. I doubt we'd have Carthians, so that's less of a problem, but my sister does want to play her Ventrue, and another's interested in the Ordo Dracul. Hmm.

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        • #5
          I suggest making the covenants localized internal blood cults or something of that nature. The Invictus becomes an elite within the elite of the Camarilla, an "invite only" group. The Circle of the Crone a splinter cult of the Bahari. The Lancea Sanctum an odious heresy considered anathema to Noddists, The Ordul Dracul an order of blood sorcerers though not necessarily Tremere, perhaps part of the "occulted Sabbat", and the Carthians an elder group of Brujah, either gathering in secret within the Camarilla or a guiding force within the local anarchs.

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          • #6
            That's not a bad idea, I'll need to think it over. Hmm.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ruthven View Post
              I suggest making the covenants localized internal blood cults or something of that nature. The Invictus becomes an elite within the elite of the Camarilla, an "invite only" group. The Circle of the Crone a splinter cult of the Bahari. The Lancea Sanctum an odious heresy considered anathema to Noddists, The Ordul Dracul an order of blood sorcerers though not necessarily Tremere, perhaps part of the "occulted Sabbat", and the Carthians an elder group of Brujah, either gathering in secret within the Camarilla or a guiding force within the local anarchs.
              The small cabal concept could work well for the Ordo Dracul, Circle of the Crone, and the Invictus.

              Remember, for the Invictus, there is a paradox. Yes, they see themselves as the ultimate elite, but there need to be enough members in a city to have both the elite, and the elitest of the elite, and the even elite-ier elite. What's the point of a hierararchy if there are only three local members?

              The Lancea and the Carthians both offer a vision of how vampires should exist in the world. They sort of need to be able to exert their mode of unlife on others, of there's no point. I suppose there could be an isolated Lancea monastery or a Carthian kibbutz, but where do they go from there? You need more than that for either the salvation of the entire vampire race or a glorious worldwide revolution of the vampire masses to be believable goals.

              In V20, the covenants would work as the supporting organizations for various Paths and Roads.

              Invictus could be the administrative and political arm of the Road of Kings, with some modern upstarts exploring Power and the Inner Voice. Lancea would likely have a three-way schism between Road of Heaven, Path of Night, and Redemption. Carthians seem like Honorable Accord and Humanity, with an emphasis on Community. Circle of the Crone seems like Bahari at first, but Road of the Beast, Harmony, Feral Heart, and Cathari would all make cameo appearances in local covens. The Ordo would sweep up most of the odd-ball Paths studying the nature of vampirism itself or the transformation of the self, like Metamorphosis, Caine, Scorched Heart, Death and the Soul, etc.

              Of course, they would all have a large contingent (for some, like Carthians and Invictus, a majority or plurality) of members on Humanity.

              Translating that concept from V20 to V5 brings me back to including a Tenet that reads, "Follow the teachings of your Covenant". It grounds the covenants in actual mechanics.

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