Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Role playing Thaumaturgical Glossolalia

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Role playing Thaumaturgical Glossolalia

    I've read about the Thaumaturgical Glossolalia derangement in a few books and it says that someone who uses Thaumaturgy extensively will sometimes only be able to communicate through Hermetic symbology. It had never explained how to role play this however. I was wondering what you all though about how it should be played.

  • #2
    Is the question about how to portray Thaumaturgical Glossolalia in a game ; or how to roleplay a character's reaction to having this condition ? I will try to answer both.


    First, you have to decide in what way the Thaumaturgical Glossolalia functions for a particular Vampire ( Or decide how it functions in general, if you decide that it functions the same or very similar for every Vampire that has this condition. ) Several questions / issues have to be answered.

    It has to be decided when this condition occurs. " In times of stress or under tension " can be defined in many and various ways. For example it has to be decided whether relatively small mishaps or surprises can trigger this condition. Does it require the character to be in an unfamiliar situation or have her or his attention divided between several tasks or events ? Or is it more likely to happen when a Vampire is focused on something they know well, and there is an interruption, some doubt, or a surprise ? Maybe this condition triggers during more than one kind of circumstances ?

    Does being involved in regards to Thaumaturgy - for example using, teaching, researching, talking about - affects whether this condition triggers for a Vampire ? Do other persons being present change whether this condition triggers ; can the Vampire start talking and murmuring to herself or himself in thaumaturgical symbology while being alone ?

    What tend to be the words that the Vampire speaks when this condition triggers ? Does she or he describe the arrangements of materials used for Rituals ? Are reagents used for Thaumaturgy listed according to their spelling, or arcane categories ? Are specific steps undertaken by a caster of Thaumaturgy counted, and equations are done ? Are past rituals - successes and/or mistakes - recounted step by step, minute by minute ? Does the character try to describe and give specific names and terms to thaumaturgical symbols or diagrams that aren't called by any specific terms ? Does the Vampire chant names of Paths and Rituals in strict, rigidly changing sequences ? Or maybe she or he recites names of concepts and mystic assumptions of Thaumaturgy and individual Paths one after one in uninterrupted reverent whispering ?

    Assuming there is a variation in what and how the character utters after this condition triggers, do the circumstances or the character's state of mind change something within this variation ?
    Does this condition change and develop with time and / or specific events that happen ?

    Remember that this condition is the Vampire's mind being overwhelmed with thaumaturgical symbolism due to her or his use of Thaumaturgy. When the condition triggers the words are beyond the Vampire's control - it could be a lack of awareness of the occurring Thaumaturgical Glossosalia, or it could be a kind a trance ; or it could be something in between.



    In regards to roleplaying the character who has this condition : assuming that the Vampire is aware of this condition and it triggering, you have to decide whether she or he treats this as a negative condition that brings only unwanted occurrences. If not, then decide whether the Vampire's attitude is a neutral or a positive one ( or one that is not easily put in such categories ) .

    Does the Vampire relate this condition, and the words uttered due to it, to her or his use of Thaumaturgy ? If yes, does the Vampire think that there is something to learn from this condition in regards to Thaumaturgy ; or maybe she thinks that there is some overall wisdom in the utterances and words ?

    What is the reaction of other persons to this condition, assuming that they know about it ? What is the reaction of the character to those persons' attitude or actions in regards to her or him having this condition ?

    Assuming that the character identifies this condition and it triggering - what does the character think about other persons coming to know that she or he has this condition.


    Originally posted by Lord_Arion_diTanserville View Post
    and it says that someone who uses Thaumaturgy extensively will sometimes only be able to communicate through Hermetic symbology.
    Just to note - the thaumaturgical symbology used by Clan Tremere Vampires is distinct and different from the hermetic symbology used by the Order of Hermes.
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 10-08-2018, 01:52 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      If it ever comes up as something interesting to insert in a chronicle, recent research is showing that middleages middleeastern esoterism has much more in common with Western esoterism than previously believed, in terms of concepts and symbols. İn particular, hermetism was rife in certain Muslim philosophical traditions. Hermes (Trismegistus or one aspect of him) was identified with the Biblical Enoch and the Quranic İdris.

      İ know it's a bit off topic, but it might be nice to know for some stories. Think if a Tremere, a Setite and an Assamite all affected by thaumaturgical glossolalia suddenly start gibbering in the same gibberish while a moment before they assumed their traditions were totally different. Obviously Setite sorcery and Dur-An-Ki are varied traditions with especially Egyptian and Mesopotamian elements that greatly precede Hellenism (which is when Hermetism developed and spread from Persia to Spain and was then received by Byzantines, Sasanids and then Muslims), but it makes more historical sense (and it's sometimes mentioned in the fluff) if at least some trends in the varied traditions of Akhu and Dur-An-Ki are hermetic. These Tremere, always claiming they're so special...

      Comment


      • #4
        I was more wondering about how the afflicted would actually talk and how one would communicate in these terms like if someone is asked “where’s the keys to my Vespa” how does someone in thaumaturgical language say “on the kitchen counter”. Or would they just ignore the question and be like “The key of Solomon really has a number of hidden intcantations that extrapolate on the importance of true names in the calling of greater spirits”
        @hermeticus
        @muad’dib

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hermeticus View Post
          If it ever comes up as something interesting to insert in a chronicle, recent research is showing that middleages middleeastern esoterism has much more in common with Western esoterism than previously believed, in terms of concepts and symbols. İn particular, hermetism was rife in certain Muslim philosophical traditions. Hermes (Trismegistus or one aspect of him) was identified with the Biblical Enoch and the Quranic İdris.

          İ know it's a bit off topic, but it might be nice to know for some stories. Think if a Tremere, a Setite and an Assamite all affected by thaumaturgical glossolalia suddenly start gibbering in the same gibberish while a moment before they assumed their traditions were totally different. Obviously Setite sorcery and Dur-An-Ki are varied traditions with especially Egyptian and Mesopotamian elements that greatly precede Hellenism (which is when Hermetism developed and spread from Persia to Spain and was then received by Byzantines, Sasanids and then Muslims), but it makes more historical sense (and it's sometimes mentioned in the fluff) if at least some trends in the varied traditions of Akhu and Dur-An-Ki are hermetic. These Tremere, always claiming they're so special...
          I find it interesting that you think if a setite, an assamite, and a tremere walk into a bar and anything
          other than a 3 way certamen breaks out you have a few flaws in your logic lol
          Last edited by Lord_Arion_diTanserville; 10-08-2018, 11:09 PM. Reason: Spelling

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Lord_Arion_diTanserville View Post

            I find it interesting that you think if a setite, an assamite, and a tremere walk into a bar and anything
            other than a 3 way certamen breaks out you have a few flaws in your logic lol
            Lol let's say they were in the Elysium after the Assamites were accepted in the Camarilla and the Setites were being reviewed for entry after calling in their life boon and the tremere had been humbled a bit by their leadership having gone crazy for the Saulot-Tremere-Goratrix mess. And they were three rare, chilled tremere, assamite and setite, minus the glossolalia.

            Or perhaps the stress of the encounter is what triggered the glossolalia.

            Re: how does one speak in glossolalia: that beats my imagination BUT you might want to search online for Hermetic and Caldean texts and invocations and have the character suddenly start speaking in a way that resembles those texts, especially mentioning a lot of technical terms. Or have him speak the language of astral spirits (from Spirit Manipulation 2) even if he does not know it.

            'Where are the keys?' '[Name of the key spirit] [vocalization of a symbol for high] [name of the table spirit] [makes some strange hand gesture that would normally be part of some incantation]'

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lord_Arion_diTanserville View Post
              I was more wondering about how the afflicted would actually talk and how one would communicate in these terms like if someone is asked “where’s the keys to my Vespa” how does someone in thaumaturgical language say “on the kitchen counter”. Or would they just ignore the question and be like “The key of Solomon really has a number of hidden intcantations that extrapolate on the importance of true names in the calling of greater spirits”
              If anything it will be the second one or something else that will only barely reference the question about the keys. For example if the kitchen counter is made of wood, then the Vampire might start describing a Ritual that they cast or observed, that was performed with the items needed being placed on a wooden table.

              I think it is more likely that she or he will ignore the question. Describing anything else other than Thaumaturgy related concepts or topics does not get included in the Thaumaturgical Glossosalia. A Vampire might try to do speak ( assuming she hasn't entered a fugue state or a trance due to this condition ) about other topics, and it's one of ways to end a period of this condition being active. Though as I understand it, the effort put into trying to speak in a mundane way might just as well result in more sentences and words being said by her or him in thamaturgical symbology. The Vampire who has this condition might try to communicate and talk when it triggers ; but it will be thamaturgical symbology, topics, and concepts that she or he will try to communicate and express in what they say.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you both for making one of my first threads on this website so constructive and thought provoking. You both helped a lot. Thanks again.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Originally posted by Lord_Arion_diTanserville View Post
                  Thank you both for making one of my first threads on this website so constructive and thought provoking. You both helped a lot. Thanks again.
                  You are welcome.


                  I do find the Thaumaturgical Glossolalia condition to be very thought provoking, and interesting ; despite it possibly often being a disadvantageous condition.
                  The fact that this condition causes a focus on Thaumaturgy and it's symbolism to be vocalized to such a complete extent, does imply and suggest that there are is a large amount of deep potential and also of possible intensity in Thaumaturgy ; a Thaumaturgist only needs to properly express and define these possibilities, in order to be able to advance and ascend in understanding and proficiency.
                  When this condition triggers, words related only to Thaumaturgy symbolism replace all others ; this does underline and express the idea of supremacy of a Vampire who practices Thaumaturgy over material phenomena, items, and events ; and also over any concepts or ideas related to them. It does imply and suggest that as a Thaumaturgist, a Vampire has understanding, experiences, and capabilities that can be seen as - and maybe to an extent are - wholly distinct and separate from other possible areas of interest or action that a person can have.
                  Last edited by Muad'Dib; 10-13-2018, 02:27 AM.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X