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The Danava and the Ventrue

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  • #16
    Personally, I like the flavour and options presented.
    It didn't make sense that there wasn't Thaumaturgy in other clans.

    Just remember though, it's rare in those clans; and EVERY Tremere has Thaumaturgy and a system for mentors and occult Libraries

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Illithid View Post
      Personally, I like the flavour and options presented.
      It didn't make sense that there wasn't Thaumaturgy in other clans.

      Just remember though, it's rare in those clans; and EVERY Tremere has Thaumaturgy and a system for mentors and occult Libraries
      Well, strictly speaking, there are options in place for those with every sorcerous lineage and practice, especially for the fact the knowledge has to come from somewhere. It just may not be an older vampire with more skill in the sorcery teaching the student, nor a traditional book- or scroll-filled library. Hell, in the modern nights game where I'm playing a Telyav, her sire's worthless when it comes to teaching her Thaumaturgy, but she has a (nature) spirit mentor and a rather complex pact with it, as granularized through merits and flaws (mostly flaws), and very specific requirements to maintain her Humanity, Conscience, and Self-Control ratings. Hell, I'm also working on raising her Contacts, Allies, Influence, and Fame as applied to spirits and the Umbra.

      But unlike every one of the other fanged douchebags in the coterie, she can go traipsing through lupine country and probably make her way out unscathed.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

        Well, strictly speaking, there are options in place for those with every sorcerous lineage and practice, especially for the fact the knowledge has to come from somewhere. It just may not be an older vampire with more skill in the sorcery teaching the student, nor a traditional book- or scroll-filled library. Hell, in the modern nights game where I'm playing a Telyav, her sire's worthless when it comes to teaching her Thaumaturgy, but she has a (nature) spirit mentor and a rather complex pact with it, as granularized through merits and flaws (mostly flaws), and very specific requirements to maintain her Humanity, Conscience, and Self-Control ratings. Hell, I'm also working on raising her Contacts, Allies, Influence, and Fame as applied to spirits and the Umbra.

        But unlike every one of the other fanged douchebags in the coterie, she can go traipsing through lupine country and probably make her way out unscathed.
        Absolutely there are options for everyone else. My Point is that the entire Tremere clan has built itself around the discipline, making it available to even neonates, and if they're not allowed to learn something yet; having a reasonable process for getting permissions or rank.
        And yet again, every member of the CLAN has availability, it's not just a rare and esoteric bloodline.

        Telyav mostly fall into being a "Tremere" for this purpose.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

          I liked the fluff and the mechanics for non-Thaumaturgy blood sorceries, but the level of power creep and "vampion" factor left much to be desired.
          Can you explain what do you consider to be the "vampion factor" in regard to blood magic, and in general ?
          Last edited by Muad'Dib; 10-17-2018, 08:06 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Illithid View Post
            Absolutely there are options for everyone else. My Point is that the entire Tremere clan has built itself around the discipline, making it available to even neonates, and if they're not allowed to learn something yet; having a reasonable process for getting permissions or rank.
            And yet again, every member of the CLAN has availability, it's not just a rare and esoteric bloodline.

            Telyav mostly fall into being a "Tremere" for this purpose.
            I'm aware -- my point in turn is considering those resources in exclusively "traditional" terms, can skew a player's or ST's perception of those forms of blood sorcery, who has access to them and for what reasons, and how they're practiced over generations. Which, in turn, can influence perception of how common, or easily learned or practiced, they really are.

            I can't remember which book it was off-hand -- one of the later Revised edition books, to be sure -- that pointed out younger Tzimisce, especially in the Americas, were learning Koldunic sorcery...but not from the Old World and transplant elders through whom the tradition had been barely surviving. They were learning it directly from spirits.
            Last edited by Theodrim; 10-17-2018, 08:00 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
              What are some thoughts on how and when the Danava Ventrue split happened? Could it have been the Ventrue were a group more concerned with political/military power rather then spiritual? In the 2nd city do you think only the Danava existed? Do you think some of the Ventrue we know older then Mithras, the 4th gen, do you think any of the listed ones are actually Danava?

              Do you think the Danava are mistaken?

              In the 2nd city do you think Sadhana and Dur-an-ki existed in their earliest forms? Or do you think it was one tradition? Like do you think what Ur-shulgi practiced was a protoblood magic or functionally dur-an-ki, and that was different then say Veddartha and Sadhana?
              Few people know, but there were Indo-Roman trade relations, and Romans and Greeks frequented the ancient country of Tamilakan, in the southern tip of the Indian subcontinent. That's why I rewrote the Danava to state they started as a handful of Ventrue neophytes from the Roman Empire, until one of them diablerized a local 4th Generation Vampire. Nowadays, the Indian states of Kerala and Tamil Nadu are Danava territories, with basically all the local domains under the bloodline's control. They also consider the whole of Srilanka as their turf.

              The Danava blood sorcerers developed their arts after their colonization of the trading ports.

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              • #22
                I like the idea the Danava are older then 5k though.


                It is a time for great deeds!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                  The implication is all with you though. Authors have been wrong before, and other solutions given is there was a 4th Gen who also went by Veddartha, possibly even an Avatar like situation where the real Veddartha uses that body for business. I mean we do have stories and Artifacts referring to the Antediluvian Veddartha.
                  Please not this again. Most of Transylvania Chronicles II NPC sires were messed up on purpose (both Hardestadt "the Younger" and Maltheas).

                  - Saga

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                  • #24
                    I usually consider one of the eldest of the 4th generation Ventrue to be Balthazar (or "Belshazzar" mentioned in DAC and EV). I consider him the progenitor of the Ventrue from India, including Bindusara's (him being an actual historical figure) sire, and I also consider Balthazar to be adept at blood magic.

                    - Saga

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