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V20 - diablerie

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  • V20 - diablerie

    Hello All.,
    My Tremere PC is in a chronicle where the coterie is in inferiority on all fronts and the Sabbat enemies have just murdered a key human friend and ally of the party making the situation even worse.

    To add even more challenge, the members of the coterie are under a curse that will kill us pretty soon if we don't stop it.
    Role-playing wise my character is considering all avenues to avenge her death and neutralize the enemy before things get even worse.

    How would diablerie work besides the automatic humanity loss?

    Does the diablerist gain access to all the victim's disciplines (treated as in Clan or out of clan for progression?) ?

    How would the lowering of generation work?

    Does the diablerist gain xp points to manifest the increase of power if the victim is of lower generation?

    How long until the character can use the acquired power and skills?

    Finally, how would several acts of diablerie be treated in relation to the loss of humanity and the impact on the character's aura? Would other vampires with auspex be able to tell that there was more than on occurrence?

    My character wouldn't have been keen on this except that the challenge facing the coterie is massive and I don't see how to neutralize the dangers for the coterie, the city (vamps and humans) and the masquerade without going all out.

    Edit - for bonus points: what would happen if you drain a ghoul and "diablerize" it?

    Thank you for your input 😇
    Last edited by DuncanD; 10-17-2018, 03:52 AM. Reason: Adding a question about ghouls

  • #2
    The details of committing diablerie are on V20 core page 293 to 295. That'd be a good start for these questions.

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    • #3
      Thank you. I read that entry you mentioned but it's mainly about the how to and the immediate consequence of one act.

      I was wondering how ST here played it.

      Anyway, I realise that it would be complicated for my character to actually pull it of but I'm really considering all options

      Comment


      • #4
        IIRC, in RAW (V20) the only benefit to Diablerie is the decrease in Generation. Though I've seen plenty of house rules where you either get a free dot in one or all of the victims Clan Disciplines, XP towards developing Attributes, Abilites and Disciplines that the victim was an expert in and alot of other things of that nature. I think that V5 had some rules in regards to this (getting XP to develop victims highest stats).





        English is not my native language, so i apologize for errors in grammar or spelling.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DuncanD View Post
          Thank you. I read that entry you mentioned but it's mainly about the how to and the immediate consequence of one act.

          I was wondering how ST here played it.
          Oh. I mean, I'd probably just defer to the book for a lot of it. But I also typically play translated/modified VtR for my system.

          How would diablerie work besides the automatic humanity loss?
          Have to fully drain them. Strength check (difficulty of 9) until they are out of health levels. Having concentration broken ruins the chance to complete it. Automatic Humanity loss (I actually really dislike that aspect).

          Also, if the victim is of quite potent blood, probably do some rolls to see if they retain their personality to any degree.
          Does the diablerist gain access to all the victim's disciplines (treated as in Clan or out of clan for progression?) ?
          In the book, no. The rules only indicate (from what I recall) Generation gain and temporary (one scene) boost of some dots in your own disciplines.

          In the games I'm in, you can usually obtain one free dot in a discipline or skill the person knew if it was higher than your own, though.
          How would the lowering of generation work?
          If they're lower than you, you lower by one. If they're many steps lower or especially potent blood, you might go down more than one.
          Does the diablerist gain xp points to manifest the increase of power if the victim is of lower generation?
          The increase in power is the lowering of Generation itself, so I don't see a need to further increase rewards from it.
          How long until the character can use the acquired power and skills?
          RAW, I think it is immediately. Wouldn't hurt to make it take a couple nights if it is a multi-Generational jump, though.
          Finally, how would several acts of diablerie be treated in relation to the loss of humanity and the impact on the character's aura?
          The same. Arguably you'd have a darker aura with more uses, but I don't think this is reflected mechanically.
          Would other vampires with auspex be able to tell that there was more than on occurrence?
          Again, RAW, I don't think so. But I'm pretty sure some fluff describes it more as a gradiant. So I'd say yeah, they could tell some degree of quantity of acts.
          Last edited by Monalfie; 10-17-2018, 08:52 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Monalfie View Post
            If they're many steps lower or especially potent blood, you go down more than one.
            Core - no. You go down by 1, and if GM is feeling especially generous you might go down by more than one.
            V20 Black Hand book has an expanded diablerie system where you can roll dif 9 Strength checks for every additional generation you can gain.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
              Core - no. You go down by 1, and if GM is feeling especially generous you might go down by more than one.
              Edited for might instead of will.

              It is ultimately up to the ST. Though, there's an impression of likelihood in the text.

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              • #8
                Thank you for all your answers. I'll see what my ST thinks of this but I was hoping to find some elements to build my case and it would seem that while diablerie is used in lore in an efficient manner to gain power, it's not very practical for PCs to use it when pressed for time.

                Even if they were willing to pay the bill. And I believe our ST would make it a very significant one for a marginal increase in power.

                Once again, thank you for clarifying this.

                Comment


                • #9
                  With the exception of Monty/Mithras pretty much all examples of diablerie in the lore has had a difference of 1 generation. So the "drops generation by 1" ruling is mostly based on that. If the diablerie is complete, not a blending like Mithras and Monty, the diablerist should be the same generation as the victim.

                  How stats go after that, is up to the ST.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kael03 View Post
                    With the exception of Monty/Mithras pretty much all examples of diablerie in the lore has had a difference of 1 generation. So the "drops generation by 1" ruling is mostly based on that. If the diablerie is complete, not a blending like Mithras and Monty, the diablerist should be the same generation as the victim.

                    How stats go after that, is up to the ST.
                    This is interesting and gives me a new perspective. So if i understand correctly, if my 13th gen PC diablerizes a Sabbat vampire of the 9th gen, he would become 9th gen?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DuncanD View Post

                      This is interesting and gives me a new perspective. So if i understand correctly, if my 13th gen PC diablerizes a Sabbat vampire of the 9th gen, he would become 9th gen?
                      No it’s more for really potent and usually old vampires. 9th gen is too weak and would likely only make you 12th gen. But say a 6th may knock you down to 10 or 11th gen particularly if it was a close to methuselah age bloke you slurped.


                      It is a time for great deeds!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

                        No it’s more for really potent and usually old vampires. 9th gen is too weak and would likely only make you 12th gen. But say a 6th may knock you down to 10 or 11th gen particularly if it was a close to methuselah age bloke you slurped.
                        Other Ways to power up is through (mostly broken) Blood Magic.
                        Draw from the Bond (old lvl 4 Thaum ritual) gives you the Disciplines of a blood bonded kindred.

                        Degulo (sp?) A necro path of the skull at 5 gives you the opportunity to switch traits with a deceased victim.

                        And a telyav lvl 5 ritual that gives you 1 dot in each Discipline that you posess (temporarily but still).


                        So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DuncanD View Post

                          This is interesting and gives me a new perspective. So if i understand correctly, if my 13th gen PC diablerizes a Sabbat vampire of the 9th gen, he would become 9th gen?
                          Not really, as your 13th gen would most likely not have the willpower to fully consume the soul of a 9th gen that has stronger vitae and is, likely, several centuries older. You might meet somewhere in the middle, a round 10th generation. Monty was originally 11th gen when he consumed Mithras. Mithras was older and stronger so Monty wasn't able to fully consume his soul and complete the diablerie. Because of that he's now a 6th gen with the best/worst traits of both souls.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kael03 View Post

                            Not really, as your 13th gen would most likely not have the willpower to fully consume the soul of a 9th gen that has stronger vitae and is, likely, several centuries older. You might meet somewhere in the middle, a round 10th generation. Monty was originally 11th gen when he consumed Mithras. Mithras was older and stronger so Monty wasn't able to fully consume his soul and complete the diablerie. Because of that he's now a 6th gen with the best/worst traits of both souls.
                            I’m not assuming a 9th gen to be that Noticeably potent.


                            It is a time for great deeds!

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                            • #15
                              Our ST plays Diablerie a little different, all Diablerists have an aura (Little a) that people sense they have done something utterly unwholesome, so even without looking at the Aura (with Auspex) you can tell something is off.
                              You get your one increase in generation. No bonus XP or dots, but can spend XP to buy disciplines they had with no training time.

                              Technically, the Aura shows yes/no if you're a diablerist, but the ST might let elders or lots of successess determine that it's multiple.
                              Low levels of Blood Thaumaturgy will tell even once the Aura is cleared.

                              The Black Hand books goes in to detail for the ST on things like your character being taken over or permanently altered due to the effects of the diablerie (Change of Nature) as well.

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