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  • Out of curiosity, as I wait for downloads to finish, why are the sourcebooks being sold through Modiphius rather than from the World of Darkness online store?

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    • Originally posted by Robert D View Post
      Out of curiosity, as I wait for downloads to finish, why are the sourcebooks being sold through Modiphius rather than from the World of Darkness online store?
      Not anymore. Both are also available on DRPG.

      Camarilla V5

      Anarch V5

      Huh. I guess they decided to not try to undercut DRPG for these books.

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      • Not having them on DTRPG (and the corebook) was a mistake in the first place imo. It is one of the biggest Sites after all.

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        • I just finished this review for Booknest.EU.

          http://booknest.eu/reviews/charles/1...ethemasquerade

          4/5

          ANARCH is the first supplement for Vampire: The Masquerade's controversial but awesome Fifth Edition. Anarchs have always been something of the middle child of the setting due to the fact they get almost no respect from people who assume they're either part of the Camarilla but whiny poseurs or they're Sabbat-lite in that they're against the Elders but won't go to the extremes necessary to affect real change.

          For those unfamiliar with Anarchs period, the basic premise is they are the youngbloods of the largest sect of the setting. Born in the past century or earlier, for the most part, they are vampires who rebel against the neo-feudalist society of the Camarilla. In previous editions, they were still considered part of the Camarilla and protected by its laws. That changed in 5E with the Anarchs formally breaking with the Camarilla by killing its head and declaring open war against the sect. The Camarilla retaliated by expelling the Brujah clan from its ranks, removing its deadliest collection of fighters. This was great timing, of course, due to the fact mortal governments were actively trying to wipe out vampiredom behind-the-scenes.

          I personally think this is a good change because I've always felt the Anarchs were given the short end of the stick in the book. I find them inherently more interesting than the Sabbat and the iconic player character for the roleplaying game. Basically, as Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines showed, the most typical way to explore the game is to be a neonate who gets embraced and immediately finds other vampires stepping on them.

          Anarch has its ups and downs, though, and I'm less universally positive about it is than I am the main book. Oftentimes, the book is brilliant but there's a few places where it wanders of on tangents and feels less like a supplement on Anarchs than it does on Thin Bloods. The book also overly relies on in-universe fiction when I would have actually just appreciated some more straight up stat blocks and character write-ups. One of the most frustrating parts about Hunter: The Reckoning was the books were almost unreadable because everything from done in an in-character voice. This does the same to an extent (but is better written). However, most of my complaints are in absences rather than failures but I'll get into that later.

          First, the good, and it is very good. The Anarchs are finally depicted as a legitimate sect in their own right and a terrifying one at that. They have seized not only California but Las Vegas, Berlin, Cuba, parts of Australia, and a few other locations. They have killed the head of the Camarilla and it's clear there's many Anarchs who advocate open war against the sects. The book's primary narrator of Agata Starek is a homicidal diablerist and psychopath who would have probably been at home in the Sabbat were not for its own elders. We also get the redemption of fan-favorite Salvador Garcia, who has his attempts to sell the Kindred to the Kuei-jin retconned as Camarilla propaganda.

          I also appreciated the transformation of the Anarchs from being a mostly-American phenomenon to an international coalition of various gangs and organizations. There's scenes set all across the globe and each illustrates the various flavors of Anarch there. Indeed, the book feels like it's slightly more European than American with the Anarch Free States having made the United States' revolutionary movement a bit staid. I would have appreciated more African, Middle Eastern, and Asian treatment but I liked everything I did read.

          The book is also an unofficial campaign supplement for the Brujah, Gangrel, Ministry (Followers of Set) and Duskborn (Thin Bloods). Basically, everything you need to know about playing these kinds of characters is detailed within. It leads a bit off the Anarch theme with the Thin Bloods as they're not Anarchs, they're just Kindred who don't want anything to do with vampire society as a whole. We get some great stories about families struggling to live normal lives, however. The horrifying chat about whether it's okay to give a baby vampire blood or not is awesome, though. One of the stand-out bits of fiction in the book.

          I give the book major props for its use of guest stars as well. Characters like Jeanette Voorman, Smiling Jack, Theo Bell, and even E (a Thin Blood from Bloodlines) all make appearances with updates on their characters. There's also great little character moments like the fact Salvador Garcia is trying not to be jealous of Theo Bell, who has one-upped him in a way that he can't really match. Killing the Prince of L.A. was impressive but not nearly to the extent killing Hardestadt was.

          Now for the not-so good, I am going to say that some fans are going to be irritated by the fact it is doubling down on the "edginess" of 5E. There's a section for example of a BDSM couple of Anarchs that adds nothing to the storyline. I also note that "Rudi's Gang" is already making the rounds on forums and driving the usual suspects crazy. Rudi is an antifa internet activist whose group seems deliberately designed to drive certain gamers up the wall. Truth be told, I couldn't tell if he was attempting to be a parody of the people who hate "Social Justice Warriors" (which I proudly identify as) or the people who hate Social Justice Warriors. Which may be the point.

          I feel like Chicago's Anarchs, given they mounted a revolt against Lodin in the thirties and sixties both, should have had a bigger role ideologically in the development of the movement. Finding out what other Anarchs think of Modius and Maldavis would have been interesting to me from an international perspective--ditto the fact Critias is the founder of the Hellenistic Brujah. This is a surprising absence since Patricia Bollingbrook (a.k.a Tyler) has become a major figure revered centuries later.

          The book also has the same coherent manifesto of REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE:

          "What are you rebelling against?"
          "What have you got?"

          It's never spelled out why, precisely, Anarchs have such a problem with the Camarilla's system or what their specific greviances are. We know they want to embrace who they want, feed in whatever territories they like, and that's...about it. I feel like a lengthier description of what causes Anarchs to hate the organization would be better. As such, their fury is all the stranger because it's contrasted against the Sabbat's that at least has the Antediluvians and witch hunters backing it up.

          In conclusion, this is an excellent book that I recommend for people who want to add some real bite to the Anarchs (pun intended). Some people may claim the Setites have been too radically altered, losing the Brujah from the Camarilla hurts the sect, or that the Anarchs have become Sabbat-lite (when they became Anarchs-hard after 2nd Edition). I think this is definitely gives a lot of much needed context to the setting, though. I feel this book could have used a lot more crunch as well as an ideological basis for the Anarchs but, overall, my experience was quite positive.
          Last edited by CTPhipps; 11-08-2018, 06:13 PM.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • ^^^^^ Nice review. I'm going to give it a purchase and decide from there if I want the Cam book, too.


            PENTEX SUCKS.

            I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

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            • Both books should include huge warnings for including problematic content. Camarilla on Chechenia, and Anarch on drinking blood from babies. I have to sadly say, both books are crossing a line for me. So far, I have given WW the benefit of the doubt that half-sentences and feeding preferences were hastily done and not really carefully reviewed. Then White Wolf had this Twitch Stream where Jason Carl told us: We are sorry, we weren't considerate enough. We promise to do better. They even said that they were going to take extra time to vet Camarilla and Anarch for goof-ups. Then we get the preview PDFs of those books. Camarilla devotes pages to Chechenia, casually mentions the death camps as "diversion" from the real issues. Anarch devotes two pages on an in-game discussion about how much blood you can take from a baby without killing them. These are no half-sentences anymore. These are deliberate things with at least 2 pages in each book.

              I've stood up vocally for White Wolf and the new rulesystem. Then this.

              Back in the 1990ies, White Wolf was one of the first companies to portray LGBTQI+ people in a positive light. Here, they were not only mentioned, but clearly painted in a positive light. In the 21st century, we get death camps? This is hugely insensitive.

              Next on to the baby stuff. Since vampiric feeding is often painted as a sexual metaphor, what does that leave us with in the Anarch book?

              Again, back in the 1990ies, truly controversial stuff was reserved for the Black Dog label. Here, we get hit with two sensitive topics portrayed in a very callous, insensitive way. All with mere "Mature Audience" label. Sorry, I am not able to deal with this in a gamebook. And I don't think a gamebook is the place to deal with such topics.

              For me that's it. I am going to pass on the 5th edition of the World of Darkness. I cancelled my preorders tonight, and I am appalled at what White Wolf has become.

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              • *sigh* I'm really tired of everything I enjoy being torn apart by both SJW's and alt-righters. One side screaming it's problematic, the other side screaming it's pandering to snowflakes. Like what you want to, but don't claim it is morally wrong because you don't like it. As for the feeding issue, yes it is often very sexual, but it is only described as overwhelming pleasure. Pleasure is not always sexual. Anyone who has ever experienced IV opiates can tell you that that rush is far more powerful than any orgasm. That's always how I imagine the feeling for mortals. So feeding on a baby is not inherently sexual.

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                • Originally posted by Murder-of-Crows View Post
                  Both books should include huge warnings for including problematic content. Camarilla on Chechenia, and Anarch on drinking blood from babies. I have to sadly say, both books are crossing a line for me. So far, I have given WW the benefit of the doubt that half-sentences and feeding preferences were hastily done and not really carefully reviewed. Then White Wolf had this Twitch Stream where Jason Carl told us: We are sorry, we weren't considerate enough. We promise to do better. They even said that they were going to take extra time to vet Camarilla and Anarch for goof-ups. Then we get the preview PDFs of those books. Camarilla devotes pages to Chechenia, casually mentions the death camps as "diversion" from the real issues. Anarch devotes two pages on an in-game discussion about how much blood you can take from a baby without killing them. These are no half-sentences anymore. These are deliberate things with at least 2 pages in each book.

                  I've stood up vocally for White Wolf and the new rulesystem. Then this.

                  Back in the 1990ies, White Wolf was one of the first companies to portray LGBTQI+ people in a positive light. Here, they were not only mentioned, but clearly painted in a positive light. In the 21st century, we get death camps? This is hugely insensitive.

                  Next on to the baby stuff. Since vampiric feeding is often painted as a sexual metaphor, what does that leave us with in the Anarch book?

                  Again, back in the 1990ies, truly controversial stuff was reserved for the Black Dog label. Here, we get hit with two sensitive topics portrayed in a very callous, insensitive way. All with mere "Mature Audience" label. Sorry, I am not able to deal with this in a gamebook. And I don't think a gamebook is the place to deal with such topics.

                  For me that's it. I am going to pass on the 5th edition of the World of Darkness. I cancelled my preorders tonight, and I am appalled at what White Wolf has become.
                  You are absolutely entitled to behave in such a manner and you should never support content that you do not believe in. White Wolf has a history of being massive supportive of the queer community and is the first RPG company to promote diverse content. Before you do the above, though, I should point out that the Camarilla entry caused me to investigate the horrible treatment of homosexuals in Chechyna and raised my awareness of the action as well as encourage me to want to work against such horrific conditions. I don't know what as an American I can do about it but believe the inclusion in the gamebook was a way to bring attention to a horrific human rights abuse not covered in my media.

                  As for the drinking blood from babies, that was something I took as a parody of parent chat rooms where there's often incredible ignorance. It was a horror-comedy scene.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • Originally posted by emmameta View Post
                    As for the feeding issue, yes it is often very sexual, but it is only described as overwhelming pleasure. Pleasure is not always sexual. Anyone who has ever experienced IV opiates can tell you that that rush is far more powerful than any orgasm.
                    I won't argue on the nature of feeding being sexual; there is fiction where it isn't, though the Vampires that Masquerade takes it's main inspiration from include Bram stoker and Camille, where it was the metaphor for sexuality.
                    So I'll start with where your point is - "Pleasure is not always sexual"
                    That means, it is usually or sometimes sexual.
                    Therefor it is, at the very least on the nose to have an act that is usually or sometimes sexual described with an infant.

                    There has been uproar in the V5 Alpha about the choice of feeding restriction for the Ventrue because "During the production of V5 that team has made some unforced errors, including toeing the line of pedophilia in one early playtest adventure." Polygon Article 25/7/18

                    Involving Babies is ridiculous when they know what issues were raised earlier with similar content.

                    ‚ÄčI think Murder-of-Crows point is that they promised to do better, and didn't. Not that it was in there in the first place.

                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                    As for the drinking blood from babies, that was something I took as a parody of parent chat rooms where there's often incredible ignorance. It was a horror-comedy scene.
                    Surely however you can see that others might not take it that way. Did it actually bring anything to the book and understanding of the game in that context? Compared to the risk it's not taken in that context?

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                    • Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                      Surely however you can see that others might not take it that way. Did it actually bring anything to the book and understanding of the game in that context? Compared to the risk it's not taken in that context?
                      I felt the scene was an attempt to highlight that a vampire is inherently toxic to their mortal families. The idea behind Thin Bloods wanting to simply say, "No, I'm staying with my mom and dad" is something that has come up with many of their storylines. This is showing the toxicity of a vampire and why he can't stay with his wife, children, or other people. They are a bad influence to any mortals around them.

                      Mind you, I felt that was a highlight of the book and had more criticisms for other sections.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                        I felt the scene was an attempt to highlight that a vampire is inherently toxic to their mortal families. The idea behind Thin Bloods wanting to simply say, "No, I'm staying with my mom and dad" is something that has come up with many of their storylines. This is showing the toxicity of a vampire and why he can't stay with his wife, children, or other people. They are a bad influence to any mortals around them.
                        Mind you, I felt that was a highlight of the book and had more criticisms for other sections.
                        I've not read the section yet and I hope it comes across as you say, because I've felt for a long time that th game can miss out on the "Eat only ash" Aspects of Caine's Curse
                        Last edited by Illithid; 11-11-2018, 06:28 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by Illithid View Post

                          I've not read the section yet and I hope it comes across as you say, because I've felt for a long time that th game can miss out on the "Eat only ask" Aspects of Caine's Curse
                          I may have been primed because the section reminded me of an adventure from before my Chicago Chronicle (see the thread):

                          "Knowledge too terrible to hold"

                          The player characters are contacted by Anita Wainwright, who is their friend, and she asked them to investigate her friend Ashley. Ashley has just frenzied and killed a couple of mortals and has done it again, injuring a couple more. She's also abandoned her entire mortal life, which bothers Anita because Ashley is one of the kindest, sweetest, nicest vampires you'll ever meet. She's also a Thin Blood so that isn't just hyperbole.

                          I'll spare you the rest of the story but the short version is the PCs eventually track her down but not before they're contacted by (of all people) Bobby Weatherbottom who says "Whatever you do, DON'T try to figure this out. Just bring her to me and I'll pay you. No questions asked, I'll make it better." The PCs eventually figure out why after investigating her house and following up leads.

                          Ashley was turned into a Thin Blood and tried to continue her suburban existence with her dhampyr child that she absolutely loved. However, her husband was eventually disgusted by her existence and attacked her with a knife. Her escaped and then she was driven mad by the smell of the blood and fed on her own 6 month old baby (she botched on the self-control roll, so to speak). She tried to kill herself, failed, and then Bobby Weatherbottom erased it from her memory with a fake memory.

                          She's now remembering and believes her husband killed their child and is hunting them, in a VERY dangerous state.

                          The PCs must decide what to do with her, the husband, and so on. Very good personal horror.


                          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                          • About the Banu Haqim in Camarilla Sourcebook...

                            I've not make an in depth read of the book yet, but there is one thing that draw my attention. There is practically no mention of the Sorcerer Caste in the book, in fact there are explicit exclusions in clan's writeup (page 160): "...The entire Vizier Caste and many of the Warriors..." referring to clan's defectors to Camarilla. Later referring to embrace habits (pag 161), the text avoid mentioning the Sorcerer Caste again.

                            (Sorry for my bad english)

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                            • I wouldn't be surprised if it's the Viziers who practice magic now and at a much smaller number.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                                Before you do the above, though, I should point out that the Camarilla entry caused me to investigate the horrible treatment of homosexuals in Chechyna and raised my awareness of the action as well as encourage me to want to work against such horrific conditions. I don't know what as an American I can do about it but believe the inclusion in the gamebook was a way to bring attention to a horrific human rights abuse not covered in my media.
                                Uh, its been widely covered in worldwide media including American, I'm very surprised that anyone doesn't know about it. Hell, I'm in the Murdoch dominated hellhole that is the Australian Media Environment and its been in the news here for at least 12-18 months.

                                The inclusion was for cheap shock value....hell they made the actual current Chechen President a fucking vampire for gods sake....its a travesty.
                                Last edited by Damian May; 11-09-2018, 05:07 AM.

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