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  • #16
    Originally posted by Faerl View Post
    SalamanDer I don't know for you, an Antedelivian that Augustus Giovanni did it respond to your definition of something godly big and bad, clearly hunting them all ?

    For me it's yes, you are free to interpret like you wish
    No, if the Antedeluvian is hunting only the Giovanni.
    I'd like to remind that Giovanni exterminated the Cappadocians and then actively hunted most of the Cappadocian scions, that for centuries reacted in kind.
    So if now there's a big bad whatever hunting the Giovanni (only the Giovanni), why the Harbingers shouldn't just stretch on the sofa munching popcorn and enjoying the show?


    Dark Shores: Lineages of the Great Lakes
    Fingers of the Eldest: Bogatyri

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    • #17
      Sorry, SalamanDer,

      We are on the same tune, the spirit of Cappadocius is hunting and destroying Giovanni.
      But it is not the only threat for Giovanni, the Second Inquisition strike on them like all vampires.
      Harbringer of Death, surviving Cappadocians, Wraiths will all be happy to strike down Giovanni.

      If the Hecata are well Harbringer of Death and they ally to Giovanni, there should be a BIG plot behind this but I don't have anymore reference more that Giovanni having to ally to a brother clan / bloodline.


      Pure guess from my side :
      If it is Hecata, it may be to leave the Sabbat and it open war with Antedilivian and buid an alliance that allow to survice to Second inquisition.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Faerl View Post
        Sorry, SalamanDer,
        no offense given, no offense taken

        Originally posted by Faerl View Post
        We are on the same tune, the spirit of Cappadocius is hunting and destroying Giovanni.
        But it is not the only threat for Giovanni, the Second Inquisition strike on them like all vampires.
        Harbringer of Death, surviving Cappadocians, Wraiths will all be happy to strike down Giovanni.
        And not only them, the Giovanni neutrality makes them uncomfortable city-dweller for all the other sects. Even Setites are sometimes more welcome than them...


        Originally posted by Faerl View Post
        If the Hecata are well Harbringer of Death and they ally to Giovanni, there should be a BIG plot behind this but I don't have anymore reference more that Giovanni having to ally to a brother clan / bloodline.
        Yeah, if they really allied I expect to be a good reason for that. A reason better than "we're all Clan of Death, let's be friends"... I mean, it's like Salubri suddenly decides to befriend Tremere only because some of them randomly get a third eye. :P

        Originally posted by Faerl View Post
        Pure guess from my side :
        If it is Hecata, it may be to leave the Sabbat and it open war with Antedilivian and buid an alliance that allow to survice to Second inquisition.
        I have my pet thory that the V5 is trying to turn the Camarilla VS Sabbat theme of the Revised in a conflict more or less cold between four or more sects.
        So if we have Camarilla One-percenters, Sabbat Survivors, Reborn Anarchs, we still need a fourth sect
        that may well be the "Indipendents" affiliated with Marcus Vitel (and let's not forget that Vancouver was already an Indipendent city in the Revised), so if these Hecata really become a thing, they could join the Vitel faction, or even stay full indipendent, creating their own mini-vampiric society of death worshippers...
        (and there are still out there the Oradea League, the Ashirra and at least another 2 o 3 minor sects, even without dragging in Tal'mahe'ra and Inconnu)
        Last edited by SalamanDer; 11-11-2018, 01:38 PM.


        Dark Shores: Lineages of the Great Lakes
        Fingers of the Eldest: Bogatyri

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        • #19
          Couldn't help but notice that in the example given of a Church of Caine ceremony, there wasn't any mention of the Ravnos Antediluvian or Saulot and their childer.

          Admittedly, they also forgot to include the Tzimisce and I doubt they're going anywhere.

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          • #20
            As a fan of both the Ravnos and the Giovanni, this makes me hate V5 even more than I already did before.

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            • #21
              Something to keep you guessing, but I read somewhere that Cappadocius actively planned to replace his defunct Clan on purpose. Basically understanding that after the Feast of Folly, his Clan was a failure and needed more ambitious people. Hence the Giovan(n)i were introduced.

              My take: C/A is a prick, I hate that guy. The recent escapees of the FoF are what interests me the most. Disenfranchised Cappadocians, discarded by their antediluvian, embrace modern people, so you get modern era Cappadocians without Lazarene torment and disfigurements (and power level). It’s a graceful way to reintroduce them to modern play. Goth chicks, dudes and enbies alike.

              EDIT: Holy crap, I missed the fact that Lord Camden is still around to tell his story, which means he's a contemporary-if-ancient Cappadocian. This is big news for me. I just wonder how he looks /// EDIT: ahh, so he still looks Cappadocian, nice.
              Last edited by zydake; 11-15-2018, 08:01 AM.




              also: Mummy the Curse
              I buy all other books usually on DriveThruRPG.

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              • #22
                I first wanted to make my own thread, then remembered this one is still fresh. Here we go.

                When we hear "Clan of Death"; what Clan do you think of? Giovanni? Cappadocian? Yes, Cappadocians were retroactively added to the game, which explains why the Book of Nod has Giovanni as Clan of Death. But see, I like that it's a complicated past. However, in light of the streamlining going on in V5, something fresh is needed.

                Clan Hecata. Hecate, the goddess, has three faces. This is a good indicator that it is compromised of several related offshots that all share one thing in common: their obsession with Death and mastery of Necromancy. What do you think, will the faces of the Clan (not necessarily three) be? And will they get their own Disciplines (legacy) or will something be done to unify them?

                Possible Faces
                Cappadocian: Auspex, Fortitude, Necromancy
                Giovanni: Dominate, Potence, Necromancy
                Nagaraja: Auspex, Dominate, Necromancy
                Samedi: Fortitude, Obfuscate, Necromancy

                Will we see all of them, unified under Clan Hecata, or will we get a new meta-Clan that basically only has Necromancy as confirmed discipline?

                I'm very thrilled to finally be able to have a contemporary, modern take on the Cappadocian back. I played my character in an ongoing online game for several years; this is good news for me. But fear not, I'm not a Giovanni-hating nasty person. I also played a Giovanni in our ongoing Vampire Live chronicle, up until pressure got too high, and I was forced to retire the character (thanks, Vienna's Wiener Blut, for ruining my character lol).

                As for Necromancy: most likely we will see a similar take and unification to Blood Sorcery, and I agree with that. Paths aren't exactly necessary. Amalgam-Powers are very likely to preserve some unique differences between the faces.




                also: Mummy the Curse
                I buy all other books usually on DriveThruRPG.

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                • #23
                  I hadn't thought about Hecate having three faces, but that most likely has some impact, as well as her being amongst other thing a Death goddess. There were some some clues as to all this in BJD, but it's been a while so i can't fully remember which groups signed up. If they were going to do it as 3 'clans' in one, each with their own spread, my guess would be:

                  Possible Faces
                  Cappadocian: Auspex, Fortitude, Oblivion
                  Giovanni: Dominate, Potence, Oblivion
                  Samedi: Fortitude, Obfuscate, Oblivion

                  However, i don't believe that is the way they will go - especially after the streamlining we've seen and the ignoring of the Bloodlines so far. i think it will look like the Classic Cappadocians: Auspex, Fortitude, Oblivion. i expect the Bane to be closer to Cappadocians as well (With Bane severity representing how decomposed you are). This serves a number of purposes, first i provides a nice, sort of in continuity reason for the Lazarenes and Samedi to look so much worse (i know not all Samedi are ancient, but they have an older starting point), it also gets rid of the Giovanni curse which i think would be really difficult, potentially unusable under the new system - imagine adding damage equivalent to you Bane level for each time you feed/hunger point you quench!

                  i'm not sure what i want, i like the warring factions of the clan of Death, and i don't think i'm alone in considering them a personal favorite, and even more so when it comes to metaplot and mysteries. However, this will give them a burst of Life and make them more playable. Regardless of what it looks like officially, i'm sure it will be good and logical, and i can still do what i want anyway, they old books are still there and it's not difficult to port things to V5 anyway.

                  One final thought, a quick Hecate google brings up many references to 'The Crone'. can't be a coincidence. Might we see a resurgence of the Lamia?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
                    Might we see a resurgence of the Lamia?
                    I would like that, to be quite honest. Regarding "Oblivion", I obviously have missed the memo. Is that the new name for Necromancy? Exactly why it is Oblivion is beyond me tho, since that rings only of the destructive, nihilistic aspect of Death.




                    also: Mummy the Curse
                    I buy all other books usually on DriveThruRPG.

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                    • #25
                      Oblivion is the new name for Obtenebration as revealed on the CbN youtube session last week. It was also mentioned and strongly hinted/confirmed that it is also the same discipline now as Necromancy - in the same way Protean and Serpentis have merged.

                      HOWEVER, this isn't to say that Lasombra now control ghosts. Hecata haven't been detailed properly yet of course, but this will most likely take the form of optional power level available to Hecata or something like that - in the same way Ministry have eyes of the serpent as a Presense power now. Personally i can see the connection - the Abyss and Oblivion were essentially the same thing - now we have two clans that can manipulate the power in that to different ends. You won't be surprised to hear this all caused uproar, but until i see it i'll reserve judgement, and if i don't like it, i won't use it

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
                        Oblivion is the new name for Obtenebration as revealed on the CbN youtube session last week. It was also mentioned and strongly hinted/confirmed that it is also the same discipline now as Necromancy - in the same way Protean and Serpentis have merged.
                        I think Matthew has already debunked that as a misunderstanding The Gentleman Gamer, right?

                        EDIT: my bad, I misunderstood the clarification bit
                        Last edited by zydake; 11-19-2018, 05:37 AM.




                        also: Mummy the Curse
                        I buy all other books usually on DriveThruRPG.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
                          There were some some clues as to all this in BJD, but it's been a while so i can't fully remember which groups signed up
                          The Capadoccians under Angelique, Harbingers and Samedi. If Capadoccius rears his head, the Lazarenes might ally with the Johns for revenge. They also wanted to destroy the Pisanob, which the Johns seemed willing to concede and my guess would be has happened. Harbingers and Angelique would play nice if the Capuchin told them to.

                          The Samedi would be the wild card in that union. I have no idea why they would join now, but it might have to do with the Drowned or that new voudoun sect in New Orleans

                          Also if Pochtli and some Pisanob survived I bet they allied with Sabbat or the Drowned

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
                            Personally i can see the connection - the Abyss and Oblivion were essentially the same thing
                            I have to disagree. At the very least, in some games the Abyss has represented an entirely different entity or place from Oblivion, even if they occupy the same neighborhood. In Demon the Fallen, it is the prison God made for the demon while in Vampire, it was a place that Lasombra skilled in Obtenebration could actually use as a means of travel. Both of these things would be impossible if it was Oblivion which represents pure nonexistence.

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                            • #29
                              We should see the new Oblivion discipline in backer previews next week. It is likely some of our questions will be cleared up by that.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by zydake View Post

                                I think Matthew has already debunked that as a misunderstanding The Gentleman Gamer, right?
                                I'm saying nothing

                                Check out the Chicago by Night updates next week.


                                Matthew Dawkins
                                In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


                                Website: http://www.matthewdawkins.com
                                Patreon: http://https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

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