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V5 - Clan of Death and Ravnos question

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  • Robert D
    started a topic V5 - Clan of Death and Ravnos question

    V5 - Clan of Death and Ravnos question

    As 7 of the Thirteen clans are shown in the core book of V5, and one more clan is shown in each of the following: Anarchs, Camarilla, and Chicago by Night, and the future Sabat book will feature another one, do you all think the remaining two Independent clans will get an "Independents" sourcebook, or each get a supplement in the vein (pardon the pun) of Chicago by Night?

  • Robert D
    replied
    THE HECATA ARE COMING!!!! http://theonyxpath.com/episode-34-li...rom-midwinter/ in the podcast the Gentleman Gamer officially announces that Onyxpath will be writing Cults of the Blood Gods, which WILL INTRODUCE THE HECATA INTO VAMPIRE 5E!!!!! (also see http://theonyxpath.com/schedule/ )

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  • Robert D
    replied
    Thoughts on the Last Three Clans

    Now that we've got two models for introducing the remaining clans (1 - Sect book like Camarilla did for Banu Haqim and Anarchs did for the Ministry, 2 - by Night city sourcebook as Chicago by Night did for Lasombra), My proposed theory is that there will be a Sabat sect book to introduce the Tzimisce, and that there will either be an Independents sect book to introduce the Hecata and the Ravnos, OR there will be a Boston or Venice by Night to introduce the Hecata (both cities having strong Giovanni ties) and a by Night book focused on a place the surviving Ravnos are gathering to preserve their numbers (perhaps D.C. with its prince being a member of a now no longer fully Sabat clan? or L.A. where traditionally the Anarch Free States have drawn a number of non-Camarilla Kindred?)

    My personal hope is for the Hecata book to be created first (always been a huge fan of the Cappadocian Dark Ages clan and would love to see what shape the Clan of Death takes in V5 modern nights (ESPECIALLY what ritual aspects and new discipline powers are revealed as the focus of the Clan of Death in the new Oblivion Discipline introduced in Chicago by Night). There is a great thread in the forums looking at possible Hecata disciplines: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...cipline-spread
    I rather like the idea in that thread that there will be a mix of the previous edition's necromancy wielding clans' disciplines in the Hecata. Definitely Oblivion, with the other two being some combination of either Auspex or Dominate for a mental discipline and and either Fortitude or Potence for a physical one. Fortitude would be my vote for the physical as it ties in with the old Cappadocian idea of making the Kindred body as resilient as a true corpse. Dominate could have interesting applications as a prereq for amalgam Oblivion powers to command ghosts, while Auspex could grant prereqs for Oblivion powers to perceive more information about the dead, though that could also come from rituals attached to Oblivion.

    That said, I do know the Sabat book and the Gehenna War and the Beckoning it will undoubtedly discuss in greater detail are eagerly awaited by many fans (and hopefully let us know if Koldunic Sorcery exists in V5 in some form for clan Tzimisce and what powers will be created to represent Vicissitude in the 5th edition: personal thought - Vicissitude could be linked to Sabat Rites or Rituals attached to Protean given its focus on inhuman transmutation of flesh and bone, thus largely if not completely practiced by Sabat members of the Clan, while Koldunic Sorcery could largely be Rituals attached to the Protean Discipline since Meld into Earth and Mistform could definitely have Koldunic interpretations). Theorized Tzimisce clan disciplines: Auspex, Animalism, and either Protean or Dominate if Old Clan Tzimisce are still an option.

    I think we'll see the Ravnos Chimerstry Discipline appear in the form of new Obfuscate illusion powers, making their clan disciplines Animalism, Fortitude and Obfuscate.

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  • The Gentleman Gamer
    replied
    Originally posted by zydake View Post

    I think Matthew has already debunked that as a misunderstanding The Gentleman Gamer, right?
    I'm saying nothing

    Check out the Chicago by Night updates next week.

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  • Robert D
    replied
    We should see the new Oblivion discipline in backer previews next week. It is likely some of our questions will be cleared up by that.

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  • HardestadtTheEvenYounger
    replied
    Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
    Personally i can see the connection - the Abyss and Oblivion were essentially the same thing
    I have to disagree. At the very least, in some games the Abyss has represented an entirely different entity or place from Oblivion, even if they occupy the same neighborhood. In Demon the Fallen, it is the prison God made for the demon while in Vampire, it was a place that Lasombra skilled in Obtenebration could actually use as a means of travel. Both of these things would be impossible if it was Oblivion which represents pure nonexistence.

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  • El Barto
    replied
    Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
    There were some some clues as to all this in BJD, but it's been a while so i can't fully remember which groups signed up
    The Capadoccians under Angelique, Harbingers and Samedi. If Capadoccius rears his head, the Lazarenes might ally with the Johns for revenge. They also wanted to destroy the Pisanob, which the Johns seemed willing to concede and my guess would be has happened. Harbingers and Angelique would play nice if the Capuchin told them to.

    The Samedi would be the wild card in that union. I have no idea why they would join now, but it might have to do with the Drowned or that new voudoun sect in New Orleans

    Also if Pochtli and some Pisanob survived I bet they allied with Sabbat or the Drowned

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  • zydake
    replied
    Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
    Oblivion is the new name for Obtenebration as revealed on the CbN youtube session last week. It was also mentioned and strongly hinted/confirmed that it is also the same discipline now as Necromancy - in the same way Protean and Serpentis have merged.
    I think Matthew has already debunked that as a misunderstanding The Gentleman Gamer, right?

    EDIT: my bad, I misunderstood the clarification bit
    Last edited by zydake; 11-19-2018, 05:37 AM.

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  • chipotlechris
    replied
    Oblivion is the new name for Obtenebration as revealed on the CbN youtube session last week. It was also mentioned and strongly hinted/confirmed that it is also the same discipline now as Necromancy - in the same way Protean and Serpentis have merged.

    HOWEVER, this isn't to say that Lasombra now control ghosts. Hecata haven't been detailed properly yet of course, but this will most likely take the form of optional power level available to Hecata or something like that - in the same way Ministry have eyes of the serpent as a Presense power now. Personally i can see the connection - the Abyss and Oblivion were essentially the same thing - now we have two clans that can manipulate the power in that to different ends. You won't be surprised to hear this all caused uproar, but until i see it i'll reserve judgement, and if i don't like it, i won't use it

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  • zydake
    replied
    Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
    Might we see a resurgence of the Lamia?
    I would like that, to be quite honest. Regarding "Oblivion", I obviously have missed the memo. Is that the new name for Necromancy? Exactly why it is Oblivion is beyond me tho, since that rings only of the destructive, nihilistic aspect of Death.

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  • chipotlechris
    replied
    I hadn't thought about Hecate having three faces, but that most likely has some impact, as well as her being amongst other thing a Death goddess. There were some some clues as to all this in BJD, but it's been a while so i can't fully remember which groups signed up. If they were going to do it as 3 'clans' in one, each with their own spread, my guess would be:

    Possible Faces
    Cappadocian: Auspex, Fortitude, Oblivion
    Giovanni: Dominate, Potence, Oblivion
    Samedi: Fortitude, Obfuscate, Oblivion

    However, i don't believe that is the way they will go - especially after the streamlining we've seen and the ignoring of the Bloodlines so far. i think it will look like the Classic Cappadocians: Auspex, Fortitude, Oblivion. i expect the Bane to be closer to Cappadocians as well (With Bane severity representing how decomposed you are). This serves a number of purposes, first i provides a nice, sort of in continuity reason for the Lazarenes and Samedi to look so much worse (i know not all Samedi are ancient, but they have an older starting point), it also gets rid of the Giovanni curse which i think would be really difficult, potentially unusable under the new system - imagine adding damage equivalent to you Bane level for each time you feed/hunger point you quench!

    i'm not sure what i want, i like the warring factions of the clan of Death, and i don't think i'm alone in considering them a personal favorite, and even more so when it comes to metaplot and mysteries. However, this will give them a burst of Life and make them more playable. Regardless of what it looks like officially, i'm sure it will be good and logical, and i can still do what i want anyway, they old books are still there and it's not difficult to port things to V5 anyway.

    One final thought, a quick Hecate google brings up many references to 'The Crone'. can't be a coincidence. Might we see a resurgence of the Lamia?

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  • zydake
    replied
    I first wanted to make my own thread, then remembered this one is still fresh. Here we go.

    When we hear "Clan of Death"; what Clan do you think of? Giovanni? Cappadocian? Yes, Cappadocians were retroactively added to the game, which explains why the Book of Nod has Giovanni as Clan of Death. But see, I like that it's a complicated past. However, in light of the streamlining going on in V5, something fresh is needed.

    Clan Hecata. Hecate, the goddess, has three faces. This is a good indicator that it is compromised of several related offshots that all share one thing in common: their obsession with Death and mastery of Necromancy. What do you think, will the faces of the Clan (not necessarily three) be? And will they get their own Disciplines (legacy) or will something be done to unify them?

    Possible Faces
    Cappadocian: Auspex, Fortitude, Necromancy
    Giovanni: Dominate, Potence, Necromancy
    Nagaraja: Auspex, Dominate, Necromancy
    Samedi: Fortitude, Obfuscate, Necromancy

    Will we see all of them, unified under Clan Hecata, or will we get a new meta-Clan that basically only has Necromancy as confirmed discipline?

    I'm very thrilled to finally be able to have a contemporary, modern take on the Cappadocian back. I played my character in an ongoing online game for several years; this is good news for me. But fear not, I'm not a Giovanni-hating nasty person. I also played a Giovanni in our ongoing Vampire Live chronicle, up until pressure got too high, and I was forced to retire the character (thanks, Vienna's Wiener Blut, for ruining my character lol).

    As for Necromancy: most likely we will see a similar take and unification to Blood Sorcery, and I agree with that. Paths aren't exactly necessary. Amalgam-Powers are very likely to preserve some unique differences between the faces.

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  • zydake
    replied
    Something to keep you guessing, but I read somewhere that Cappadocius actively planned to replace his defunct Clan on purpose. Basically understanding that after the Feast of Folly, his Clan was a failure and needed more ambitious people. Hence the Giovan(n)i were introduced.

    My take: C/A is a prick, I hate that guy. The recent escapees of the FoF are what interests me the most. Disenfranchised Cappadocians, discarded by their antediluvian, embrace modern people, so you get modern era Cappadocians without Lazarene torment and disfigurements (and power level). It’s a graceful way to reintroduce them to modern play. Goth chicks, dudes and enbies alike.

    EDIT: Holy crap, I missed the fact that Lord Camden is still around to tell his story, which means he's a contemporary-if-ancient Cappadocian. This is big news for me. I just wonder how he looks /// EDIT: ahh, so he still looks Cappadocian, nice.
    Last edited by zydake; 11-15-2018, 08:01 AM.

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  • Camilla
    replied
    As a fan of both the Ravnos and the Giovanni, this makes me hate V5 even more than I already did before.

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  • HardestadtTheEvenYounger
    replied
    Couldn't help but notice that in the example given of a Church of Caine ceremony, there wasn't any mention of the Ravnos Antediluvian or Saulot and their childer.

    Admittedly, they also forgot to include the Tzimisce and I doubt they're going anywhere.

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