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  • Redwulfe
    replied
    That the World of Darkness portrays all evil as a work of something supernatural in their fictional universe and that by doing so all off WW is doomed to a never ending cycle of real world outrage and criticism. My opinion is that by continuing to bow to this outrage that the WOD will suffer becoming too lighthearted for me and we may never see W5 or M5 presented in the fashion that is true to what I feel is its founding. I don't want WW to stop with what they have started. I think they should print their books they way they want to print them, accept that there will be people who don't like it, and allow me to decided what is in my game or not.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by pang4 View Post
    V5 should have been treated the same way D&D does new editions: assume previous editions never existed. Create the universe anew from scratch, instead of bending over backwards to make the new version fit in with the timeline. It also awards you a clean slate to fix some mistakes.
    *looks at Forgotten Realms*

    Say what?


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  • pang4
    replied
    V5 should have been treated the same way D&D does new editions: assume previous editions never existed. Create the universe anew from scratch, instead of bending over backwards to make the new version fit in with the timeline. It also awards you a clean slate to fix some mistakes.

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  • Shawarbaaz
    replied
    Oh boy where do I start?

    1. Bloodlines suck
    2. The Sabbat should have never been a playable faction and they make better antagonists than else
    3. Despite being advertised on the cover, the modern iteration of Vampire The Masquerade is not a personal horror game anymore (closer to action-horror actually)
    4. Vampire The Requiem is closer to how VTM was first imagined than VTM
    5. V20 and V5's art quality is shit
    6. Lasombra are just "the dark Ventrue" as if another layer of darkness was needed
    7. V5 is a mistake

    Don't take me wrong, despite all its flaws I still love Vampire with all my heart, though I've jumped ship to VTR since the VTM boat is sinking badly

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    Trying to give vampires different origins is a terrible idea.

    Vampires are the children of Caine, period.

    You can have different kinds of monsters but there's got to be a truth and you might as well have it be this one.

    Just like Gorgons come from Greece.

    Camazotz come from Mexico.

    Vampires come from a homicidal Semetic farmer.
    There doesn't have to be Truth since it doesn't really matter. If crazy vampires are attacking your city and killing your friends in the name of Caine/set/Khorne... it doesn't really matter what they do is what matters.

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  • Niico
    replied
    Ok my take :

    1/ i love the plot advancement in v5 and it will be adapted in my actual paris by night chronicle.

    2/ Gangrel clan has a very good idea ( vampires who understand their beast ) and a very poor development ( rednecks who mates with their dog ) . You can do a very intellectual clan of biologist / psychologist / philosopher who try to understand the real nature of their beast .

    3/ the more the ST is severe with the loss of humanity / path the more the game is interesting.

    4/world of darkness 2nd edition is one of the best supplements , i’d Love to have a newer version for the V5

    4/ Indian ravnos are cool and they’re not so dead.

    5/ I don’t understand the hype around the kyasid.

    6/ sabbat is a npc faction . Too much “bleeuuuaarrghh we are evil but we are cool! You are an rebellious teenager ? Come get buy my book !!! *vomits blood*”

    7/ 20th was a solid rule rewriting but do nothing for the mood. Lore of the clans was the supplements that we wait during 20 years

    8/ the BJD is in my top five supplement

    9/ i’m A non believer but Caine is the first vampire who was cursed by god.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    I've said either the Sabbat were copied from Werewolf: The Apocalypse or Werewolf: The Apocalypse copied the Sabbat.

    Hyper-religious apocalypse nut supers out to destroy the hyper-capitalist hidden masters of society.

    Of course, I also state that the real evil of being a vampire isn't the Beast.

    The Beast makes you violent, it doesn't make you evil.

    The evils of vampire come entirely from their human sides having no accountability and superpowers.

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  • 11twiggins
    replied
    The True Black Hand are actually a well written sect.

    The Sabbat are cool as a sect BECAUSE of their hypocrisy and contradictions. It's a church of contortions and paradoxes.

    Ravnos are only good as wild cards who reject vampiric rules and society.

    The hungry dead are actually a great plot element.

    Thaumaturgy isn't overpowered. Blood Mage PC's are often pitched as "a prodigy of magic" and that's where the problem starts.

    Nagaraja are really awesome and their weakness is more manageable than you'd think, it's just that very few could ever exist in one area outside of special circumstances.

    Clan Tzimisce is the best. Most Tzimisce are just terrible at being Tzimisce. A "no true Tzimisce" argument if you will; not actually a fallacy! The idea is that the clan is incredible at its best, and most Tzimisce miss the point.

    Kiasyd cocktails are cool. Too many mechanics in vampire are antisocial or negative. Having the skill to just make cool drinks for vampires is awesome.

    Werewolves are bigoted genocidal fundamentalist murderous ecoterrorists at their worst, and no ST should shy away from that.

    Vampirism is inherently predatory, but vampires are still humans with a condition, not something else entirely. At least at first.

    It's not immoral to take blood against someone's will, as long as you don't do excessive harm. Necessity is a legal and moral defense.

    If you don't do social rolls, and let people win social stuff entirely through RP with shit social stats, you have turned all of a player's dots in charisma, manipulation and appearance, among others, into a luxurious decoration of their character sheet. Your social PC's are entitled to ask to "describe" their way into soaking damage in that scenario.

    Appearance is actually important if you follow the rules and read the crunch's descriptions of different dots and their effects.

    Humanity, virtues and feeding are only inadequate systems if you don't read the rules properly.

    Sometimes Elders produce organic lack of power in the PC's which may feel like railroading. This is a feature, not a bug. If your PC's don't realize that they still have some subtle but important choices with an elder controlling them, they're being obvious and not thinking about things properly.

    If elders are unrealistically vindictive and constantly seek to punish the PC's, especially those of female players, the ST may have some problems they need to work on.

    Vicissitude is far from overpowered. Vicissitude is only powerful if you attribute abilities to 1-5 which lie outside of the rules entirely. It's blood intensive and outside of some combative options which are quick and messy, it takes hours of careful (or careless) work.

    Children of Osiris are a great group, but only insofar as they're a complete dead end of dogma and crutches. They literally have a power to artificially keep their humanity high, and frenzy if they go too long outside their temples. If a PC seeks Golconda or similar, the big test is realising that these guys are full of shit.
    Last edited by 11twiggins; 11-12-2018, 07:39 AM.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    My Unpopular Opinions on the Chicago Chronicles

    1. Modius is one of the greatest characters ever made.

    2. Juggler should be the head of the Anarchs in Chicago forever.

    3. Killing both was a mistake.

    4. Alicia, Evelyn, Michael, and the rest of the Gary crew are better than 90% of everything created afterward.

    5. Any Chicago supplement needs Gary.

    6. Lodin's feeding restriction of "beautiful women" is something only a Ventrue player, not an NPC, should ever take. Then the storyteller should tell him to fix it.

    7. Al Capone is actually pretty awesome.

    8. Critias should be in every Brujah supplement as the defacto head of the Clan.

    9. The city having ridiculously overpowered elders is part of the point.

    10. Menele and Helena should almost never be seen and if they are, everything has gone to hell.

    11. Killing almost every character killed in Under a Blood Red Moon was a mistake.

    12. 1st Edition is better than 2nd Edition in all respects.

    13. Ballard is a child molester but they really don't go out and say it

    14. The Malkavians in Chicago until Bronwyn, Corbin, and Brian were uniformly terrible.

    15. Annabelle makes a better Signature Toreador than Victoria Ash does.

    16. Maldavis should be as important to the Anarch movement as Jeremy MacNeil but the Chicago revolts are never mentioned.

    17. Horatio Ballard should be the richest Ventrue in America, if not the world.

    18. Khalid is actually more monstrous than Ballard.

    19. They should have let some of the vampires in the book hit wassail.

    20. Gulfora is more useful than many other characters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kalendeer
    replied
    Originally posted by Ideon View Post
    I think the one truth they latched onto (especially since it is taken literally, without any room for allegory, parable, mistranslation or poor transcription, in a setting with all the werewolf, mage, changeling and wraith stuff) is even more terrible than leaving it open-ended or unknown, but that's just me.
    Well Demons : The Fallen doesn't have his forum so here.

    1 - The One Truth from Demons and VtM is not a problem. Those who want pagan gods can play Scions. And if I am playing Scions, then I am expecting that the One Truth is that polytheism is a thing.

    2 - The Werewolves are wrong. Unless they are your main splat, then everyone else is wrong. Hint: Werewolves is not and never will be my main splat and that probably the last thing I am going to buy.

    3 - Demons should get a V20 edition despite the fact the courts suck.

    4 - There are only two salubri groups, the healers and the warriors.

    5 - Saulot is a nice guy. His personnal curse from Caïn is that everything he does will end in tragedy anyway.

    6 - The Cab Driver is not Caïn, he's just some random Malkavian methuselah having fun.

    7 - Lacroix was actually an epic guy who did pretty swag stuffs before coming to LA, getting let down by the local Camarilla, and trying to keep a throne that was impossible to keep. Also the whole "kuei jin" alliance was a lie from Ming Xiao to create dissent.

    8 - The Kuei Jin don't exist at all. There are vampires in Asia though some clans are different and do not necessarily believe in Caïn (even if it is the One Truth).

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Ideon View Post
    I think the one truth they latched onto (especially since it is taken literally, without any room for allegory, parable, mistranslation or poor transcription, in a setting with all the werewolf, mage, changeling and wraith stuff) is even more terrible than leaving it open-ended or unknown, but that's just me.
    Don't all the game lines have mutually contradictory ones?

    I mean, Gaia vs. Caine.

    Where does Werewolf's cosmology fit into vampire? And vice versa?

    Personally, you pick a cosmology and should stick to it, IMHO.

    I don't expect Jesus in Percy Jackson.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ideon
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    Trying to give vampires different origins is a terrible idea.

    Vampires are the children of Caine, period.

    You can have different kinds of monsters but there's got to be a truth and you might as well have it be this one.

    Just like Gorgons come from Greece.

    Camazotz come from Mexico.

    Vampires come from a homicidal Semetic farmer.
    I think the one truth they latched onto (especially since it is taken literally, without any room for allegory, parable, mistranslation or poor transcription, in a setting with all the werewolf, mage, changeling and wraith stuff) is even more terrible than leaving it open-ended or unknown, but that's just me.

    Leave a comment:


  • pang4
    replied
    Originally posted by Hermeticus View Post
    Yes, I know what thaumaturgy means, that is why I don't think it fits Tremere magic. They don't perform miracles, not even by their concept and characterization. Miracles are normally associated with religion and Tremere magic is not depicted as religious. That's why I don't like that name. As for the other names, I'm ok with them. I only said "change them to what you prefer" rhetorically. I didn't say they need to be changed.
    My mistake, misunderstood your post then ^^

    Leave a comment:


  • Hermeticus
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    Vampires come from a homicidal Semetic farmer.
    I don't think we can identify Cain as Semitic... Shem son of Noah was born way after Cain. The myth or story (depending on one's beliefs) is obviously Semitic, no dispute there, but Cain... meh.

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  • Hermeticus
    replied
    Originally posted by pang4 View Post

    Thaumaturgy literally means "The power to perform miracles." It fits the theme of Tremere really well.
    Akhu refers to the immortal part of the soul, the very essence that Lector-Priests draw their power from.
    Sadhana is the process through which the sorcerer through ritual and spell binds the power of Gods.
    Dur'An'Ki means "The Binding of Heaven and Earth", in reference to the power of the Gods.

    Point being that all of these are well-researched and chosen with care.
    Thaumaturgy even rolls off the tounge, at least more than a name like "Tzimisce", which no one to date can agree on how to pronounce....
    Yes, I know what thaumaturgy means, that is why I don't think it fits Tremere magic. They don't perform miracles, not even by their concept and characterization. Miracles are normally associated with religion and Tremere magic is not depicted as religious. That's why I don't like that name. As for the other names, I'm ok with them. I only said "change them to what you prefer" rhetorically. I didn't say they need to be changed.

    As for the names being well-researched, I never questioned that. In fact, in a later point, I praise the developers for their efforts with creating a world that takes into accounts so many different things, cultures and people, and for improving on this throughout the years. It's a terribly difficult task, and I think that by the later editions the results reached are impressive, even if one can always move further. I myself have learnt an incredible amount of things since I was a teenager by simply finding an idea in the books of the game and then starting my own research on it to understand what was the real inspiration behind it. I can without a doubt say that this process has had a huge impact on my personal education, introducing me to things I would have hardly paid attention to otherwise.

    EDIT: in fact, to make it clearer, I prefer to call Thaumaturgy "Blood Sorcery" only when we are talking about blood sorcery in general, as comprising Akhu, Sadhana, Anarch Thaumaturgy, etc. As for the Tremere's specific form of blood sorcery, I don't like the name Thaumaturgy for them either, because, as I said, Tremere magic is not religious in concept, and I would gladly find an alternative name for it in my games, distinct from the vague "blood sorcery".

    I totally approve of the name Thaumaturgy for the form of ritual blood magic practised by the Lancea Sanctum in Requiem by the way, because they do believe they are performing miracles. You'd miss out on the origin story of how it was discovered by Longinus in Thebes but that can be fixed. Theban Thaumaturgy is a nice option.
    Last edited by Hermeticus; 11-11-2018, 11:29 AM.

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