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  • CTPhipps
    Trying to give vampires different origins is a terrible idea.

    Vampires are the children of Caine, period.

    You can have different kinds of monsters but there's got to be a truth and you might as well have it be this one.

    Just like Gorgons come from Greece.

    Camazotz come from Mexico.

    Vampires come from a homicidal Semetic farmer.

    Leave a comment:

  • pang4
    Originally posted by Hermeticus View Post
    OOh this is a very funny idea for a thread. Nice. Here we go:

    3) Thaumaturgy is a horrible name. Blood Sorcery it is. Get a new name for the version practised by Tremere and stick to the ok names Akhu, Dur-An-Ki, Sadhana, etc... or change them to what you prefer
    Thaumaturgy literally means "The power to perform miracles." It fits the theme of Tremere really well.
    Akhu refers to the immortal part of the soul, the very essence that Lector-Priests draw their power from.
    Sadhana is the process through which the sorcerer through ritual and spell binds the power of Gods.
    Dur'An'Ki means "The Binding of Heaven and Earth", in reference to the power of the Gods.

    Point being that all of these are well-researched and chosen with care.
    Thaumaturgy even rolls off the tounge, at least more than a name like "Tzimisce", which no one to date can agree on how to pronounce....

    Leave a comment:

  • Blind Dragon
    Not a huge Vampire fan, but will give this a go.

    1) Vampire is at its best when it's intimately connected to the real world and to mortals. The moment it gets lost in its own metaplot and convoluted secret history, it becomes ridiculous.

    2) The Sabbat, as described, make no sense.

    3) The biblical origin of vampirism as the absolute truth is really awful. African and South Asian vampires having different origin myths mitigate this somewhat, but the game itself implies they are wrong, so.

    4) The Antediluvians as world-destroying monsters akin to gods is a silly take, and undermines the whole gothic horror thing for cosmic horror that doesn't fit the mood and themes. Gehenna should be about the destruction of vampires, not the world.


    5) Vampire magic should not be as powerful as True Magick, except in specific circumstances.

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  • Hermeticus
    OOh this is a very funny idea for a thread. Nice. Here we go:

    1) blood sorcery paths and rituals should be acquired automatically by PCs by spending XP if they belong to a clan or organization that practices blood sorcery, and within the limits of the paths and rituals known within their group. They shouldn't be awarded (while still requiring XP) as a recompense for finishing a quest for some elder. This is unless the coterie is composed only of blood sorcerers, in which case it is interesting to go deeper into blood sorcery acquisition in their stories. As for a coterie with only one or two blood sorcerer, their players can't feel forced to drag the coterie with them and derail the plotline in order to do the normal developing for their characters i.e.: pick up more paths and rituals. It's stressful and damages character concepts.
    2) rituals should have an XP cost between level of the ritual x 1, 2 or 3
    3) Thaumaturgy is a horrible name. Blood Sorcery it is. Get a new name for the version practised by Tremere and stick to the ok names Akhu, Dur-An-Ki, Sadhana, etc... or change them to what you prefer
    4) Historically, Assamites should have access to 95% of the paths and rituals in the game, including borrowings and adaptations from other forms of blood sorcery. Their area of influence lies pretty much at the centre between China, India, Europe and Sub-saharan Africa, and the empires that have been in that area over the centuries (starting from the Persian empire before even Alexander the Great) have been big on translating and adapting stuff from all the world and trading it to another part of the world, including occult knowledge, philosophy and pre-modern science. It only makes sense that Assamite sorcerers would pick up all sorts of magical practices from all these opportunities and their magic shouldn't be any more Mesopotamian themed than it is Hermetic, Persian (Zoroastrian), Islamic, Jewish, Eastern Christian or Hindu themed. They had access to it all and there's no good reason to think they didn't pick it up to add to their stuff from the Second City. That's if one wants to be historical about it. Obviously, for game balance purposes, one would do better to change things around.
    5) Clan (and racial) stereotypes got better with the later editions. However, trying to represent the whole world in a politically correct way is a nigh-impossible task, more so for a game and its developers. I appreciate the effort from the game developers over the years, thank them for it and say to keep going. The more we learn about the rest of the world, the easier it will be to improve the characterization for a game that has the potential to sell to everyone, everywhere. I say this as a triple minority, from the standpoint of the game's origins: I'm Italian (so I keep my eyes out on Giovanni characterization), ex-Catholic without any grudge, rather sympathy (Lasombra, I'm looking at you) and Muslim (assalamu alaykum Assamites).
    6) I'd rather play without any morality path. Too complicated. At most, I'd adapt the Humanity system of Requiem 2E.
    7) Requiem 2E has the most interesting game and especially advancement system. Pity, it has still little published (as far as I'm aware). Requiem 1E's system and the many options in its supplements are very nice, but something's a bit vanilla about it. Masquerade's system has several holes, but I can play Revised and V20 anytime and have fun.
    8) the idea of clans (both in masquerade and requiem) is problematic for tons of reasons. A clanless game where only factions and groups count, with each teaching also some particular power and with its own history, is totally an option. As for the main 10 discipline powers (Auspex, Celerity, Potence, Fortitude, Obfuscate, Animalism, Dominate, Presence, Protean - which is a classic vampire power, so I'd keep it general), vampires should have all access to it.
    9) Dementation is poorly written, but an interesting concept. A Malkavian with Dominate is way scarier or more interesting or more whatever-you-want-it-to-be. An adaptation of Requiem's Nightmare discipline is also an option. If a better version of Dementation emerged, what I said about Dominate and Nightmare wouldn't count anymore.
    10) the saddest thing about the Malkavian is that they got a terribly debilitating weakness theoretically in exchange for insight and prophecy, but practically in exchange for nothing because their oracular abilities in game are negligible unless the ST does somehting to fix it. Auspex+Obfuscate+Dominate is nice though.
    11) what I said for blood sorcery includes necromancy
    12) I'm not sure whether necromancy and "thaumaturgy" should be merged from a game rules point of view. For now, I keep them separate.
    13) necromancy is better than mortis
    14) the fact that the clans/bloodlines that practice necromancy are all hating each other and hoarding their necromancy paths, when the discipline itself has barely 10 paths, is a nuisance for character concepts. True, this pushes me to be more creative to come up with interesting and plausible stories to justify characters with an unusual access to different paths when I want to make a "Master of Necromancy" character concept. But still, it's a nuisance. Need to work this out somehow.
    15) Cappadocians have a better discipline spread than the Giovanni to use necromancy (Auspex+Fortitude is way more useful to a pure necromancer) and a more interesting but playable weakness, but I love the Giovanni, and not because I'm Italian. They're just fun to me. That said, Dominate and Potence make sense for a clan with their kind of on the side activities (mafia and finance and the like) and the skull face wouldn't do for them. While I see the original Cappadocians - minus the Dark Ages Harbingers, who were cool - as failures. Millennia studying the dead and you never think of learning necromancy to ask the ghosts what's it like on the other side, while people all over the world have been doing it since the Second City? And when you finally decide to learn in the Middle Ages you go to the Giovanni? Sad. Cappadocian's post-embrace idiocy is fun, though. But more sad.
    16) Superheroes with fangs are totally cool by me
    17) Powerplay is totally cool by me
    18) supervillains with fangs played by powerplayers is totally cool by me, as long as they stick to the written rules and my houserules and are realistic about the consequences of their actions.
    19) Occult is over-powered ability.
    20) all the other knowledge abilities are nerfed compared to their real-world efficacy. 4 dots in Science or Technology and in Resources are enough to legitimately say your character can invent things way more powerful than many disciplines, or use the ones in the real world. And some are not that hard to access in real life, if you know where to get the primary ingredients.
    21) in the digital age, the ritual Divine Sign is over-powered.
    22) if the Giovanni research a way to know people's birthdates on sight - which is not far-fetched, maybe picking up some thaumaturgy - something funny can happen.

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  • Darkfoxdev
    The sabbat is boring. Everything about them beyond their inception is better done in a narrative with either the anarchs, the followers of set or the baali. The only good things in there were the lasombra and tzimisce and the sect is unnecessary for that.

    The politics in dark ages were way better than the modern version and I'd prefer to see a modern version of that... actually this is the third game I'd like to see a modern take on the dark ages version (the others being fae and mage) though of the three I like modern vampire best.

    Leave a comment:

  • PMárk
    Hmm, let's see if I have ten...

    1. Gothic-punk is the soul and spirit of the game and still relevant in 2018, if only people could get the idea that it isn't about everyone looking as decked out for a goth-club night and it isn't about always playing certain bands during sessions and if they ACTUALLY READ THE F*CKING BOOKS, where they explain it, they'd realize how well it summarizes the core of the game. .

    2. Crossovers are good and the critters are okay not being mechanically similar, in a way they are in NWoD/CofD (though the powers should be worked out to, well, work with less problems across the games). It's okay werecreatures in general having the biggest dicks in a fight and okay mages being hilariously OP, given time and resources (which they shouldn't have, most of the time, during a play session, IMO).

    3. The books going full-color was a mistake, going photography-based was a greater mistake. V20 books look mostly okay, but aren't as atmospheric and consistent as the Revised books were and V5 just looks bad and nothing like a VtM book. The books should have the green marble and the core the rose, full stop.

    4. The game wasn't halfway as "problematic" as people making it out and most of it got remedied. Connected to that, the non-core-7 clans are mostly okay and fun.

    5. Sometimes, stereotypes are not bad.

    6. The old WoD rules, while could use a patch-up and some ...streamlining... (I forced that word out through gritting teeth), were more or less okay and they are not hard to learn.

    7. Actually, WoD combat is quite good at what it does, namely, being deadly and surprisingly "realistic" and I mean it. That's one of the issues most people have with it, IMO, that they expect combat to be more like in games, where you can take multiple hits and being okay and things are roughly balanced. WoD combat is not like that and it's good for it.

    8. Torreadors could be quite okay and very cool. They could also bee the most annoying shallow pricks, but everyone knows that.

    9. The game shouldn't cater blatantly to contemporary political sides, but should present political and philosophical arguments, from multiple viewpoints. I firmly think it mostly succeded in that in the past, but today, everyone's being too campy and histerical, the fans and writers both (though not everyone, of course). It's not just WoD, it's most of the entertainment industry and it's bad and most normal people are totally fed up with it.

    10. The game was labeled as "personal horror" and personal horror is good, but only in moderate doses. Most people played the game not as pure horror, but as dark urban fantasy with varying ammounts of (personal) horror and it is okay to do that and the game is a lot more fun that way, while pushing the pure sacred personal horror (and what people tend to mean by that) is tend to become boring and pretentious very fast.


    +1. Gonzo and edgy aren't bad things.

    +2. Centering the games around big conflicts was a good idea and metalot is a good thing. It could go wrong (see Avatar storm and V5, recently), but the first gives direction and things to lean on and the second gives story and fuels long-time investment.
    Last edited by PMárk; 11-10-2018, 09:51 PM.

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  • Possessed
    1. I love the Kuei-Jin, and have simple solution for most complains about them without actually changing them. Link to my solution

    2. I love the Baali, especially with the history and factions presented in their Clanbook which I happen to think is one of the best CB’s out there.

    3. V5 never needed to happen. I would have preferred more x20th material for all lines.

    4. I love crossovers and dont see the fuss about them, personally I’ve never had problems with it.

    5. There is only one World of Darkness and all the supernaturals exist in it. None of them are absolutely correct about how it all began or how the world truly works all they have are different theories and stories, like religions in the real world. Even science cannot be relied on in WoD as supernatural powers, and especially Awakened and Fae Magic(k), tend to break the rules of science.

    6. Black Spiral Dancers and Fomori are awesome, and tragic, and should have more support for players. I liked Freak Legion: Player’s Guide to Fomori and am rather sad that the Fomori did not get similar treatment in W20 line, their powers and weaknesses are pretty much ST fiat in W20 line instead of giving them similar treatment as for example Kinfolk got.

    Oh... I’m on the Vampire Forum... forget number 6 then.

    7. I quite liked the V20 Tal’Mahe’Ra book, but then again I also liked the previous one even if I have used them extremely sparingly.

    8. I like many of the Bloodlines like Lhiannan, Gargoyles, Samedi, Nagaraja and Kiasyd to name just a few that first pop into mind.

    I do believe I have many other unpopular opinions but here are the ones that just pop into mind without needing to think that hard on whether they belong to this thread or not.

    Leave a comment:

  • Asimar
    I love the Kuei-Jin, but the fact that they named the book "Kindred of the East" have caused so much problems.

    Also, the setting is perfect as is, especially the end of 2nd/Rev era.

    V20 was supposed to the metaplot-neutral and the moment it wanted to "update" the setting and "modernize" the metaplot, it ceased to be good (even if I like some of the things in the Guide to the Tal'Mahe'Ra)

    The first scenario in Gehenna is the most perfect ending for Vampire : the Masquerade.

    Leave a comment:

  • Spencer from The Hills
    Giovanni are one of my favourite clans; I'm just not convinced that it's worth writing them as vampires.

    Originally posted by roleplayrose View Post
    Wraith could have been amazing.
    I'm surprised at the suggestion that more people thought it wasn't. For me, it makes some films about ghosts disappointing by comparison. I'm not expecting Casper the Friendly Ghost to have the same tone, but I wouldn't rule it out.

    Leave a comment:

  • pang4
    Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
    Dominate shouldn’t be generation dependent.
    Word to this.

    To placate the traditionalists, I have house ruled that each generation below you the defender has adds +1 difficulty to the roll.

    Leave a comment:

  • Darkfoxdev
    I'd say I should be able to play a camarilla necromancer or lasombra but reveals for chicago by night regarding obtenebration may make this a possibility so I suppose it won't count.

    Instead I'll say that all WoD games should be totally exclusive from each other and only maintain discount versions of the other splats, adjusted to fit the rules and mythology of each gameline.

    Leave a comment:

  • Legendre
    OK, I'll play.

    Vampire is to emotional instability as D&D circa 1986 was to social maladjustment.

    Every. Bloodline. Sucks.

    The entire notion of "antitribu" is silly.

    Gehenna was always a dumb idea both IC and OOC.

    Dice pool/success mechanics are silly and are the fatal flaw at the heart of VtM.

    Leave a comment:

  • CTPhipps
    I am going to say Baali will never be anything remotely as cool as Setites.

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  • Sergeant Brother
    Alright, this is an interesting idea for a thread. Here goes nothing...

    The Lasombra and Tzimisce should be in the Camarilla as full fledged Clans. I'm generally for the Camarilla being more inclusive - except for the Assamites ironically. They should have no place in the Camarilla and including them was silly.

    The Giovanni ripped off the Tremere idea. They also shouldn't be a full fledged Clan. Bring back the Cappadocians and make the Giovanni a Bloodline. Oh yeah, and put the Cappadocians in the Camarilla too.

    I don't like crossovers, in fact when playing Vampire, the setting of W:tA and M:tA shouldn't exist at all. No Wyrm, no Technocracy, no Pentex, no consensual reality, none of that stuff in my V:tM game. In their own game lines, that stuff is fine. Actually, on the topic, I enjoyed teh section about Gangrel interacting with Lupines back in the 1st edition Gangrel Clanbook written before W:tA was.

    I would like to take the Sabbat back more to its roots, as religious extremist semi-anarchist vampires. I would have them control fewer if any cities, they live more in terror cells, which spring up and cause trouble for the Camarilla and them blend back into the shadows. They may be mostly Panders or other strange Bloodlines from generations of mixing blood for embraces, maybe they should even reject the idea of Clans themselves.

    The Anarch vs Elder battle should take prominence over the Camarilla vs Sabbat battle. That should be more of the focus, at least politically, of the game. Well, that or elder vs elder.

    I can't stand Paths but I understand why they exist, mostly because Humanity makes certain kinds of games or characters too difficult. I think that I may just scrap Humanity entirely and let players role play the morality of their characters or allow them to decide what their Humanity is with certain benefits and drawbacks for both high and low Humanity.

    I would make the Baali a full fledged Clan and make the Settites a Bloodline of them. On that topic, the Ravnos should also be a Bloodline of the Gangrel and the Assamites... I'm not sure. Maybe some kind of minor Sect.

    There is probably more but I'll stop here for now.

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  • TyrannicalRabbit
    Malkavians are somewhat sneakily the worst written clan out of them all.

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