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V5 Camarilla, Chechnya

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  • #31
    I don´t expect nothing from V5 and still manages to let me down

    Originally posted by Leandro16 View Post
    Meanwhile V5 tries to eliminate the shades of grey morality acting like a self-embarrased teenager who doesnt acknowledge himself for what it is triying to evade his own theme and reducing all the political conflict of grey into an infantilized manicheism where the greater evil is eliminated (No sabbat) , Anarch are good guys and the camarilla are Nazis and the plot becomes more simple as years of writting are throw into the nothingness along the War of Ages by eliminating the elders.

    And It is sad becuase V5 had both the potential to be the greatest edition and also some good new ideas behind but failed horrible at the execution.


    Hunger pool

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    • #32
      I haven't read the Camarilla book yet, and at this point, I don't even honestly care. I'm all out shits to give.

      Be honest with me, if the handful of people posting about this hadn't, how many people here throwing in their 2 cents to help blow this "issue" up would genuinely be stewing at home over this?

      Comment


      • #33
        White Wolf's FB:

        White Wolf Community - We realize the way we have portrayed various topics in the recent Camarilla and Anarch setting books can be viewed as crude and insensitive. We appreciate this feedback and we are actively examining our choices in these books. Earlier this year, we made a pledge to you to meet certain standards and be more direct with the community regarding the World of Darkness and our games. That's a pledge we failed to uphold, and we are deeply sorry.

        White Wolf is currently undergoing some significant transitions, up to and including a change in leadership. The team needs a short time to understand what this means, so we ask for your patience as we figure out our next steps.

        We thank you for your support, and for calling us out when it's needed. Your thoughts and opinions are essential to the improvement of White Wolf.
        Last edited by CTPhipps; 11-10-2018, 04:28 AM.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #34
          At this rate I'm beginning to wonder if the writing team has hoof in mouth disease. I'd say I can't believe they are this obtuse but well......they've shown before they are. And of course most of the FB comments are your usual strawman to make light of people's concerns buggery.
          Last edited by TyrannicalRabbit; 11-09-2018, 06:51 PM.


          “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

          Comment


          • #35
            V5.

            Sigh.

            I'm trying very hard to act shocked and outraged at this sudden and unexpected turn of events, but, really, it's the same as it ever was.

            It's like a group of seven-year-olds heard some naughty words and decided to write them on a public restroom's wall to show how grown-up juveniles can be.

            And, damn it all, V5 actually has a decent underlying mechanic and setting in there somewhere, if they can just stop it with the unforced errors.

            Now the publishers need more time to think about what they think about the chapter they, themselves, published? Shouldn't that have already been discussed at one of those editorial meeting thingies real companies have before they approve content? This can't possibly be the first time the editors have read the whole book, right?

            Somebody, please, reassure me they read the books before publishing them.

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            • #36
              (I know that I might get kicked off for a few days for posting this, but it is worth it)

              OH MY GOD! This whole thread is one more proof that it is correct to loath the SJWs, wingchair humanists the whole lot! And it is proof for all their blubbering about equal rights and freedom of speech, the only point of view they can accept is their own - no other!
              What happans in Chechenia is a tragedy and as a European I know quite a lot about how fucked up the situation is there. But what happens here: a fraking shitstorm in a water glas about a FICTIOUS book! I do not like V5 for several reasons (and will import the good parts of V5 into V20), but all of this are fictious books, not reality!!!!
              Nobody at WW is making light of the plight of the people in the Caucasus, these are invented, fictious books, nothing more. VtM IS NOT REAL, IT IS FICTION! If you are unable to decide what is real and what is fiction, you have a problem, quite a different one from the poor sods in the Caucasus!

              THOUGHTS ARE FREE and should stay so! What is going on here is a self-inserted morality police running amok thinking about what the authors of a fictious book might have thought when writing it. And since their one-sidedness of thoughts, they decided to take offence, not even thinking about that at the end it is a fictious book about a fictious world! And it flies straight over their heads that in their moral outrage in their warm living rooms, far from any danger, they are mirror images of the bookburners of decades and centuries past.
              They want some text gone, because it does not taste well for them. See the similarities to the bookburners? They too thought themselves in the right, getting rid of texts and stories they did not like. The same happens here with the self-declared "Social Justice Warriors", just under different circumstances.

              A little tidbit out of real life: 9 out of every ten "SJWs" I meet during my life are just wingchair do-gooders, loud-mouths when they are safe somewhere far from "the action".You won´t see them in "A-stan" with Flecktarn and gun or helping otherwise somewhere, drilling wells or law assistance. No most of these self-claimed morality police get up in arms about something, rips stuff out of context and blows it up, feeling good.
              Taking a chapter (FROM a FICTIOUS BOOK about a FICTIOUS WORLD) out of context and dissing the authors, is sooo helping the poor sods in Chechenia! (I hope you get the Cynism)

              I stop here, because I am close to botch my Frenzy check. I am really fed up with hypermoralist PC dung. The world is not a nice place in a lot of places, but you will not help it with attacking fictious books!
              Last edited by Günther; 11-09-2018, 08:36 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                White Wolf's FB:



                Mark Rein Hagen:

                Feedback about the passage is good if somewhat overwrought, it is indeed rather careless with its wording and causes offense. To be clear, so far as I recall, it was written in the arrogant and insufferable voice of an undercover Archon spy who is suspected of being a double agent. Never-the-less, if the author and editor had known the words would be so intensely scrutinised on their own apart from that content it could (and should) be rewritten as thus:

                "The recurring international controversy about the persecution of homosexuals is something the regime embraces rather than shies away from. It is indeed a despicable media manipulation that focuses the West on one particular kind of evil rather than another more covert one. While they indeed persecute homosexuals this is not a crime of which they are afraid of the world knowing, nor is something of which they are ashamed, but rather it IS the point. The reason they are so very brazen is to distract from the truth of what ___ has become..."

                Only a few words changed and the true intent is made clear without totally ruining the unique voice, I hope.

                Haven't seen the book or even the full passage, but perhaps the context of the voice of the agent reporting in was taken out without fully rewriting the text into that of a proper 3rd person narrator. This sort of mistake does happen rather more often than anyone in publishing would care to admit, particularly in books of this size.

                ugh.

                This is still very unsatisfactory. The whole problem is that they're still blaming a real (and ongoing) tragedy on fictional creatures. If they insist on keeping it at all, then at the very least, they need to make it clear who is to blame, not vampires, but humans, real humans. That doesn't mean that there can't be vampires involved, horrible creatures exploiting the tragedy for their own ends, but making the whole thing run by vampires instead of the true culprits is a serious problem.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Günther View Post
                  (I know that I might get kicked off for a few days for posting this, but it is worth it)

                  OH MY GOD! This whole thread is one more proof that it is correct to loath the SJWs, wingchair humanists the whole lot! And it is proof for all their blubbering about equal rights and freedom of speech, the only point of view they can accept is their own - no other!
                  As I explained on Twitter:

                  "There's a difference between editing and censorship. Censorship means banning a book. Editing means removing a shitty chapter that lowers the tone of the book."

                  I'm an author, I know the difference.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                    As I explained on Twitter:

                    "There's a difference between editing and censorship. Censorship means banning a book. Editing means removing a shitty chapter that lowers the tone of the book."

                    I'm an author, I know the difference.
                    I might be "just" a hobby writer myself, but I know the difference between editing and censorship too. And those two are cousins of each other. Censorship is NOT ONLY Banning a book, like you try to paint it. Editing "with specific intent" is just censorship with a different name. Because you decided for yourself that you find that part shitty (it does not matter if it is shitty or not) and want it gone. Others might not find that part shitty. I personally Do NOT Like that part either, but it is not us who should decide if it has to go. The author is the one who has to decide this.

                    If we are really for freedom of speech and writing than we must swallow stuff we do not like without always crying /shouting for the scissors. Simply don´t read it, if you don´t like it. Shouting for editing is most often nothing but the cry for censorship. But that is a distinction I know most SJWs cannot see or do not want to see.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Günther View Post
                      I might be "just" a hobby writer myself, but I know the difference between editing and censorship too. And those two are cousins of each other. Censorship is NOT ONLY Banning a book, like you try to paint it. Editing "with specific intent" is just censorship with a different name. Because you decided for yourself that you find that part shitty (it does not matter if it is shitty or not) and want it gone. Others might not find that part shitty. I personally Do NOT Like that part either, but it is not us who should decide if it has to go. The author is the one who has to decide this.

                      If we are really for freedom of speech and writing than we must swallow stuff we do not like without always crying /shouting for the scissors. Simply don´t read it, if you don´t like it. Shouting for editing is most often nothing but the cry for censorship. But that is a distinction I know most SJWs cannot see or do not want to see.
                      Freedom of speech runs two ways.

                      An artist should have the freedom to do whatever the fuck they want. They also need to man up and understand when people say they wrote crap.

                      * World of Darkness: Gypsies
                      * Himmler and Goering as Sabbat vampires
                      * Chechnya as Doctor Doom's Latveria for Vampires
                      * Ravnos in general

                      It's bad writing and they need to know so they can avoid in the future.

                      Telling an artist "this is great" when it's shit is helping no one. The book is better without the chapter.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • #41
                        This just in; freedom of speech means freedom from consequences. Anyone who disagrees with you or comments on what you say is censoring you and is one of The Bad People. Someone really needs to force them to stop talking, to protect... freedoms.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                          Freedom of speech runs two ways.
                          An artist should have the freedom to do whatever the fuck they want. They also need to man up and understand when people say they wrote crap.

                          * World of Darkness: Gypsies
                          * Himmler and Goering as Sabbat vampires
                          * Chechnya as Doctor Doom's Latveria for Vampires
                          * Ravnos in general

                          It's bad writing and they need to know so they can avoid in the future.

                          Telling an artist "this is great" when it's shit is helping no one. The book is better without the chapter.
                          One moment, I never said to tell somebody he wrote great stuff when he does not, stop trying to put words into my mouth!
                          And do you hear yourself? "So they can avoid it" That is another form of banning!
                          It is simply not our decision to make if a writer wants to improve him/herself or what they write about. We can decide to like it or not and act accordingly by either buying more stuff from them (if availalbe) or to stop reading their stuff when it is not our taste.

                          e.g. Himmler and Göring in the Sabbat I find it crap too, for several reasons, But it does not entitle me or you to try to force the author: cut it out! I never bought that dung "Berlin by Night", because I consider it manure. There might be some people out there who like this amateurish try at writing (besides I do not think that author was ever in Berlin), "good" for them. i simply will never read something of him again. But it is not our choice to make if the author wants to be on the level of the worst penny dreadful or get better.

                          As I said before, most of you SJW (you called yourself one in another thread) do not really get the true distinction of editing and banning, because you morally overload even single words in part.
                          A little paraphrased quote (since I do not know the exact English translation, only the original version) by a philosopher: "The "Good Ones" were always the beginning of the end." F. Nietzsche
                          The "dictatorship of the wellmeaning" is not better than other dictatorships, something the SJWs simply do not want to see.
                          Last edited by Günther; 11-09-2018, 09:19 PM.

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                          • #43
                            TIL having professional writing standards and being people with empathy is a bad thing that threatens "freeze peach." Sigh, I have no hand and I must facepalm.


                            “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Ravian View Post


                              ugh.

                              This is still very unsatisfactory. The whole problem is that they're still blaming a real (and ongoing) tragedy on fictional creatures. If they insist on keeping it at all, then at the very least, they need to make it clear who is to blame, not vampires, but humans, real humans. That doesn't mean that there can't be vampires involved, horrible creatures exploiting the tragedy for their own ends, but making the whole thing run by vampires instead of the true culprits is a serious problem.
                              Fully agreed. If I were tweaking the idea of Malkav's insanity having some relation to the 'madness' of extremism, I would instead have the slumbering Antedeluvian feeding on the intense psychic energies associated with war and extremism. It's not that the region is "insane" or that Malkav is causing Islamic State or whatever, it's that it coincidentally is quickening his return from Torpor.

                              Have Vampires feeding off of these events, thematically speaking, rather than instigating them. Occasionally pulling strings and pushing an agenda of course, but definitely less so with certain kinds of events.

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                              • #45
                                All of this potential censorship is hurting The Troops. Soros is probably funding it. I suggest that everyone who has critiqued V5 Camarilla's use of the Chechan hate crimes against LGBT people be banned from the forum to protect freedom of speech.

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