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  • #31
    Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
    And its the exact opposite feelings for me. I much prefer my settings to have an initial setup and then allow me to tell whatever stories I want without the expectation of specific external events occurring.
    Which you can do, by ignoring the metaplot.

    The thing is that I've been playing since 1993. I have the first, second, and Revised editions. I had them before I got V20.

    Why would I buy a new edition if it's just the same information I had before?

    I buy new editions so they can give me new material.

    New material requires changes to the clans, setting, and characters. If there's no changes, there's no reason to buy.

    YMMV but that's my position.

    V5 inspired me to buy it because I suddenly had a lot of new events to incorporate into my games and shake them up.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

      I admit I didn't buy a single V20 product until Beckett's Jyhad Diary and then bought all of the V20 products. I missed out on a lot but V:TM without metaplot has nothing to offer me. I already have metaplot free sourcebooks.

      Metaplot is the only reason to update your books, IMHO.

      But yes, the big success of Paradox has been taking advantage of the international community of World of Darkness that far eclipses the former American based one.



      A more cynical man than me might have argued that the controversy generated was deliberate as it brought them to national attention multiple times.



      I disagree and almost posted the Luke Skywalker, "Everything you said was wrong" meme but that would be rude.

      This is me being gentle in my riposte but Paradox Interactive has succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of their group and will continue to do so with the revival of Bloodlines, successful visual novels, board games, and their multimedia campaign. They obviously believe in the metaplot heavy V5 and that's paid huge dividends for it. V20 was amazing and helped revive the license when it had faded into obscurity. It was artistically great. However, comparing V5 and V20 is pointless at this point.

      Most of the writers of V20 have helped contribute to V5 and a lot of the plots of V20's BJD are being brought into V5 one after the other.

      I think both of us are on the verge of edition warring again. In the end, we have what we have whether it was better or worse for the line.
      I totally agree with your analysis.


      “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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      • #33
        Originally posted by elmerg View Post
        Man, we can't have any threads without 'BUT I DON'T LIKE V5 AND HERE'S WHY BASED ON ON THIS TOPIC!' can we?
        Yeah, don't do this. The report button exists for a reason.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #34
          Great thread. This is very useful if you want to set a chronicle into the period between the end of the nineties and right now.

          As for the complaints that V5 moved things forward too quickly... V5 did just adapt the Gehenna metaplot without Gehenna really happening. So Theo Bell killed Hardestadt, the Endless Night failed and Augustus Giovanni was removed from power, the Tremere prime chantry was destroyed (less so in V5 than in Gehenna obviously), and so on. Stuff like the many Sabbat's vampires growing dissatisfaction with the role of a Sect who preached bout bringing the fight to the Antediluvians but did nothing of the sort was present even in revisited and became one of the seeds of the Gehenna crusade. In the same vein the Beckoning is a stand in for the Withering that happened during Gehenna.

          In truth V5 mostly evolved what was already present in the metaplot of previous editions and incorporated the events from the End Times books (in case of Gehenna both the module and the novel) into the timeline without having all vampires wiped out. So no, V5 metaplot did not move too fast at all. On the other hand I question the execution of some of those developments, expecially the Beckoning, but generally speaking V5 Core (less so the other books, fortunately) tends to make the most recent events in the VtM metaplot to appear rushed, things that had to happen to enforce the return of the game to its perceived origins. Beckoning aside, I like most of V5 metaplot developements but I really think they could use an in depth explanation so players and Storytellers could have an easier time incorporating them into their games.

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          • #35
            Haquim I agree. I really like almost all of the V5 meta


            “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

            Comment


            • #36
              Metaplot and I’m happy with the direction the game is going. And if you don’t like certain elements of the metaplot, you’re free to ignore them. The metaplot is (I think) basically just a suggested framework that you and your players are free to modify as you see fit. Fall of London for example has a default outcome, but there are lots of other possible results depending on what your group does during the campaign.


              “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

              Comment


              • #37
                I feel like the biggest fault of the V5 corebook was:

                * Too many examples of Predator types
                * Too much in-universe fiction.
                * Too much art

                vs.

                * A write up for all 13 Clans
                * A wrie up for the Sabbat
                * An explanation of the timeline from 2004.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #38
                  I think I must be alone in the fandom universe, but I dislike almost all game-related fiction and grow itchy when it is offered in a Kickstarter as something thought of as an incentive... to each their own, I guess...


                  "No, no, don't look any further, my profile is actually more handsome than me"

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                  • #39
                    CTPhipps I Liked your last post. You said exactly what I was thinking.


                    “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post



                      I wouldn't be surprised if this continues to be how supplements go from now on. I very much would love THE FALL OF VIENNA as a campaign supplement and think it and THE COUNCIL OF PRAGUE would be natural sourcebooks.
                      Id buy that book in a cold minute

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                        I feel like the biggest fault of the V5 corebook was:

                        * Too many examples of Predator types
                        * Too much in-universe fiction.
                        * Too much art

                        vs.

                        * A write up for all 13 Clans
                        * A wrie up for the Sabbat
                        * An explanation of the timeline from 2004.
                        But it does make me want to play many of these predator types ;-)
                        the in-universe fiction is what made me immerse into the game while reading the rules.
                        And I don't need a write up on the Sabbat yet; it would essentially cover one or two additional clans updated to V5.

                        A timeline would be awesome.
                        Last edited by Joe; 06-29-2020, 09:48 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JRRParker View Post
                          - French units begin exterminating vampires in Paris, causing the Camarilla court to flee the domain
                          V5-Camarilla explicitly says that Paris is one of the last bastions of Camarilla power now that London and Berlina have fallen. Pag 119 of V5- Camarila

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