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[V5] How I'm splitting up the Sabbat

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post

    I don't think that there is the sample size to say that merging 2 disciplines is "Normal" and 3 is "Strange" yet. They haven't dealt with most of the "Weird" disciplines yet.
    I think this is meant to make things easier and encourage Storytellers to let players have unique but thematic powers.

    Melonipee probably is just an Alternate Power of Presence now.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
      * The Tzimisce Old Clan becomes an actual sizeable faction and an Independent clan as well as part of all this. They have Animalism, Blood Sorcery, and Protean. Vicissitude is a Ritual for Protean or an Amalgamation of Blood Sorcery and Protean.
      Personally, I would have them keep Auspex somehow. I feel Auspex is more intrinsic to the clan than Animalism or even Protean/Vicissitude, really, and even moreso with the OC crowd. Insular, insightful, paranoid, territorial, erudite, vast intellects, all-seeing, all-knowing, etc.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Garygeneric View Post

        Personally, I would have them keep Auspex somehow. I feel Auspex is more intrinsic to the clan than Animalism or even Protean/Vicissitude, really, and even moreso with the OC crowd. Insular, insightful, paranoid, territorial, erudite, vast intellects, all-seeing, all-knowing, etc.
        Good point.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Garygeneric View Post

          Personally, I would have them keep Auspex somehow. I feel Auspex is more intrinsic to the clan than Animalism or even Protean/Vicissitude, really, and even moreso with the OC crowd. Insular, insightful, paranoid, territorial, erudite, vast intellects, all-seeing, all-knowing, etc.
          Thematically I think their spread should be Animalism, Auspex or Blood Sorcery, and Dominate. They are supposed to be the lords of their Domain, metaphysically tied to the land itself. Animalism is dominion over the lesser beasts of the world, Dominate is dominion over their subjects, and Auspex/Blood Sorcery is dominion over the supernal/spiritual realms. If you wanted to introduce the concept of bloodlines it could break down like this.
          • Dracul/Old Clan Tzimisce - Animalism, Auspex, Dominate
            • The original line, the ancient and hoary lords of the lands beyond the forest.
          • Modern/Kupalan Tzimisce - Animalism, Auspex, Protean(Vicissitude)
            • Whether born of a desire for change or the Eldest infusing itself with the power of Kupala, the Tzimisce of old trade their dominion over the minds of the subjects for that of the flesh.
          • Koldun - Animalism, Blood Sorcery, Dominate (Old Clan) or Protean (Modern)
            • The Koldun trade the more passive sensation of the realm supernal for dominion over the elemental spirits.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Red Eye View Post

            I should be clear I'm not saying that it isn't possible to merge them and allow Protean to provide a path the still gives a sense of the flavor as has happened with other merges. In fact, I can see a super easy route to go with it honestly which I'll lay out here quick to illustrate that:

            Level 1: Malleable Visage (New Power Level for V5, exactly the power from previous editions of the same name that also simulates "Flesh Crafting" from the Level 2)
            Level 2: Feral Weapons (Existing V5 Power Level, sort of simulates "Bone Crafting" from Level 3)
            Level 3: Earth Meld (Existing V5 Power Level, arguably more thematically appropriate for the Clan anyways)
            Level 4: Horrid Form (New Amalgam with Animalism as it is an in Clan already and can lean on tapping the Beast for a more obviously supernatural form unlike existing powers levels)
            Level 5: Mist Form (Existing V5 Power Level, could potentially reword to allow it to do a pool of blood or a cloud of mist which then gives you the exact Bloodform power)

            So there you go, it isn't really Vicissitude, but it would allow the Tzimisce to still essentially come out like they were. One could also argue this solves this issues of how to handle the power being used on other as it would simple axe that from even being a thing and technically only takes adding in two new Power Levels to accomplish (and a rework of an existing one if you want a more exact replication). Kick in a third Power Level of "Body Crafting" at Level 3 and allow that to cover both Flesh and Bone Crafting in one go as it pertains to doing stuff to someone else, and then of course address making sure it has some sense of balance baked into it out of the box, and you'd essentially have them completely (Amalgam it with Auspex to block it off from Gangrel naturally potentially even).

            So, yes, I get that it is something that could be done, and arguably even done fairly easily, but I was simply proposing a different route that could conceivably take things if they wanted to keep Vicissitude around undiluted as a plot device while still allowing Tzimisce to be a playable Clan at the same time.
            I was recently pondering on house-ruling some of Vicissitude's miscellaneous abilities into Protean, but keeping the deliberate flesh-sculpting of other beings, be they mortal or otherwise, specifically locked to Vicissitude. How? By making Vicissitude as we know it into a Koldunic path of sorcery. Make it an in-depth ritual that the Fiends must conduct on others within their haven, say near/around their native soil in fact. This keeps it more in line with its inspirational source material (Necromorph) while also removing all those nasty possible "slap-fuse jaw shut forever" and "slap eyelids shut forever" moves in combat. You cannot do that since it's a slow process ritual conducted within the Tzimisce's home. This would keep the Fiends at their terrifying status. Who would willingly wander into their lair? There could still be all manner of flesh-crafted horrors within, such as chairs and tables made of people, etc. Meanwhile they have Protean. This also means we can just fuse Old Clan and regular Tzimisce closer together too. I'm personally against having so many damn alternate bloodlines and variations of clans. More doesn't always equal better, at least not to me. Take or leave that part as you wish.

            Dracula has Protean, Dominate/Animalism, and Auspex, keeping him closer to the lore in many respects, and maybe he found flesh-sculpting to be a crude and distasteful type of ritual, but oh boy did he enjoy commanding the spirits and nature to do his bidding! This also makes Gangrel and Tzimisce more related as mentioned, but still quite different in ways.

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