These new Lasombras

[Black Flag]

There’s quite a bit of text on the SI already. Plenty of room for more, but it’s not as if we don’t know how to use it in games. I’m already doing so.

[CTPhipps]

Yeah, technically the Camarilla considered everyone to be a part of it, so antitribu makes more sense before they became more elitist.

But it's getting really strenuous trying to work out what the implications of changes are in this edition without them being explicitly listed. We're not even going to get a break down for what the deal is with Second Inquisition for a year and a half, and they're meant to be a major antagonist factor.

The Camarilla book gave us one.

It's just...well...that book is kind of radioactive now.

It said who, what, when, and where about the SI.

[adambeyoncelowe]

Antitribu were primarily the Sabbat analogues of Camarilla clans (except for the Assamite, although that would now apply). The Lasombra antis are the obvious exception.

As for 'sense'--that's subjective, but arguably lots of the setting didn't and doesn't make sense in any edition. I'm less bothered about weird word choices, though, than huge, out-of-character setting changes (like Lasombra in the Camarilla, for instance).

I'd be interested to see the Sabbat book and their take on all this. I'd be much more likely to view the defectors (primarily) as a cover for sect infiltration, with only a small contingent actually wanting to switch sides. That's probably how I'd handle it in my game. Given how Vitel survived using Disciplines, it would be easy to imagine other elders orchestrating a similar 'demise' to buy their clanmates entry into the Camarilla. (But then, I also liked the idea of Nephandi infiltrating the upper echelons of mage society, because it was thematically appropriate for the World of Darkness.)

[Muad'Dib]

I loved the concept of antitribu, as well as the word! Damn!

I like the concept and the idea of the Antitribu, and the word, very much as well. That the Antitribu are a significant shift or twist of the usual Clan attitudes, outlooks, perspectives, and approaches.

[blailton]

I liked the concept of antitribu too. More clean and easy.

[Black Flag]

I liked the concept of antitribu too. More clean and easy.

Not so clean or easy if there are three or more major sects, though, is it?

[Muad'Dib]

Not so clean or easy if there are three or more major sects, though, is it?

The word Antitribu could refer to Vampires who are members of the Sabbat or inclined towards this Sect in their outlooks and approaches. If majority of a Clan would be in the Sabbat, this word would refer to the members of the Clan opposed to or somehow against the Sabbat. I think that this is what this word means in the non-V5 V:tM continuity.
Another meaning / use of this word - one that could be used in V5 - could be in regard to members of a Clan who are significantly and distinctly different from the majority of the Clan, and/or opposed to them.

[PMárk]

Exactly. The facts changed, so the appellations did as well. Antitribu made sense in prior editions. It doesn’t anymore though - note that even the Camarilla clans will have large Anarch factions because the Cam shrunk down to „whoever is useful or powerful enough“. I would assume there are very few clans that have a majority of their members in a single sect by now. Tremere and Ventrue for the Cam, Brujah for Anarchs. Perhaps the Ministry as well. Everyone else may have strong pluralities at best.

And that's exactly the problem, to some extent.

They've changd the sect dynamics (and the lookout of the sects) profoundly, which, in turn, changes many-many things, which were staple for decades. So, the game feels less and less as the same game and every change like this just hammers it down more.

[PMárk]

The Camarilla book gave us one.

It's just...well...that book is kind of radioactive now.

It said who, what, when, and where about the SI.

And it wasn't even particularly good, in my oppinion. It did went into total gonzoness, which was a nice "CWoD feel", but the book contradicted itself pretty badly at places, regarding the SI and in their own chapter, it was portrayed waaay to powerfully, compared to its size and resources, IMO.

[PMárk]

Another meaning / use of this word - one that could be used in V5 - could be in regard to members of a Clan who are significantly and distinctly different from the majority of the Clan, and/or opposed to them.

Yup. Except if we're assuming that "everyone is everywhere equally", as it is with the VtR Covenants.

[Muad'Dib]

Yup. Except if we're assuming that "everyone is everywhere equally", as it is with the VtR Covenants.

Aren't there some smaller ( or minor ) tendencies of Clans towards specific Convenants in V:tR ? It has been a long time since I read V:tR books, but whitewolf wiki mentions : Gangrel towards Circle of the Crone, Ventrue towards Invictus, and Daeva towards Invictus and Lancea Sanctum, as tendencies in regard to this.

[Cifer]

And that's exactly the problem, to some extent.

They've changd the sect dynamics (and the lookout of the sects) profoundly, which, in turn, changes many-many things, which were staple for decades. So, the game feels less and less as the same game and every change like this just hammers it down more.

i thought the problem was that there was no reason behind the removal of the Antitribu appellation and it was just „change for change‘s sake“. Now it’s that change is happening at all.

And yet, it is still entirely possible to play in a setting that is barely distinguishable from the usual V20 one. It won’t be the most average V5 setting, but who cares about average?

[Muad'Dib]

And yet, it is still entirely possible to play in a setting that is barely distinguishable from the usual V20 one. It won’t be the most average V5 setting, but who cares about average?

Do you mean the standard possibility of playing in a city, an area, or a region where the circumstances are different than what is outlined in the books as the norm ?

[Cifer]

Basically, yes. But this is not „just rewrite half the book!“ – the core book already contains the older setting. It details what an intact Camarilla power structure looks like, with Prince, Primogen, Harpies and so on. How much of that you want to break via Beckoning, SI, Anarch uprising or Camarilla withdrawal is up to you, even though the book implies few cities will have gone totally unscathed.

[Muad'Dib]

Basically, yes. But this is not „just rewrite half the book!“ – the core book already contains the older setting. It details what an intact Camarilla power structure looks like, with Prince, Primogen, Harpies and so on. How much of that you want to break via Beckoning, SI, Anarch uprising or Camarilla withdrawal is up to you, even though the book implies few cities will have gone totally unscathed.

It is good to hear that they did this. Maybe with time V5 will become more similar and/or comparable to the non-V5 V:tM continuity and setting.