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  • Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
    Aren't there some smaller ( or minor ) tendencies of Clans towards specific Convenants in V:tR ? It has been a long time since I read V:tR books, but whitewolf wiki mentions : Gangrel towards Circle of the Crone, Ventrue towards Invictus, and Daeva towards Invictus and Lancea Sanctum, as tendencies in regard to this.
    Maybe, I'm not that versed in VtR lore. I don't remember that from the core, but I've read it a while.

    What I know of one of the things those who favored VtR back then listed as one of the points where VtR "set right everything that was bad in VtM" was the clan allegiances between factions (and the big, antagonistic factions themselves).


    If nothing worked, then let's think!

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    • Originally posted by Cifer View Post
      i thought the problem was that there was no reason behind the removal of the Antitribu appellation and it was just „change for change‘s sake“. Now it’s that change is happening at all.
      Eh. It goes like this: there are some profound changes, which, in turn led to many minor changes. After the umpteenth minor change, it leeads to the impression of "yet another change just for the sake of changing", even if it's connected to one of the big profound changes.

      Especially, since as Muad'Dib wrote, the apellation could still have a meaning, so yes, it feels like changing it, when it's not strictly necessary, even if you can tie it to a big change.


      If nothing worked, then let's think!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by PMárk View Post
        Eh. It goes like this: there are some profound changes, which, in turn led to many minor changes. After the umpteenth minor change, it leeads to the impression of "yet another change just for the sake of changing", even if it's connected to one of the big profound changes.

        Especially, since as Muad'Dib wrote, the apellation could still have a meaning, so yes, it feels like changing it, when it's not strictly necessary, even if you can tie it to a big change.
        But even if we used the appellation of Muad'Dib, the meaning would still have changed, from a specific allegiance (Ravnos Antitribu describes Ravnos in the Sabbat, not non-independent Ravnos - and the Salubri Antitribu don't even have a main clan beyond a few hermits anymore) to "whoever is not biggest faction". And who knows? Maybe the term will come back with a specific meaning, perhaps describing the Sabbat clans once more than "they're out there and you don't want to meet them" is known about them.

        Comment


        • The new Lasombra weakness is sort of textbook V5.

          Step 1: Take an idea that I actually really like.

          Step 2: Horrible implementation, whether in terms of crunch or fluff, which are only made more frustrating by Step 1.

          Overall I'd be more than happy to run this weakness, just house-ruled to actually work well in the system.

          Summarize the weakness as:

          The Lasombra's image and voice are rendered uncanny in certain contexts, and this can risk revealing their true nature. The source of this curse is unknown, although some apocryphal tales refer to a dark bargain struck between the Lasombra Antedeluvian and the Abyss itself, which led to the consumption of various elements like reflections (and, according to some accounts, even their souls...). The Lasombra lack reflections and (far less notably) their voices do not echo. Photographs and visual recordings of the Lasombra produce blurry and distorted images, which simultaneously damage and protect the Masquerade. Digital recording and transmission of their voice is warped by static.

          This weakness attracts the attention of both hunters and other night folk, and as a result many Lasombra are withdrawn, minimizing their time spent in public in this digital world. The curse has situational benefits, hiding evidence of wrongdoing and protecting the identity of a Vampire, but the drawbacks are considerable. And despite many Lasombra despising ghouls, many cannot do without them if they wish to look their best...

          System: in the presence of reflective surfaces, other characters may roll Perception + Alertness (difficulty 7, although this may be modified up or down depending on the size and abundance of reflective surfaces, and the state of viewers) to observe that the Lasombra lacks a reflection. Any person observing a photograph, live feed or audio/video recording of a Lasombra will note the distortions without a roll, although many will not understand the supernatural significance, perhaps blaming faulty equipment first. This distortion is never "invisible" and will stand out unless the voice or image are a small part of a much larger scene. If a Lasombra attempts to record their voice or communicate using their voice via technological means, this will always fail without a roll. Communication through texting or similar is unhindered.

          This weakness effects technology such as dictaphones, smart phones, CCTV and radio, but does not effect images created through means such as painting, or sounds amplified via an instrument like a horn.

          Since the Lasombra cannot observe their own appearance, rolls to prepare their clothing, hair, makeup and similar are made at +2 difficulty.
          Last edited by 11twiggins; 01-03-2019, 08:49 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
            The new Lasombra weakness is sort of textbook V5.

            Step 1: Take an idea that I actually really like.

            Step 2: Horrible implementation, whether in terms of crunch or fluff, which are only made more frustrating by Step 1.

            Overall I'd be more than happy to run this weakness, just house-ruled to actually work well in the system.
            That's how I feel about so much of V5 - Hunger, SI attacks on vampires, etc etc

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
              The new Lasombra weakness is sort of textbook V5.

              System: in the presence of reflective surfaces, other characters may roll Perception + Alertness (difficulty 7, although this may be modified up or down depending on the size and abundance of reflective surfaces, and the state of viewers) to observe that the Lasombra lacks a reflection. Any person observing a photograph, live feed or audio/video recording of a Lasombra will note the distortions without a roll, although many will not understand the supernatural significance, perhaps blaming faulty equipment first. This distortion is never "invisible" and will stand out unless the voice or image are a small part of a much larger scene. If a Lasombra attempts to record their voice or communicate using their voice via technological means, this will always fail without a roll. Communication through texting or similar is unhindered.

              This weakness effects technology such as dictaphones, smart phones, CCTV and radio, but does not effect images created through means such as painting, or sounds amplified via an instrument like a horn.

              Since the Lasombra cannot observe their own appearance, rolls to prepare their clothing, hair, makeup and similar are made at +2 difficulty.
              What's your idea for a V5 style weakness though, with sliding difficulty?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Illithid View Post

                What's your idea for a V5 style weakness though, with sliding difficulty?
                If I were running banes which went from 1 to 5 (a system I'm making for the V20+ thing that I will probably finish in like 5 years time at this rate) then 1 would be the lack of reflection and the surrounding problems, 2 would add the problem with images and sounds, and 3+ would then start to make the Lasombra seem uncanny and strange even through normal observation, and especially through means like Awareness and True Faith.

                At 1, you're noticing they don't have a reflection.

                At 2 they can't call you or skype, and CCTV has this weird slenderman figure instead of a person, or some staticy mist.

                At 3 their shadow is slightly too large, which is sort of... concerning. -1 difficulty to Awareness or True Faith (or similar) rolls to determine what you are, or that you're a threat. -1 difficulty to attempts to figure out that they are a Vampire.

                At 4 there is something ineffably concerning about the way they look and sound, which any sensitive person will pick up on immediately. Those with Awareness, True Faith or similar will intuitively understand what they are. -2 difficulty to normal attempts to figure out that they are a Vampire.

                At 5 their visage is terrifying to mortals and animals, although those with experience in supernatural matters (ghouls, sorcerers, kinfolk) won't be hampered by this terror unless they are particularly craven (or face a particularly strong attempt at intimidation of course). Existing in public simply isn't an option if they value the Masquerade, which may be why so few Lasombra Elders sided with the Camarilla from the very beginning...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                  The new Lasombra weakness is sort of textbook V5.

                  Step 1: Take an idea that I actually really like.

                  Step 2: Horrible implementation, whether in terms of crunch or fluff, which are only made more frustrating by Step 1.
                  What are the other 'textbook V5' horrible implementations of ideas ?

                  Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
                  Since the Lasombra cannot observe their own appearance, rolls to prepare their clothing, hair, makeup and similar are made at +2 difficulty.
                  I would change the wording to a different one than "Cannot observe their own appearance" ; as this is possible without the use of mirror - it is just that the head and the back can't be observed. Also, I think that there shouldn't be an increase of difficulty to prepare clothing if Lasombra is doing this on her ( or his ) own ; or it should be a +1 difficulty at most. I just checked, and I think that without using mirror a person can see enough clothing to be able to judge and adjust it.

                  I think that instead of the new "can't be seen or heard clearly through technological devices" in addition to having no reflection, it should be something like the Lasombra tempolarily marring items black ( only portable items - so no surfaces ) that they touch with hands for the first time. With increased Bane Severity this would be any ( portable ) items that they don't own and/or that they haven't held for a few minutes.
                  Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-05-2019, 05:15 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                    That's how I feel about so much of V5 - Hunger, SI attacks on vampires, etc etc
                    Precisely. So many good ideas, wasted on rushed execution, or interesting story elements taken too far, changing the setting too much.

                    What's your idea for a V5 style weakness though, with sliding difficulty?
                    If you don't mind me adding my 5forints to this: the weaknesses having multiple levels is actually a very good idea.


                    If nothing worked, then let's think!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                      If you don't mind me adding my 5forints to this: the weaknesses having multiple levels is actually a very good idea.
                      I think that at Bane Severity 4 and 5 a Vampire should get some minor bonus or advantage. For example : a bonus to an Attribute in specific situations or circumstances ; a single Disipline Power being more effective once per night, or in very specific situations ; a bonus to increasing some Attributes or Skills ; gaining a speciality for an Attribute or a Skill being natural or easier.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                        I think that at Bane Severity 4 and 5 a Vampire should get some minor bonus or advantage. For example : a bonus to an Attribute in specific situations or circumstances ; a single Disipline Power being more effective once per night, or in very specific situations ; a bonus to increasing some Attributes or Skills ; gaining a speciality for an Attribute or a Skill being natural or easier.
                        How about adding four dice to rolls when using blood surge, healing three points of damage per rouse, adding three dice to all disciplines and roughly halfing the cost of all disciplines at level four and below?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                          I think that at Bane Severity 4 and 5 a Vampire should get some minor bonus or advantage. For example : a bonus to an Attribute in specific situations or circumstances ; a single Disipline Power being more effective once per night, or in very specific situations ; a bonus to increasing some Attributes or Skills ; gaining a speciality for an Attribute or a Skill being natural or easier.
                          The fitting bonus for Lasombra would be finding it easier to cow mortals, inexperienced ghouls, neonates and fledgelings. At bane severity 4 and 5 they are increasingly terrifying to someone who hasn't fully embraced the supernatural, after all. So it's definitely a curse, but it means that their Dominate and Presence use vs. a terrified human or their new childe will be slightly easier.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post

                            What are the other 'textbook V5' horrible implementations of ideas ?


                            I would change the wording to a different one than "Cannot observe their own appearance" ; as this is possible without the use of mirror - it is just that the head and the back can't be observed. Also, I think that there shouldn't be an increase of difficulty to prepare clothing if Lasombra is doing this on her ( or his ) own
                            .
                            Hunger and Compulsions are the biggies. But honestly if you name a V5 mechanic or piece of fluff, chances are my take on it will be "not a terrible idea, in a skilled writer's hands it could have been good" or "that's a really great idea actually, shame your execution was botched". Consistently I have just found that those are my most common reactions to the ideas presented in V5.

                            As for the mirror thing, that's a good point. But adjusting a tie or waistcoat, or a dress, is much harder if you're having to crane your neck and look down all the time. +2 difficulty to all rolls relating to preparing your appearance seems like a good flat penalty to me, since the weakness is already pretty long.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                              The fitting bonus for Lasombra would be finding it easier to cow mortals, inexperienced ghouls, neonates and fledgelings. At bane severity 4 and 5 they are increasingly terrifying to someone who hasn't fully embraced the supernatural, after all. So it's definitely a curse, but it means that their Dominate and Presence use vs. a terrified human or their new childe will be slightly easier.
                              I thought about this one as well, that the Lasombra with Bane Severity 4-5 would get a bonus to exerting authority and intimidation. Good idea with it being in regard to persons who aren't fully initiated into the supernatural. I would make it either this, and have it affect all Presence and Dominate uses in regard to such persons ; or make it a bonus to social actions in such circumstances after the Lasombra uses Presence or Dominate.
                              Or maybe Lasombra with Bane Severity 4-5 would gain an overall bonus for Dominate 1 Command when it is used to enforce or to establish the Lasombra's authority, perspective, and outlook.
                              Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-07-2019, 10:32 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

                                The fitting bonus for Lasombra would be finding it easier to cow mortals, inexperienced ghouls, neonates and fledgelings. At bane severity 4 and 5 they are increasingly terrifying to someone who hasn't fully embraced the supernatural, after all. So it's definitely a curse, but it means that their Dominate and Presence use vs. a terrified human or their new childe will be slightly easier.
                                That's actually a pretty neat idea. Would be really thematic and would make a great contrast to the Ventrue. The latter would impose the urge on lesser vampires and mortals to defer to them, the Lasombra, on the other hand, impose pure, instinctual fear (of the dark) and menace.


                                If nothing worked, then let's think!

                                Comment

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