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  • Little_Miss_ Serneholt
    started a topic These new Lasombras

    These new Lasombras

    I saw something on Facebook about these new Lasombras and I agree with that poster:

    Making the Lasombra bane have a Bane Severity +2 to use any modern technology will ruin the play for many concepts of playing a Lasombra. This will be the only clan who is forced to put dots in technology and maybe drive just to being able to exist. They will not be able to use smartphones modern radions, mp3s, TVs DVDs Videos or cameras. This was prbably the worst thing i have seen in this book.

    Most appartment houses/blocks in Scandinavia has a electronic lock to get into the building before you can go up to your appartment. And you will have to wait for a happy neighbour to go out because you cannot get back home and you better have a ghoul who will stay by the door so that you wont be exposed to the morning sun as we do not have milk men and most post is delivered around lunch.

    You must really have wanted that Lasombras would be forced to be anachronistic and use cellphoes from the 80's (if the game master is kind) and most modern TVS and other equipment that uses remote controls will be impossible to use, which is quite bad write up in my opinion. This to me is to ruin my favourite clan. But you dont want the lasombra to have a fighting chance so I understand.

    Then they are wandering masquerade breakers and cant move in cities like London, Stockholm, or use any modern subway system without buying at least obfuscate 3, which will be approximately 36-42 game sessions. So that they can enjoy Ghost in the Machine and Unseen Presence.

    The Lasombras who come to Chicago has already broken the masquerade by travelling from one airport to another, with that security o modern airports they have already been outed, not to mention all traffic cameras or security cameras i neighbourhoods, atm machines (forget that they wont be able to use them, or a standard credit card - ,aybe they will walk around with loot bags with gold coins).

    No, this supplement really ruined this clan and that was sad.

    Mind that I love Oblivion (best discipline this far - so alien and fun) and the story with the Lasombras, its just that it will not be practical to play them.


    But this might want me to remove myself from the kickstarter
















  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post

    That's a good angle to explore, especially with higher Humanity Lasombra inside and outside the Sabbat, and more secure Lasombra. But it's worth remembering that the vast majority of the Sabbat (numbers wise) seem to be very insecure and want to constantly prove their inhumanity, and how they are better than humans or different from them. The great distinction between an Elder Fiend or Keeper and neonates in their clans can be that the former has little to prove. They treat their ghouls as they like (which could be very well or horrifically), and a desire to seem like they've moved beyond human scruples won't control them at all.

    Essentially the exemplars within the Sabbat, the shining stars, are those who have moved beyond their "I'm so evil I'd eat a baby" phase. They do things for a reason.
    I think that the younger Sabbat members are so cruel and horrible towards mundane humans and Ghouls for more complex reasons than insecurity or proving that they moved past the attitudes and values of mundane humans. There is definitely an element of exploring their capabilities, and considering their perspectives.

    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
    The core writeups for the Tzimisce and Lasombra painting them as being horrible to humans and ghouls seems like a good idea.
    Do you think that these two Clans should have it in their outlooks and approaches more than ( most ) other Clans ( and Bloodlines ) ? I think this shouldn't be one of principals trait of Vampires of this Clan ; but I have nothing in particular against it being a trait of considerable importance.

    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
    Sample stories should show how exceptions work and how characters can contrast their clan stereotype in interesting ways. Sidebars devoted to this sort of thing would be very good IMO.
    Agreed on this ; more sidebars overall in WoD books providing further elaboration and explanations would be good.

    Leave a comment:


  • 11twiggins
    replied
    Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
    I always thought that this should be toned down - at least in regard to Ghouls - to only being done to an extent ; or to an outlook that gets put into deeds and practice only rarely. It just seems unrealistic and extremely radical, so much that it largely misses the point - that Vampires are superior and better. Vampire supremacy makes much more sense ( and can be considered and explored better ) if it is admitted that Ghouls and mundane humans can have ( and do have ) noteworthy and positive personal characteristics, traits, qualities, and attributes.
    That's a good angle to explore, especially with higher Humanity Lasombra inside and outside the Sabbat, and more secure Lasombra. But it's worth remembering that the vast majority of the Sabbat (numbers wise) seem to be very insecure and want to constantly prove their inhumanity, and how they are better than humans or different from them. The great distinction between an Elder Fiend or Keeper and neonates in their clans can be that the former has little to prove. They treat their ghouls as they like (which could be very well or horrifically), and a desire to seem like they've moved beyond human scruples won't control them at all.

    Essentially the exemplars within the Sabbat, the shining stars, are those who have moved beyond their "I'm so evil I'd eat a baby" phase. They do things for a reason.

    The core writeups for the Tzimisce and Lasombra painting them as being horrible to humans and ghouls seems like a good idea. Sample stories should show how exceptions work and how characters can contrast their clan stereotype in interesting ways. Sidebars devoted to this sort of thing would be very good IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
    (...)
    And the Lasombra view of Mortals is almost entirely explained by the weakness I've written. Their clan's culture of hating and mocking mortals, and Ghouls, is founded upon how pathetic kine are when in their presence. Furthermore, the fact that they rely on Ghouls is just twisting the knife further. These cowed and weak fools are necessary if you want to look presentable, or if you want to exert influence on Kine.
    I always thought that this should be toned down - at least in regard to Ghouls - to only being done to an extent ; or to an outlook that gets put into deeds and practice only rarely. It just seems unrealistic and extremely radical, so much that it largely misses the point - that Vampires are superior and better. Vampire supremacy makes much more sense ( and can be considered and explored better ) if it is considered that Ghouls and mundane humans can have ( and do have ) noteworthy and positive personal characteristics, traits, qualities, and attributes.
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-19-2019, 05:38 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicolas Milioni
    replied
    Originally posted by Little_Miss_ Serneholt View Post


    Obsession to delve into the mysteries of death or the occult and become increasingly morbid hence lowering their social rolls by their Bane Severity
    i like it!

    Leave a comment:


  • Little_Miss_ Serneholt
    replied
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    That's a good spread. What Compulsion do you imagine for them?

    Obsession to delve into the mysteries of death or the occult and become increasingly morbid hence lowering their social rolls by their Bane Severity

    Leave a comment:


  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by PMárk View Post
    Agree there too. The prophetic/insightfull thing was also something that got alluded frequently, but the rules mostly didn't cover it much.
    I am thinking that Malkavians with Bane Severity 4 and 5 could gain something like a bonus to actions which involve rolling a specific Attribute + Ability combination in regard to a very specific topic, interest, or goal. Maybe this could only be used once per a period of time.
    Or maybe they could gain for a single Ability cheaper experience costs.
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-09-2019, 04:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 11twiggins
    replied
    Originally posted by PMárk View Post

    That's actually a pretty neat idea. Would be really thematic and would make a great contrast to the Ventrue. The latter would impose the urge on lesser vampires and mortals to defer to them, the Lasombra, on the other hand, impose pure, instinctual fear (of the dark) and menace.
    I'm a big fan of the two clans as flawed reflections of eachother. The Ventrue respect the Masquerade and surround themselves with Ghouls, human retainers, employees, underlings, Childer... The Lasombra don't fit into our modern world so much. They work exclusively through Ghouls and other Vampires. Hence their difficulty working in the Camarilla; not only are they a Masquerade risk in the modern era, they are also at the Prince's mercy. Lasombra need to have Childer and Ghouls doing their work for them, since existing in public is difficult. The Prince is technically able to veto the latter, and certainly able to stop the former. They fit much better into the Sabbat, where Secrecy is all that matters and Vampires are all free (for any given value of free).

    And the Lasombra view of Mortals is almost entirely explained by the weakness I've written. Their clan's culture of hating and mocking mortals, and Ghouls, is founded upon how pathetic kine are when in their presence. Furthermore, the fact that they rely on Ghouls is just twisting the knife further. These cowed and weak fools are necessary if you want to look presentable, or if you want to exert influence on Kine.

    Leave a comment:


  • PMárk
    replied
    Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
    I think that the Lasombra shouldn't be compared to the Ventrue as much as they are. For me the high Bane Severity additional ability ( or abilities ) should be based on ( themed around ) assurance, directness, and ambition.
    I'd agree. I never liked the notion that the Lasombra are "just Ventrues with obtenebration".


    One Clan that I think could really use some more rules and development / elaboration in regard to high Bane Severity is the Malkavians. The older Malkavians - and the younger ones, but to a lesser extent - are often said to gain from madness insight and unorthodox approaches.
    Agree there too. The prophetic/insightfull thing was also something that got alluded frequently, but the rules mostly didn't cover it much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicolas Milioni
    replied
    Originally posted by Little_Miss_ Serneholt View Post
    I wonder how the Nagaraja would look in V5

    Auspex Blood sorcery and Oblivion?
    That's a good spread. What Compulsion do you imagine for them?

    Leave a comment:


  • thebiglarpnerd
    replied
    Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
    I think that the Lasombra shouldn't be compared to the Ventrue as much as they are. For me the high Bane Severity additional ability ( or abilities ) should be based on ( themed around ) assurance, directness, and ambition.

    One Clan that I think could really use some more rules and development / elaboration in regard to high Bane Severity is the Malkavians. The older Malkavians - and the younger ones, but to a lesser extent - are often said to gain from madness insight and unorthodox approaches.
    Eh. A flaw is supposed to be a flaw, not 'a flaw with a bennie of foresight' or something. Besides, there's an entire Malkavian madness network Loresheet in the Chicago book.

    Leave a comment:


  • Little_Miss_ Serneholt
    replied
    I wonder how the Nagaraja would look in V5

    Auspex Blood sorcery and Oblivion?

    Leave a comment:


  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by PMárk View Post

    That's actually a pretty neat idea. Would be really thematic and would make a great contrast to the Ventrue. The latter would impose the urge on lesser vampires and mortals to defer to them, the Lasombra, on the other hand, impose pure, instinctual fear (of the dark) and menace.
    I think that the Lasombra shouldn't be compared to the Ventrue as much as they are. For me the high Bane Severity additional ability ( or abilities ) should be based on ( themed around ) assurance, directness, and ambition.

    One Clan that I think could really use some more rules and development / elaboration in regard to high Bane Severity is the Malkavians. The older Malkavians - and the younger ones, but to a lesser extent - are often said to gain from madness insight and unorthodox approaches.
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-08-2019, 10:23 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
    As for the mirror thing, that's a good point. But adjusting a tie or waistcoat, or a dress, is much harder if you're having to crane your neck and look down all the time. +2 difficulty to all rolls relating to preparing your appearance seems like a good flat penalty to me, since the weakness is already pretty long.
    +2 Difficulty is 2 extra successes in the old style. That's massive.

    Leave a comment:


  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by 11twiggins View Post
    Hunger and Compulsions are the biggies. But honestly if you name a V5 mechanic or piece of fluff, chances are my take on it will be "not a terrible idea, in a skilled writer's hands it could have been good" or "that's a really great idea actually, shame your execution was botched". Consistently I have just found that those are my most common reactions to the ideas presented in V5.
    I think part of the problem with V5 is that so many major changes and developments were introduced while relatively little material / writings have been published for it. Maybe it will get ( much ) better within a few months or years, as the changes to the setting are detailed, defined, and described.

    Leave a comment:

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