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The Methods of the Ministry

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  • The Methods of the Ministry

    Tomorrow night my coterie will be meeting the Ministry for the first time to negotiate for an artistic artefact on behalf of the Prince. Whilst the Ministers have a goal in mind, they'll also want something personal from each character, or to "help" each character in a subtle way. Any thoughts or ideas as to what, but also why? I've always struggled to put the motives of Set's chosen into words. Don’t worry too much about the characters here, as I’m just as interested in general corruption ideas, methods and reasons as specific ones

  • #2
    They just have to help them to prepare a party and later join it.

    The party won´t have any dangers for the characters in fact they would get free food , lots of fun and possible allies in the future (they will be always too much friendly).

    The Trick is that while in the party their convictions or human values will be tested so it is expected that at the end of the party they get some stains or a humanity lost.

    From the Settite perspective they are just HELPING the coterie break their moral limitations and espiritual chains.They want to do this becuase
    A) They are vice providers and this will devolop dependency to the cult.If the coterie becomes dependent they win a new tool.
    B) They are egyptian themed übermensch wannabes.If the coterie breaks their moral limitations but in the process they rebuilt their own beliefs accepting their own vices or are motivated in doing so they win too.


    Hunger pool

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    • #3
      I gave this statement in my games. "The most terrifying and horrifying power of the Followers of Set, Ministry, or whatever you want to call them is they will sincerely help you with whatever you want to do without judgement or trying to backstab you unless you try to do it to them first. They will help you become rich, they will help you seduce the woman or man you want, and they will help you destroy a rival but would prefer you join together against the world. Diablerie? They'll embrace someone for you to devour so you can go down a generation. All out of love for you. You are a fellow god, family, and their brother. This is so alien to other vampires that they are viewed as the worst of their kind. Perhaps they are."
      Last edited by CTPhipps; 12-02-2018, 10:09 AM.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #4
        Both interesting ideas. Do you ever give players a reason for why they do what they do? if you don't, what is your reason for why they do it? I've been re-reading the FoS revised Clanbook today and feel like i'm struggling to get to the nub of that. I like the idea that they see the Soul as Divine, and the physical world as a Prison and therefore 'god' as the enemy, but i've hit a blank when it comes to why corrupting someone, giving them what they want, feeding their base desires would achieve that - it seems like it's actually strengthening their ties to the physical.

        For me, i think i need to get to the heart of why they're doing this to get into their headspace. I've one plan so far in that one character is desperate to find their sire who abandoned them after the Embrace, i'm planning on making that Sire a Setite convert. However i still want to engage the whole troupe as well as get an idea on the endgame.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
          Both interesting ideas. Do you ever give players a reason for why they do what they do? if you don't, what is your reason for why they do it? I've been re-reading the FoS revised Clanbook today and feel like i'm struggling to get to the nub of that. I like the idea that they see the Soul as Divine, and the physical world as a Prison and therefore 'god' as the enemy, but i've hit a blank when it comes to why corrupting someone, giving them what they want, feeding their base desires would achieve that - it seems like it's actually strengthening their ties to the physical.

          For me, i think i need to get to the heart of why they're doing this to get into their headspace. I've one plan so far in that one character is desperate to find their sire who abandoned them after the Embrace, i'm planning on making that Sire a Setite convert. However i still want to engage the whole troupe as well as get an idea on the endgame.
          The Ministry is different from other vampires save perhaps the Sabbat in that they sincerely believe in their religion. You can have Ministry members who don't but the whole thing is their motives are to make vampires enjoy being a vampire as well as appreciate the blessings of their faith. If you've played Demon: The Fallen then they have exactly the same motives as Pre-Fallen Luciferians.

          "Give gifts of knowledge, freedom, pleasure, and power to humans/fellow undead."

          It's just being vampires that can be some pretty screwed up things.

          If a vampire frenzies and kills his girlfriend, for example, the Setite will do their best to console them and say, "It's okay. She was going to die anyway. You made a mistake. It was not embracing her or feeding from multiple women in the first place. Were they insolent? Such a shame but they were taking their life in their own hand."

          In V5, they have very strong Conviction and Resolve but twisted Ambitions as well as Convictions.

          Think of them very much as the Miltonian Satan. "It is better to rule in Hell than service in Heaven." The only people they genuinely hate are gods and religions that make you feel humble, submissive, and guilt-ridden for whatever you wish to do. They are free, wild, and beyond good or evil (or so they think).


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #6
            Nice idea. Strangely I’d been reading up on the Church of Satan and thier commandments for this reason, but I’ll have a look in Demon too. I think I’m getting quite hung up on old school Setites and the fact that the other clans are technically enemies. The above helps asa guideline and reframes them somewhat. I want it all to be offers too good to be true...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
              Nice idea. Strangely I’d been reading up on the Church of Satan and thier commandments for this reason, but I’ll have a look in Demon too. I think I’m getting quite hung up on old school Setites and the fact that the other clans are technically enemies. The above helps asa guideline and reframes them somewhat. I want it all to be offers too good to be true...
              Well my take is that their offers are terrible and will destroy you. However, it's because vampires NEED guilt and restraint to avoid becoming monsters.

              Setites wonder what's so bad with being a monster.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • #8
                About what to tell the players just say that they want to help them becuase it´s true , it´s just only that if you fail getting helped then you are their slave.Followers of set are very inspired by Nietzche.

                As I said think of them like Ubermench wannabes , they aren´t only against the slave moral mentality of religions like the moral christianity but also against moral conventions imposed by the society.They want to help people devoloping a Master Mentality by confronting them against their own vices if they fail well then they have an slave mentality and can be used as tools and pawns.Everyone has a paper in Suketh plan

                Here you have some info on this mentality and yes it is very hypocrite from their own point of view to belive in Set as a Dark Mesiah
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master...slave_morality

                PD:Talking about the church of satan I will leave this here
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Set
                Last edited by Leandro16; 12-02-2018, 12:27 PM.


                Hunger pool

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                • #9
                  Wow, what have I let myself in for! Some great reading material there and I like the idea of invoking Nietzsche as a morality basis, even if I’ll have to massively simplify it to fit it into the session.

                  For the session tomorrow, I wanted them to be helpful. Essentially it was going to be a case of: “This is what was agreed on in the bargain, but for us to fulfil it, we want to know your desires as well so we can show you the Bounty and Glory Of Set” I can see how some of those desires will be quite dramatic to role play , hence bringing the Ministry into session. I did want to have something to say to the coterie to help justify thier position, and this has helped. I’m thinking something like the below:

                  “Whilst we don’t believe in the Christian God, there is one thing the Bible and those old stories got right. When Adam and Eve were cast down from the Garden, the ‘sin’ they committed was one the real creator abhors - that of knowledge and experience. To understand, learn and experience the pleasures available to us is to turn away from a God that wants to keep you weak and powerless. Set would rise you up, and help you escape this cruelty”

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
                    (...) Don’t worry too much about the characters here, as I’m just as interested in general corruption ideas, methods and reasons as specific ones
                    Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
                    (...) but i've hit a blank when it comes to why corrupting someone, giving them what they want, feeding their base desires would achieve that - it seems like it's actually strengthening their ties to the physical.
                    ( A late reply, but maybe it will help in future sessions. )

                    I haven't read the Followers of Set Clanbooks, so somebody correct me if I am wrong. While the spirit is deemed more important than the physical, being tied to the physical is a minor issue for the Followers of Set compared to the major problem of - as the Followers of Set think and believe is the case - the Aeons ( deities other than Set ) influencing and dictating the way of life, beliefs, and course of societies.

                    Vice and corruption are deemed by the Followers of Set to be one of principal ways and tools to free persons from being locked into this seemingly attractive, but ultimately limiting and futile attitude and approach to life. A stable eight hour job, family ( including the extended one, and family trips ), literary classics lauded by the literary critics, popular culture. As the Followers of Set see it, many persons trust this vision of life, and similar and comparable ones, to such an extent and in such a way that the best way is making a person give to vice ( or : corrupting a person ) in such a way so that all of those supposedly important and supposedly objectively worthwhile elements of her or his life will be first put aside, and then discarded. One of the reasons why vice is used is because it considerably contributes towards the possibility of ruination of a person's life, which can help liberate a person from the incorrect assumptions and approaches that she or he had. There are other reasons, as well ; vice stokes passions, and it can bring new perspectives, and lead to self-awareness and wisdom.

                    Those who end up getting consumed by vices do fail, to a large extent. One very obvious reason why is because they become incapable of progressing further, because they are too ruined and/or too dependent. However, I think what is most important - and the principal reason why some could be said to have failed - is the fact that because they focused too much on the vice(s), they are convinced that they have discarded other parts of their life because of the vice(s). They don't realize that those parts of their life should have been discarded because these parts were not worthwhile enough, or outright worthless.

                    I will consider this later, and maybe I will write more in regard to this, and the Followers of Set overall.
                    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 12-04-2018, 04:15 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                      I gave this statement in my games. "The most terrifying and horrifying power of the Followers of Set, Ministry, or whatever you want to call them is they will sincerely help you with whatever you want to do without judgement or trying to backstab you unless you try to do it to them first. They will help you become rich, they will help you seduce the woman or man you want, and they will help you destroy a rival but would prefer you join together against the world. Diablerie? They'll embrace someone for you to devour so you can go down a generation. All out of love for you. You are a fellow god, family, and their brother. This is so alien to other vampires that they are viewed as the worst of their kind. Perhaps they are."
                      Yes, except on the embrace part. Their Blood is a sacrament, and they would owe the new childe a spiritual education too.


                      It is a time for great deeds!

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                      • #12
                        The session went well and so far the characters seemed very intrigued by what is being offered by the Ministry. i've had the lead Minister ask for 3 things from my characters in exchange for the important piece of Art (A sculpture of one of the Prince's Ancestors). After jokingly requesting the 'Complete and total surrender of the Camarilla governing body' they switched to something easier - Firstly Domain rights on a bit of Land and sanctuary for 3 of their Church (Allegedly pre-agreed upon), As well as to know what each character desires the most so the Ministry can help them to achieve these goals, and finally that in the future they help the Ministry understand how to help another Kindred in the new city.

                        The above bits were really helpful in helping me set the tone that was used, as well as them offering their justification - after all, it's rare that you go to negotiate the cost on something, only to be told the price is 'I get to help you'. I've almost taken them down the road of the super religious - helping is it's own reward and our God will reward us for helping you - although i'll admit that it's a bit creepier than that, and the offers of help span a big range (Money. help for touchstones, influence, getting art exhibited, murdering rivals etc).

                        Whilst i've used the Followers in storied before, this time i'm really pulling on them to be a big lynchpin on the story, as such i really want them to be believable and good, slowburn antagonist.

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                        • #13
                          Has anyone else used the Ministry in new stories yet? if so, how are you portraying them now compared to how you would have with the Followers of Set?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
                            Has anyone else used the Ministry in new stories yet? if so, how are you portraying them now compared to how you would have with the Followers of Set?
                            You can check out the LAbN Videos by Geek and Sundry. I saw all of them on Project Alpha already and there's an episode coming up with a Setite and the game is Anarch so it's relevant to that setting too


                            "The only consistent wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" ~ Socrates

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by chipotlechris View Post
                              Whilst i've used the Followers in storied before, this time i'm really pulling on them to be a big lynchpin on the story, as such i really want them to be believable and good, slowburn antagonist.
                              Do you have it planned / decided that they will end up being antagonists to the PCs ? Can it end up being otherwise ?

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