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Paths/Roads - Homebrew and House Rule Thread

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  • Paths/Roads - Homebrew and House Rule Thread

    Hi, folks.

    I've always been a fan of the alternate Moralities of Vampire. From the Paths of the Sabbat and Independent Clans to the Roads of the Dark Medieval , the shifts in perspective and philosophy have always caught my imagination. Over the years, I picked up every book that had so much as a whiff of new Paths and Roads, and more interestingly, I've gotten to see glimpses ofnew or altered ones at the tables of others. Stuff like that always interests me.

    This thread is for exactly that stuff: tweaks, rewrites, and even new Paths or Roads. Maybe you just want to change the fluff of a certain Path, but never had a place to put something like that. That place is here.

    To start off, I have a writeup for the seldom-used Righteous Path of Night. I always liked the idea. The Path is very close to the Road of Night and its "fearful angel" aesthetic. Not only that, it's the only branch of the main Path that fully allows "aiding others" and cooperation, just so long as those others happen to believe they're vampires damned by God. So, unlike, say, The Allied Path of Night, you aren't limited to dealing with other Lasombra/Abyss Mystics. Followers of the Righteous Path get to fraternize (in their own mission-oriented way) with followers of Path of Caine, Cathari, Redemption and even Death and The Soul. It's easily the most functional, thematically, of the Night paths. It also doesn't have a full writeup. Anywhere. Just a few guidelines tucked into one paragraph of the Revised Clanbook: Lasombra.

    So, I fixed that:

    Righteous Path of Night

    Hierarchy of Sins

    Rating / Sin / Rationale

    10) Killing a mortal only for food. - The dead lose the chance for Salvation through fear and suffering.

    9) Acting in the interests of another. - There is no time to waste on petty matters.

    8) Failing to be innovative in one’s depredations - Familiarity with one’s vile acts breeds contempt for them in others; one must strive to strike fear in the flock..

    7) Asking aid of another. - Those who cannot provide for themselves are poor devils indeed.

    6) Killing in a manner that does not strike fear in mortals. - God has made vampires horrors to show what lies ahead for the unrepentant.

    5) Bowing to an unbelieving Cainite’s will. - The games of the Jyhad are diversions from the Damned’s true purpose.

    4) Impassioned killing. - Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

    3) Aiding another without a greater purpose. - Compassion has no place in a cold, Cainite heart.

    2) Accepting another’s claim to superiority. - All Cainites are equal under God’s plan.

    1) Repenting one’s behavior. - A vampire’s purpose is to encourage repentance, not to practice it.

    So, that's one from me. I'm curious to see what others might have to share.
    Last edited by AzraelFirestorm; 12-05-2018, 07:29 PM.

    “Nobody is purely good or purely evil. Most of us are in-between. There are moths that explore the day and butterflies that play at night.”
    - Suzy Kassem, Rise Up and Salute The Sun

  • #2
    I like it , the path of the night is one of my own favourites and I loved it even more after reading about the lancea et sanctum some years ago.

    Now to contribute what I am gonna post is about the path of humanity and how it works

    The Path of Humanity or the standard in masquerade in flawed becuase it doesnt represent humanity but uses the morality of Abrahamic religions and the destruction of the egoist desires (Humanity 10 makes you Budah) as a moral compass.This is something insteresting but as a separate path or as a convictions something that even when I in alll my dislike for V5 recononize is a good idea (another thing is that touchstones shouldn¨t be mandatory)

    One thing that Requiem 2ED did very very well was instead of making the humanity system depend on morality it make the degeneration process be about detachment , the first 10-7 make you degenerate when you use your powers , or remembers that you are no longer human , the more time that it passes the character refuses to care and eventually he doesnt care becuase he is the beast.

    The levels 6-3 and the levels punish the players for killing without remorse but make it very circunstancial becuase there you dont roll your conscience to see if you degenerate or not , what you roll is a number of dice according to the level of the sin , the most grieveus , inhuman acts or very long periods of isolation , may give you only one chance die to not degenerate.But and this is very important if your character cares you will have touchstones that dice to your degeneration rolls making the degen less likely and you can pick a bane up to threee times to not degenerate and gain inmunity against degeneration for an specific act becuase you are degenerating spiritually instead of in the mental sense.

    This is FUCKING BRILLIANT and it doesnt stop there for example acting in self defence gives you an extra life becuase figthing to survive is something very human


    Requiem 2ED humanity system is the best ever existed but it is not perfect.Here is a proposition of an alternate design system for all paths bringing the next ideas that i think were ignored
    1. The dice pool to resist degeneration is composed by willpower not everyone has the same mental resilence and determination and this is a factor that should be very important in keeping the beast in check.
    2. Each level of sins has a number of success needed to be archived to not degenerate
    3. You don´t have to roll degeneration for the sins of a higher level of humanity than what you have.You have already degenerated over that.
    4. Each touchstone adds one die to resist the degeneration
    5. Each Convictions adds one die to resist the degeneration if you act according to it , acting against substracts one die.Breaking a conviction is a humanity 1 sin as they act as the paths.
    6. The Max number of convictions and touchstones you can have is 3 in total.
    7. You can pick one extra bane (up to three to not degenerate for one act in especific)
    Humanity Succeses nedeed to not degenerate
    10-9 1
    8-7 2
    6-5 3
    4-3 4
    2 5
    1 8

    THE NEW PATH OF HUMANITAS - Hierachy of Sins
    10) Expending more than 1 vitae x night , one night without human contact
    9) Using a discipline , or devoloping one , one year as a vampire.
    8) Entering in a Frenzy , being rejected by a human
    7) Feeding from a human , using a discipline agaisnt a human , surviving something that would hospitalize a human being
    6) Private a human of consentment with a discipline , injuring someone for blood , physical assault over somebody.
    5) Increasing your blood potency /surviving 75 years as a vampire , losing a loved one , taking the will of another being with a discipline , Homicide (Involuntary killing) , creating a ghoul
    4) Premeditated Assasination , 1 Month wihout human contact.
    3) Creating a full blood bond , Dealing with slaves , 1 year without human contact , entering in torpor.
    2) Embracing , One decade without human contact.
    1) Diablerie , henius , mass murder , rape , killing your touchstone , one century without human contact

    Hunger pool


    • #3
      I've been thinking about this for the past few weeks. I like some of V5's Humanity system, but don't want to port it fully into V20. I'm hoping to simplify the system, while retaining some of the flexibility of V5. This is my current rough draft.


      Vampires devolve over time, eventually turning into mindless, inhuman monsters. This process is tracked using Humanity, which measures how emotionally stable, moral, and human seeming a vampire is.
      • Humanity is a tracker stat, with both permanent and temporary values, mechanically similar to willpower, rated from 1-10.
      • The permanent value is read the same as the chart in V20, p311.
      • Book standard characters start at Humanity 5, which may be bought up at the cost of 1 Freebie per dot.
      • There are no Virtues (Conscience, Self-Control, Courage). Where V20 calls for Virtue rolls, roll permanent Humanity, instead. Same for difficulties.
      • All dice pools used to appear human, or maintain the Masquerade, are capped by Humanity, as the vampire grows more alien.
      • All dice pools during the day are capped by Humanity.
      • Vampires with Humanity 8 or higher and a full temporary track benefit from the Blush of Health merit, V20 p480.
      • Vampires with Humanity 4 or lower suffer from the Eerie Presence flaw, V20 p495.
      • Vampires with Humanity 0 enter Wassail and become npcs.
      • Humanity can be raised with CRx3 experience points, if temporary Humanity is full and the character shows contrition.
      • If temporary Humanity reaches zero, reduce permanent Humanity by 1, and refill the temporary track.

      PC actions lower temporary Humanity.

      At the end of each session, the ST reviews the pc's actions and decides whether to remove any temporary Humanity.

      Humanity is lost for acts which are Illegal, Immoral, or Inhuman. One point of temporary Humanity is lost for each category satisfied, so a single act which is Illegal, Immoral, and Inhuman (or a series of unrelated acts that jointly satisfy all three) might reduce temporary Humanity by 3 points.

      Storytellers may wish to only penalize a pc for first-time, minor offenses; repetition may inure one to the horror of one's actions. On the other hand, growing callous is the point of degeneration, so the ST may occasionally penalize pcs for repeated actions when they are particularly horrific or have reached a new depth of blase acceptance.

      Committing multiple sins in one category ordinarily do not remove multiple points. (eg a pc who cheats on his wife and loudly interrupts a public worship service to mock the officiating priest only loses one point for immoral acts for that session) In rare instances, an ST may choose to remove more temporary Humanity for especially malevolent behavior during a session. Murdering one person in a drug deal gone bad is certainly a no-no, but bombing an orphanage for the express purpose of killing a hundred children calls for greater degeneration.

      Illegal Acts:
      As the vampire comes to believe rules and laws don't apply to them, their behavior becomes less constrained by norms, and further infractions seem more reasonable.

      Remove 1 temporary Humanity if the pc committed any felonious acts, as defined by either the local mortal community, or the laws of the pc's place of origin. At ST's discretion, this should be waived for minor crimes, such as traffic offenses or excessive noise. This may also be waived for victimless crimes, such as narcotics or prostitution. These all may be included, however, if they were especially egregious. Major crimes might be pardoned with extenuating circumstances, such as self-defense or necessity.

      examples: Killing a vessel, Stealing drugs from a hospital, Vandalizing an art gallery, Scamming a poverty-stricken stranger out of money, Stealing evidence from a crime scene

      Immoral Acts:
      As the vampire comes to believe standards of morality don't apply to them, their judgment of simple right and wrong becomes impaired, sliding into wanton debauchery.

      Remove 1 temporary Humanity if the pc committed any immoral acts, as defined either by the mortal community the pc most often interacts with, or beliefs from the pc's breathing days. This can include shirking religious duties previously followed, cheating for personal gain, or acts that would cause scandal in the community. At the ST's discretion, this should be waived for minor sins, such as impure thoughts, not actively aiding the poor, or flirting with a stranger while in a monogamous relationship. Such transgressions may be included if they cause scandal or direct harm to others. They may also be penalized if they violate a vampire's beliefs from their human life, such as an embraced recovering alcoholic feeding from a drunk.

      examples: Manipulating a mortal into the clutches of a human trafficker, Insulting someone on their deathbed, Accepting joint ownership of a club specifically designed to encourage debauchery, Convincing members of a family at a reunion to fight and bicker among themselves

      Inhuman Acts:
      As the vampire demonstrates they no longer consider themselves the same species as those around them, it becomes harder to emulate humans, or even feel more empathy for humans than a meat-eater feels for a cow.

      Remove 1 temporary Humanity if the pc achieved goals in a manner impossible to a normal human, placed themselves in a situation so supernatural as to be unlikely for a normal human, or took actions no normal human would take. At the ST's discretion, this should be waived for minor or reflexive actions which parallel human traits, such as healing damage, sleeping at unusual times, or hooking up with a stranger for selfish reasons. It may also be waived for simply using vampiric disciplines. Such inhuman acts may be penalized if they have an overtly vampiric component, such as gory blood play or laughing off damage which would clearly kill a human. Temporary Humanity may also be removed if the vampire intentionally, for no good reason, reveals their nature to a human in a flagrant manner.

      Note that embracing a mortal or creating a ghoul is presumed to be a violation in this category.

      examples: Feeding blood to a random stranger to heal grievous injuries, Strolling casually through a hail of gunfire, Remaining underwater for periods far surpassing the capacity of a human, Destroying dozens of zombies to retrieve an artifact from a catacomb, Wielding a severed arm as a weapon, Meeting your great-granddaughter who looks older than you

      PC actions can also raise temporary Humanity.

      Players may purchase Balms for their pc at chagen. A Balm is a background trait which represents a person, place, activity, or spiritual practice which helps remind the pc to behave in a legal, moral and humane manner.

      If a pc spends a session primarily motivated by their devotion to the Balm at no personal gain to themselves, or spends the full session interacting with the Balm, the player may roll the Balm's rating at the end of the session to regain temporary Humanity equal to the number of successes, at difficulty 6. (A botch reduces the Balm rating by 1.)

      A Balm's rating may be increased at the cost of CRx1, with an in-game rationale for why the pc is more devoted to the Balm. If the object of the Balm is destroyed or made inappropriate as an exemplar (eg: an innocent child grows up to be a bank robber, the Balm dies, or a treasured location burns to the ground), the Balm is lost. Failing to interact with a Balm on a regular basis can result in the ST reducing the value of the trait, though the player should be warned well ahead of such action being taken.

      New Balms can be gained through the course of play at Storyteller's discretion, but no vampire can have more dots in Balm than their Humanity rating.

      Storytellers should be ruthless in reducing temporary Humanity for a pc's mistreatment or exploitation of their Balms.

      Examples of Balms: A teacher from the pc's alma mater who often advised them in personal matters, The home where the pc grew up, Volunteering at a homeless shelter, Observing the rituals, sabbaths, and holy days of the pc's religion, The pc's mortal family, A fledgling the pc works to protect and mentor

      Related Merits and Flaws

      Supernatural Exclusion (1pt merit) The pc realizes that fully supernatural creatures, such as vampires and werewolves, are not human and, therefore, behavior against them which would remove temporary Humanity does not count. Not available to characters of Humanity above 8, or in regards to vampires the pc themselves create.

      Improved Supernatural Exclusion (2pt merit) The pc realizes that supernatural creatures, such as vampires and werewolves, as well as partially supernatural creatures, such as ghouls, are not human and, therefore, behavior against them which would remove temporary Humanity does not count. Not available to characters of Humanity above 6, or in regards to ghouls and vampires the pc themselves create.

      Feeding Exclusion (1pt merit) Under the theory that one must "live by the law, not die by the law", actions directly related to feeding are excluded from removing temporary Humanity. The feeding must be performed, however, in the least immoral manner practical. This exclusion should be interpreted narrowly. Breaking into a home to feed on sleeping humans is still counted as breaking and entering, it's just the feeding itself which is not penalized. Not available to characters of Humanity above 8.

      Durable Balm (3pt merit) One of the pc's Balms is unusually difficult to lose, or is easily replaced. The ST should only remove the Balm rating in the most extreme circumstances.

      Rationalized Justification(1-5pt merit) The character has a very specific crime which they have come to accept as normal and reasonable, or morally justified, while understanding it is arguably wrong. The crime the player chooses does not thereafter count as a transgression. The value of this merit depends on how serious of a crime it justifies and how broad the reasoning is. examples: Killing convicted felons, Stealing from the rich, Blackmailing public leaders with sins they committed of their own free will, Killing the very elderly or terminally ill

      Sect Devotee (1pt flaw) The laws of the character's sect and the rulings of that sect's leaders act as an additional legal code the character must abide by, or lose temporary Humanity.

      Obscure Code (1-5pt flaw) The character has taken an oath of some sort which forbids a behavior which is otherwise allowed, and will be punished accordingly. examples: Former Catholic priest refuses to feed directly from a vessel so as not to trigger the pleasure of the Kiss, Devoted communist who rejects the trappings of wealth, Amish vampire who eschews technology, Superstitious vampire who avoids "bad luck" situations like broken mirrors and walking under ladders, Honesty obsessed vampire who refuses to directly lie for any reason
      Last edited by Nosimplehiway; 12-09-2018, 01:11 PM.


      • #4
        I keep Revised Path of Paradox/Mayaparisattya

        Because the whole point of it was they understood vampirism brought them out of balance with the Universe and they sought Harmony much like the ideals of the Path of Blood. I hated how V20 didn’t get that and made it just another Jerkass vampires are okay Path.

        I’m interested in nonTzimisce on the Path of Metamorphosis, like I can see Nosferatu and Gangrel on that path, or Transhumanist Malkavians.

        I’m interested in making the Laibon morality compatible with the rest of the game, like I’m still fine with the twofold duality for a system but just make it at least exist in a way to show us how say that Gangrel Character in the intro fiction switched over to become a Laibon. And maybe a way to show us how say maybe Montano switched from it to a Road.

        It is a time for great deeds!


        • #5
          Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
          I’m interested in making the Laibon morality compatible with the rest of the game (...) And maybe a way to show us how say maybe Montano switched from it to a Road.
          Is it written anywhere that Montano was ( or is ) a Laibon, or had any similarity to them ? As far as I remember, he left and travelled with [ Lasombra ] after being Embraced ; so I think he didn't follow their morality and didn't have any similar traits.
          Last edited by Muad'Dib; 12-16-2018, 04:23 PM.


          • #6
            He was embraced upon the Continent and Raised there, in the Laibon rules theirs is the natural morality you develop on the Veldt and the Plains. Though it sounds like he may be older then the known Laibon History, and he very clearly seems to be high Path of Honorable Accord/Whatever Road it evolved in from the Road of Kings.

            It is a time for great deeds!


            • #7
              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
              He was embraced upon the Continent and Raised there, in the Laibon rules theirs is the natural morality you develop on the Veldt and the Plains.
              Even assuming that this is the case, I don't think it happened with Montano. He travelled with [ Lasombra ] and attended to the matters of Clan Lasombra ; so I think he would be an exception in regard to this.


              • #8
                I don’t think ancient first generation Lasombra is the same as “Modern” (as in the last two thousand years) Lasombra. In fact for all we know Lasombra itself could have used the Laibon system and Montano was an experiment in divergence by making an Honorable Accord style morality for Montano. And we know Montano isn’t his original name, and I’d wager it’s his modern name, as in the name he uses for the last one or two millennia. He was probably something like Montaneus before Mantano.

                It is a time for great deeds!


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                  In fact for all we know Lasombra itself could have used the Laibon system and Montano was an experiment in divergence by making an Honorable Accord style morality for Montano.
                  I think there aren't any indications of [ Lasombra ] following the Laibon morality ?
                  In regard [ Lasombra ] 's intentions in the situation that led to Montano's Embrace - it is stated that [ Lasombra ] was surprised by the outcome and considered himself unable to repeat such a situation or instill in another loyalty as strong as Montano's ; as it was all reliant on Montano's honor and him keeping his word.

                  Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                  And we know Montano isn’t his original name (...)
                  His previous name is Ontai ( meaning Enduring in the language that the tribe used ) , it is in his description in the "Who's Who Among Vampires" book.
                  Last edited by Muad'Dib; 12-18-2018, 01:41 PM.


                  • #10
                    I forgot they gave us his old name. I read that book ages ago, I was just surprised I liked it so much for a first ed book.

                    It is a time for great deeds!


                    • #11
                      I really like the illustrations in this book. Around half of them rank up among my favorite World of Darkness illustrations. The poses and faces ( where they look and how ) of these Vampires are splendid. The surroundings/backgrounds of the illustrations are excellent - they are very indicative, and set a tone for each of the pictures ; yet aren't definitive in any way that would draw away focus from the Vampires. The surroundings enhance the appearances of the Vampires distinctly and nicely.
                      Last edited by Muad'Dib; 12-19-2018, 08:02 PM.