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  • Drowned Legacies

    The Drowned Legacies are the half-cryptid vampires rumored to have once inhabited South America. Similar to the Laibon of Africa, they are believed by some to be bloodlines or variants, while others see in them a phenomenon similar to the Kuei-jin of East Asia. They are featured in BJD.


    What are your thoughts on the Drowned Legacies?


    Why not have some of them appear in Central America and North America?



  • #2
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
    The Drowned Legacies are the half-cryptid vampires rumored to have once inhabited South America. Similar to the Laibon of Africa, they are believed by some to be bloodlines or variants, while others see in them a phenomenon similar to the Kuei-jin of East Asia. They are featured in BJD.


    What are your thoughts on the Drowned Legacies?


    Why not have some of them appear in Central America and North America?

    They are in CBN

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Lian View Post

      They are in CBN
      I have no idea what that means/stands for.


      Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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      • #4
        Originally posted by FallenEco View Post

        I have no idea what that means/stands for.
        Chicago by Night


        Matthew Dawkins
        In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


        Website: http://www.matthewdawkins.com
        Patreon: http://https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

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        • #5
          I'm curious to see how the Drowned Legacies turn out - the Example in CbN is very interesting, but in fairness is quite open to interpretation right now - most likely as there aren't rules or a core book for them and as such they can't give masses of detail.

          i don't know if i want them to be similar to the Laibon, with a direct if occluded connection to the Clans, or the KotE and a whole new breed of Beasties. One thing is for sure, there is enough similarity for them to pass as Kindred if the CbN example is anything to go by.

          One thing i quite like is how we're starting to see Vampire races somehow align against the various Wraith Kingdoms. In the same way that you need a different style of Necromancy to control Wraiths from different parts of the 'world', it seems the differences in Soul matter spit out different forms of Blood sucker! In the Abrahamic regions (Kingdom of Iron) where there is one, all powerful God/Creator, we've got Caine - a singular (with the second generation somewhat acting as the Holy trinity), all powerful Creator. In the Asian territories (Kingdom of Jade) where there is more focus on Karma, Dhama, Rebirth and a Pantheon of Gods, we've got Self creating Vampires with a closer connection to the spirit world, but also a greater divide in their souls (Hun and Po). With the Laibon (Kingdom of Ivory), it feels like Western Religion has influenced and encroached on it, but local customs have reshaped it into something unique with again, a greater focus on Duality and the parts of the soul - but more in harmony that the KotE - it makes for an interesting dynamic as well as a critique on Colonialism.Interestingly if this is the case, then the Ministry/Setites could be onto something by saying that Set isn't a Cainite, as he could be the Vampire from the Kingdom of Sand - somehow kept all that potential for himself, but also merged it with the more mainstream Cainites. Saulot is also an interesting example of what happens when one type of vampire tries to emulate the soul makeup of another - we get his split soul and the creation of his many bloodlines...

          i'm hopeful that the Drowned legacy takes on the perspective of the Kingdom of Obsidian and whatever form that might take. it could again take elements of Cainite blood due to Western Colonialism, but perhaps due to the lakes of blood spilled by the ancient cultures, it has diluted to the point where they're unrecognizable and similar to thin bloods, but with time and spiritual power the blood has thickened back up again to make them something totally different.
          Last edited by chipotlechris; 12-10-2018, 06:44 AM.

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          • #6
            I thought time ago in a "Kindred of the Esmerald Kingdom" with diverse variations of the clans of the Old World. The Gangrel, Nosferatu and Tlacique would be the principal bloodlines in the precolombine cultures, and I though in a bloodline Brujah created by Menele in the Inca Empire.

            Now, I'm awaiting more information. I hope there's not bizarre bloodlines, and a cultural adaptation of the american vampires similar to the Old World.

            Comment


            • #7
              In my head-canon and in things I am using for my game, the Drowned Legacies are a mix. I have the Tlacique as a full populated legacy, and there are some others that will have a decent population base, but there are others that are singular, or of a singular embrace lineage. One of the characters in my Tucson game is descended along one such lineage, and he doesn't even know that. As far as he and the rest of the world are concerned, he is a Nosferatu.

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              • #8
                Here is some research about the names used for the six known Drowned Legacies;

                Cipactli; 'Crocodile' was the first day of the Aztec divinatory count of 13 X 20 days. So, Nahuatl vampires in Mexico.

                Karai Pyrahe; I can’t find any etymological origins for the word. But Google search suggested Karai Perak (which is a town in Malaysia), and Kare Praha (which is apparently a heavy equipment company near Prague).

                Kalku; Kalku in Mapuche (Mapuches are a group of indigenous inhabitants of south-central Chile and southwestern Argentina, including parts of present-day Patagonia.) mythology, is a sorcerer or witch who works with black magic and negative powers or forces. So, Mapuche vampires in Chile, and Argentina.

                Lostundo; I can’t find any etymological origins for the word.

                Titlacauan; Another Aztec diety, one associated with a wide range of concepts, including the night sky, the night winds, hurricanes, the north, the earth, obsidian, enmity, discord, rulership, divination, temptation, jaguars, sorcery, beauty, war and strife. So, another group of Nahuatl vampires in Mexico.

                Unhudo; According to folklore, the Unhudo is a kind of undead with clothes in bad condition, who has big nails and wears a straw hat. Their goal is to haunt anyone who dares steal fruit, flowers or do any harm to the forest. These legends come from São Paulo, Brazil. So, Brazilian vampires who are possibly connected to the native Tupi people.

                So, where do the terms “Lostundo” and “Karai Pyrahe” come from?

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                • #9
                  Los Tundo I think can mean the Prickers, which could fit with some ritual magic as many Nuhuallotl Magic’s involve shedding blood through pricking with a cactus needle. It can also mean I think the turners or the shearers, but I would go with the Prickers, or let’s shorten that to the pricks.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #10
                    Karai Pyhare is in guaraní, a language spoken in Paraguay, where I'm from. It should actually be written as Kara'í Pyhare, with accent on the last syllable in both words. Kara'í means mr. or lord, and pyhare means nighttime. So together it means lord of the night.

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                    • #11
                      The research into the names is interesting, and whilst i'm sure it isn't even anything remotely like this, it's fun to speculate and we're all geeks here! so with that in mind - potential bloodlines based on this?

                      Cipactli; 'Crocodile' was the first day of the Aztec divinatory count of 13 X 20 days. So, Nahuatl vampires in Mexico.
                      *So, with a reptile association could be a Setite Relation? although we've already got the Tlalique so not sure we need another

                      Karai Pyhare is in guaraní, a language spoken in Paraguay, where I'm from. It should actually be written as Kara'í Pyhare, with accent on the last syllable in both words. Kara'í means mr. or lord, and pyhare means nighttime. So together it means lord of the night.
                      *Lords of the Night? Sounds like a shoe in for the Lasombra, but also Ventrue could work and lord knows we don't see many bloodlines come out from them.

                      Kalku; Kalku in Mapuche (Mapuches are a group of indigenous inhabitants of south-central Chile and southwestern Argentina, including parts of present-day Patagonia.) mythology, is a sorcerer or witch who works with black magic and negative powers or forces. So, Mapuche vampires in Chile, and Argentina.
                      *Sorceror? Well, that'll be the Banu Haqim then

                      Los Tundo I think can mean the Prickers, which could fit with some ritual magic as many Nuhuallotl Magic’s involve shedding blood through pricking with a cactus needle
                      *Not sure on this one. so many Clans fit the definition of Pricks! too much choice, but at least we can exclude the Tremere who would otherwise be the obvious choice due to their age

                      Titlacauan; Another Aztec diety, one associated with a wide range of concepts, including the night sky, the night winds, hurricanes, the north, the earth, obsidian, enmity, discord, rulership, divination, temptation, jaguars, sorcery, beauty, war and strife. So, another group of Nahuatl vampires in Mexico.*
                      *Something here makes me feel Tzimisce, perhaps the natural connection, but perhaps the word 'Strife'

                      Unhudo; According to folklore, the Unhudo is a kind of undead with clothes in bad condition, who has big nails and wears a straw hat. Their goal is to haunt anyone who dares steal fruit, flowers or do any harm to the forest. These legends come from São Paulo, Brazil. So, Brazilian vampires who are possibly connected to the native Tupi people.
                      *Well, we know the Toreador love flowers and i can see how a certain number or them could rock the right hat and nails combo! However, i'm leaning Gangrel for this.

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                      • #12
                        I'm enjoying this discussion. To confirm: the names weren't chosen at random, and experts on history and mythology from Central and South America were consulted.


                        Matthew Dawkins
                        In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


                        Website: http://www.matthewdawkins.com
                        Patreon: http://https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

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                        • #13
                          If I remember my folklore correctly, Karai pyhare is a name for the pombero, a small, impish hairy man that could do everything the legacy can. And yes, a common practice for out-of-wedlock pregnancies was claiming he did it.
                          He also loved alcohol and cigars, so basically a hairier baron samedi. I'd personally peg them as gangrel, nos or maybe ravnos.

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                          • #14
                            I just want some pishtacos.


                            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                            • #15
                              I think the Drowned Legacies are more interesting when they have no easy connection to the known clans. So making the Cipactli just a Settite bloodline would be dull. But I can see using the known disciplines for the sake of mechanical simplicity.

                              Originally posted by El Barto View Post
                              Karai Pyhare is in guaraní, a language spoken in Paraguay, where I'm from. It should actually be written as Kara'í Pyhare, with accent on the last syllable in both words. Kara'í means mr. or lord, and pyhare means nighttime. So together it means lord of the night.
                              Cool. That for posting this message.


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