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Modiphius taking over Vampire: The Masquerade

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  • Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post

    I am going to echo what others a bit further up-thread have already said: the game was literally cancelled with zero support for many years, and it came back--and came back strong. The worst I realistically expect could happen to the franchise is that, at some point or another, it fails to make new fans because it's horribly mismanaged, and you end up with a game played nigh exclusively by people born in the 20th century.
    There are already people, who came in during the V20 era and people who got introduced to it by Revised, but quite a bit after its ending. Some other people like to act and say that because V20 was a nostalgia product (and it was, at the beginning), it's only just old die-hards buying and playing it. No.


    Here's my deal: After I understood the basic direction they were taking the line(s) (not just the rules, but with the setting, the tone, the focus--everything), I quickly understood that I was about as uninterested in the franchise as possible. At least when Chronicles of Darkness came out (formerly nWoD), I was peeved that the game I loved had been axed, but I was still curious, because the guts of the game/system seemed pretty intact. With V5, I'm not even mildly/academically curious. BUT, I'm going to keep buying Classic WOD (i.e., Onyx Path) products like it's 1999. I suspect I'm not alone--certainly some people who share my love for the old stuff may have varying degrees of interest about V5 and what it's trying to do, but at the very least I'm confident the community that loves and plays the classic game(s) will persist.
    Same there. After the corebook's release, I got nearly totally disinterested in it, aside from using some of the fluff. I'm mildly curious what Modiphius will do, in the future, though.

    That I'm talking about it a lot is actually due to the fact that I'm actively disappointed it got me this disinterested.


    Having said that, I'm surprised by the seemingly backlash and flack V5 has engendered. I guess when I saw the direction the game as taking (and after seeing some interactions between the people working on the game and fans/consumers at a couple of cons) I thought, 'whelp, this is is just what this is now'.
    That's the sensible thing to do, but since when fans are sensible people?
    Last edited by PMárk; 01-14-2019, 04:31 PM.


    If nothing worked, then let's think!

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    • Originally posted by Cielle View Post

      The worst I realistically expect is that this edition-war backlash to V5 scares people off from doing anything novel with the license. Nothing grows, nothing changes, just the same exact people, setting, conflicts, and overall plot events as in the late 90s (with a couple minor rules tweaks anytime a "new edition" is released). Stasis is boring. I have one copy of V20 already, and I don't need another book with the same material.

      I want to see new developments, and I don't think people are willing to let that actually happen.
      Well, I guess you'd say nothing changed in Shadowrun either, for example, over the years... Except it did, just the core of the setting, the biggest strokes remained and that is good. It still feeld like Shadowrun, despite all the changes.

      You don't need to change the lookout of the whole game and setting, to have new things, changed status quo, new story, etc. You don't have to always go for radical revolution. You can introduce new things and change the setting over time, in smaller increments. You can even go for bigger changes, but avoiding altering the core feel of the seting and the game as per the rules themselves. The concept of Hunger and touchstones could have been introduced without this much rewriting of the rules. That's not stasis, that's preserving what people liked, instead of gambling just on the "new developments". V20 itself wasn't stasis either, after the core book, it added a lot of new things Red List, anarchs Unbound, Guide to the TMR, BJD. Or take M20. New metaplot, new faction, new system for paradigm. I wouldn't call all of that "same old, same old" and those were widely accpeted, even if parts of them kindled arguments.

      If you want something truly "novel", please be my guest and write a new game, I promise I'll take a honest and open look at it!

      Maybe, these "legacy" games, or call them what you like, are boring for you. Many people disagree. For myself, I like to see the games I like improve, getting new stuff, better rules, new story, but I want to play, at the core, the same games I've fallen in love. If I want to play a new and different game, I seek and try out a new and different game, not expecting, or even wanting, the old games to change radically. I like them because they are the way they are. Again, that doesn1t mean no changes at all.

      If I want to play CoC, I want to play effing CoC. If I want a different, new take on the whole Lovecraftian-investigating-horor stuff, there are tons of other games out there, like Trails. But, I play CoC, because I want that style, those rules, that take on the mythos and setting. I still want the rules to improve, with new editions, just within their own boundaries, to some extent. I still want material, not published before, to be written.
      Last edited by PMárk; 01-14-2019, 04:39 PM.


      If nothing worked, then let's think!

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      • Originally posted by Trippy View Post

        Why would it?
        It already happened once. Before this, doubting would be understandable. Now that it has been shown that the World of Darkness can come back, I myself have no worries about WoD's future.
        On a more serious note, I think that the setting is so interesting, varied, deep, and intricate that, if it is abandoned at any point, another group / company will take it upon themselves to develop WoD ( or part of it ) , sooner or later. Also, I think it is possible that by this point just the fans could keep WoD from being forgotten as a game and as a setting.

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        • Originally posted by PMárk View Post
          There are already people, who came in during the V20 era and people who got introduced to it by Revised, but quite a bit after its ending. Some other people like to act and say that because V20 was a nostalgia product (and it was, at the beginning), it's only just old die-hards buying and playing it. No.
          Agreed. I came into the World of Darkness far later, when V20 was still in full swing. Not only did I like new stuff they'd been putting out, but also all the old stuff. The game didn't need to change that much to pull me in. And V20 didn't need to completely reinvent Vampire: The Masquerade in order to appeal. It just needed to be the most polished version of itself it could be.


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          • Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
            Agreed. I came into the World of Darkness far later, when V20 was still in full swing. Not only did I like new stuff they'd been putting out, but also all the old stuff. The game didn't need to change that much to pull me in. And V20 didn't need to completely reinvent Vampire: The Masquerade in order to appeal. It just needed to be the most polished version of itself it could be.
            It was a really splendid move to return to the ( classic / old ) World of Darkness with the anniversary editions. Even the editions' names - [game name]20 - are a wonderful and attention catching reference to the fact that WoD can continue as a game and as a setting.

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            • Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post

              Here's my deal: After I understood the basic direction they were taking the line(s) (not just the rules, but with the setting, the tone, the focus--everything), I quickly understood that I was about as uninterested in the franchise as possible. At least when Chronicles of Darkness came out (formerly nWoD), I was peeved that the game I loved had been axed, but I was still curious, because the guts of the game/system seemed pretty intact. With V5, I'm not even mildly/academically curious. BUT, I'm going to keep buying Classic WOD (i.e., Onyx Path) products like it's 1999. I suspect I'm not alone--certainly some people who share my love for the old stuff may have varying degrees of interest about V5 and what it's trying to do, but at the very least I'm confident the community that loves and plays the classic game(s) will persist.
              This sums up my thoughts on V5 completely.

              Comment


              • Personally, I'd love it if V5 was just cancelled and we got a VTM 6E that declares V5 non-canon (and most of Revised, while we're at it)

                V5 and its god-awful metaplot changes has done nothing but damage the Vampire franchise after V20 had finally restored the game to full glory.

                After the whole Chechnya fiasco and the demise of White Wolf, it was time to go back to the drawing board.

                Honestly, whomever develops a new edition of Masquerade needs to read the 1E and 2E VTM books and study them, so they can get a feel for what made Vampire great back in its heyday.

                That being said, I hope Modiphius can make the best of a bad situation and keep the Vampire franchise going.
                Last edited by Camilla; 01-17-2019, 09:09 AM.

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                • Originally posted by Camilla View Post
                  Personally, I'd love it if V5 was just cancelled and we got a VTM 6E that declares V5 non-canon (and most of Revised, while we're at it)

                  V5 and its god-awful metaplot changes has done nothing but damage the Vampire franchise after V20 had finally restored the game to full glory.

                  After the whole Chechnya fiasco and the demise of White Wolf, it was time to go back to the drawing board.

                  Honestly, whomever develops a new edition of Masquerade needs to read the 1E and 2E VTM books and study them, so they can get a feel for what made Vampire great back in its heyday.

                  That being said, I hope Modiphius can make the best of a bad situation and keep the Vampire franchise going.
                  I couldn’t disagree more.

                  Trashing everything is not a good idea especially trashing parts of revised

                  I think they read a lot of 1st and second since much of the changes were direct continuations of plots that started in those editions and continued through revised and into V5 look at the timeline I did to see a lot of the second inquisition plots and where they came from.

                  They did their homework. I am continuing to put more timelines together and look forward to seeing the roots of other plot lines that were continuations of previous edition plot lines.

                  As far as their hay day all I can say is I loved first and second and continued to play them up until V5 and the world and RPG customers have changed a lot since then. Reprinting older editions is not necessary. We live in a digital age. You can just continue to play previous editions it is not that hard to do. Same goes for changing the plots to suit your game it is not that hard to make your own plot without needing to change or trash V5. Everyone can play the game they want to and we are getting even more options to do so in the players guide this fall.

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                  • I do play previous editions, mostly V1 and V20.

                    I like my Gangrel in the Camarilla and my Ravnos still around.

                    Seriously, the Ravnos are one of my favorite clans. Fuck that Week of Nightmares bullshit.

                    Also, I don't like how V5 basically sabotaged nearly twenty-seven years of a great game with just one poorly written supplement. V5 Core was bad enough, but now WW is essentially dead and Modiphius is basically just finishing the projects that were already greenlit before the unfortunate incidents back in November,
                    Last edited by Camilla; 01-17-2019, 01:45 PM.

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                    • I think Camilla is writing the Obituary for V5 and the WoD too soon. I understand the anger and disappointment. This happens when something we have invested time, energy, and emotions into changes outside of our control.

                      I cannot see the Camarilla book torpedoing the whole line. Between Modiphius and OP creating content for V5, it will go on.

                      If you don't like changes they made in the metaplot, ignore them. If you don't like the new rules, don't use them. You should, however, realize that there is a sizable portion of people that like the new direction of the game, and to rain on their enthusiasm is unfair to them.

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                      • I guess what I feel it boils down to is nothing stops you from playing the way you want to play. Don’t like the Gangrel leaving then don’t have them leave. Don’t like week of nightmares then it didn’t happen. None of this is forced on you. Everyone changes things to suit their game. Even in the 1st edition CbN some games had Lodin dead and some didn’t. V5 doesn’t change this. Use what meta you want and leave the rest. Use what rules you want and leave the rest. V5 is full of more options both rules and meta wise. The players guide that is coming will give us even more and nothing has to be redone for people to take what they want and leave the rest.

                        I guess I just don’t see why giving players more choices in their VtM games as a bad thing. It’s your game and the only thing stopping you is you.

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                        • Point taken.

                          I just don't like being told to go "play Some Other Game", that I am "playing the game wrong", or to "grow up" because I don't like the metaplot or supernatural wangst.

                          Anyway, it's my games and I'll run them the way I want to. Fuck the haters.

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                          • If I came across as saying any of those things, I apologize. It was not my intention. And I agree Fuck the haters.

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                            • Same here I was not trying to come across as you are less valid. Your opinions and what you like do matter. I am just happy that we all can play Masquerade the way we want to and I encourage you to do so. I wouldn’t mind a game we’re the week of nightmares didn’t happen.

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                              • Originally posted by SparkeyG View Post
                                If I came across as saying any of those things, I apologize. It was not my intention. And I agree Fuck the haters.

                                Nah, you are fine. I understand what you are saying, I just felt I needed to clarify my point of view.

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