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Are the Ministry and House Carna a game-changer for the Anarchs?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
    Then there’s House Ipsissimus, which is Anarch. They seem to be a collective of Crowleyan individualists who have banded together for mutual aid and protection but aren’t much for people telling them what (not) to do.
    Have we heard anything about Ipsissimus in V5? If not, I'd be careful about treating them as really relevant to the current canon.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Cifer View Post
      Have we heard anything about Ipsissimus in V5? If not, I'd be careful about treating them as really relevant to the current canon.
      They're detailed only in the Anarch book for now.


      Matthew Dawkins
      In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


      Website: http://www.matthewdawkins.com
      Patreon: http://https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post

        They're detailed only in the Anarch book for now.
        Will they receive more development in the future?

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        • #19
          The way the V5 core book is written imply that all houses presented there are part of the Camarilla

          It says flatly that the Tremere houseS are allied with the Camarilla and that Tremeres serve three purposes: Occult expertise for other clans, the Camarilla, Themselves.

          I have no idea where the idea that Carna were Anarch came from especially after as other said she flat out said that her house belong to the Camarilla in the core book. (And then again the Ipsissimus do mention that as well in the Anarch book plus the fact that they are the only anarch House.)

          And while it's not as clear for House Goratrix, it does feels like they also are a Camarilla house because of the strong hints above and also because Carna mentionned her allegiance to the Camarilla after Shreckt mentionned that House Goratrix and House Tremere have more in common with each others than with Carna.

          I doubt he would have said that if Goratrix was still part of the Sabbat plus the Sabbat as far as V5 is concerned for now basically doesn't exist anyway except as boogeymen.
          Last edited by Morbus; 12-22-2018, 02:49 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

            Will they receive more development in the future?
            I strongly suspect so.


            Matthew Dawkins
            In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


            Website: http://www.matthewdawkins.com
            Patreon: http://https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Morbus View Post
              The way the V5 core book is written imply that all houses presented there are part of the Camarilla

              It says flatly that the Tremere houseS are allied with the Camarilla and that Tremeres serve three purposes: Occult expertise for other clans, the Camarilla, Themselves.

              I have no idea where the idea that Carna were Anarch came from especially after as other said she flat out said that her house belong to the Camarilla in the core book. (And then again the Ipsissimus do mention that as well in the Anarch book plus the fact that they are the only anarch House.)

              And while it's not as clear for House Goratrix, it does feels like they also are a Camarilla house because of the strong hints above and also because Carna mentionned her allegiance to the Camarilla after Shreckt mentionned that House Goratrix and House Tremere have more in common with each others than with Carna.

              I doubt he would have said that if Goratrix was still part of the Sabbat plus the Sabbat as far as V5 is concerned for now basically doesn't exist anyway except as boogeymen.
              Goratrix returning to the Camarilla would require quite a bit of explanation. And I think the point Schrekt was making was that it seemed the loyal house has more in common with the Sabbat one than the one that's still nominally Camarilla.

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              • #22
                The association of Carna with the Anarchs has a lot to do with the backstory in BJD, in which Carna and her followers hide out in the free state of LA shortly after breaking their bond to the Pyramid. She was afraid the clan hierarchy would be out to get her for her nonconformity, and the Anarchs seemed a safe bet. There’s also the fact that a nonconformist Tremere would get pegged as an Anarch just because of how tightly controlled the house and clan used to be.

                Now that the Pyramid is broken, Carna can carry on doing her thing without the clan as a whole branding her an apostate. And despite her problems with how the main house was being run, she was still an important Camarilla elder. Her grudge was against the clan hierarchy, not the Traditions.

                Makes sense, even though some of us did initially expect House Carna might be the Anarch house. But now there’s House Ipsissimus, such as it is.

                And I don’t think there’s good reason to believe House Goratrix is *not* Sabbat, as they haven’t been detailed in the context of the Camarilla or the Anarchs, and we’re running out of major sects here. Sure, they could be autarchs, but that’s just another type of Anarch (see again Ipsissimus). Also the bit about recruiting those with “less restrictive morals” is a clue. I imagine what Schrekt was on about was how at least Goratrix’s house was a centuries-old tradition, however sketchy, whereas Carna’s experiment was a novelty, and she was quick to state her allegiance by way of correction.

                Also, just because the Sabbat hasn’t been detailed in V5, that doesn’t mean some foundations aren’t being laid even now. I bet if you look at other V5 material released this farm you’ll see more.
                Last edited by Black Flag; 12-22-2018, 06:54 PM.

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                • #23
                  The Sabbat house has already been wiped out by Tremere a long time ago. Whatever is this new Goratrix house will be different even if they remain in the Sabbat.

                  in the short text in the core, Schrekt says the only reason he doesn't wipe the other two houses is because of "voices" (Tremere ? The Council ?) he heard and Carna confirmed she heard them too and that they said all the houses ways are valids. (Or at least those particular three are)

                  Schreckt clearly accused Carna of being more radical than Goratrix at least in how they embraced. She defended herself by saying that she remains in the Camarilla as a way to say her house is not that radical.

                  This plus the fact that Ipsissmus seems to keep a low profile compared to the other three houses plus what the core says about the allegiance of the houses mentionned there feels like Goratrix is a Camarilla house now. Which is not THAT suprising considering the actual leader of that house.

                  Again could be wrong but nothing for now indicates that Goratrix is in the Sabbat. And since everyone is jumping ship apparently, I don't see how a dead house could not.
                  Last edited by Morbus; 12-22-2018, 07:01 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Well, I'm less interested in House Carna now than how the Anarchs are changing. My big desire now is to see how the Anarchs become an alternate play style than the Camarilla and how their role as a second sect pushes the Camarilla's influence.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
                      And I don’t think there’s good reason to believe House Goratrix is *not* Sabbat, as they haven’t been detailed in the context of the Camarilla or the Anarchs, and we’re running out of major sects here. Sure, they could be autarchs, but that’s just another type of Anarch (see again Ipsissimus).
                      I think that Anarchs are a type of Autarkis ( and not every Autarkis is an Anarch ) , if such a distinction is to be made in regard to the two groups. Though I think that in the end such a distinction is incorrect and uneccesary ; these two groups are, by default, separate in regard to each other.

                      Originally posted by Morbus View Post
                      The Sabbat house has already been wiped out by Tremere a long time ago. Whatever is this new Goratrix house will be different even if they remain in the Sabbat.
                      I really like the Tremere Antitribu / House Goratrix as a group. The regular/main Tremere are already very distinct, dark, mysterious, and ambitious ; a group deemed radicals who broke off from the rest of the Clan really sends me imagination spinning. I think it might have been because of the destruction of them that I started head-canoning World of Darkness. I hope that this is the original House Goratrix, the Tremere Antitribu, in V5.

                      Originally posted by Morbus View Post
                      Schreckt clearly accused Carna of being more radical than Goratrix at least in how they embraced.
                      How do Vampires of House Carna Embrace, that it is deemed radical ? Is it explained how members of House Goratrix are radical in regard to Embracing, or in general ? Also, is there anything on the status of Goratrix himself in V5 ?
                      Last edited by Muad'Dib; 12-23-2018, 12:19 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                        How do Vampires of House Carna Embrace, that it is deemed radical ? Is it explained how members of House Goratrix are radical in regard to Embracing, or in general ?
                        Mostly, they're not quite as tradition-bound as the others. Remember that classic House-and-Clan Tremere prefers people with either a hermetic or scientific worldview, high intelligence and plenty of ambition - who are also ideally male, if memory serves. Carna isn't above bringing in "pagans, witches and chaos magicians", who value magic for its own sake and can bring in more perspectives via diversity. Or as Schrekt calls them "amateur tarot readers, women who dawdle with tea leaves and spiritualists".
                        House Goratrix sticks with the "best of the best" approach of House Tremere, but does not exactly require a set of functioning morals to go with their inductees.
                        Last edited by Cifer; 12-23-2018, 07:28 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cifer View Post
                          Remember that classic House-and-Clan Tremere prefers people with either a hermetic or scientific worldview, high intelligence and plenty of ambition - who are also ideally male, if memory serves.
                          Are you sure about the 'also male' part ? I don't recall reading this in regard to Clan Tremere. There are many Tremere who are women described in the V:tM books.
                          Last edited by Muad'Dib; 12-23-2018, 09:45 AM.

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                          • #28
                            It's been a while since I went through the clanbook, but yes, I do seem to recall that the clan was described as having somewhat of a chauvinistic bent. Not enough to keep women from attaining power completely, but enough that for example the Council of Seven has only one known female founding member and the fully known 1995 Council of Seven has only two women.

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                            • #29
                              I think that in regard to a group that has seven members it is not possible to deduce any trends or conclusions from it's gender ratio. Also, I think that even if there would be any gender bias in the Clan Tremere ( of which I am not aware of ) , then the Council of Seven would definitely be beyond it.
                              Last edited by Muad'Dib; 12-23-2018, 12:04 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                                I think that Anarchs are a type of Autarkis, if such a distinction is to be made in regard to the two groups.
                                The Anarchs have always been the second sect with a loosely defined leadership but are even more so since they have one more clan than the Sabbat themselves.

                                I think the addition of the Ministry with its cult-like practices and charismatic leaders will result in a much firmer, perhaps more Sabbat-like heirarchy.

                                For better or worse.

                                Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                                I think that in regard to a group that has seven members it is not possible to deduce any trends or conclusions from it's gender ratio. Also, I think that even if there would be any gender bias in the Clan Tremere ( of which I am not aware of ) , then the Council of Seven would definitely be beyond it.
                                Carna was specifically made very early in the gameline and her character was as a female serial killer of men (I recommend people check out Milwaukee by Night--she was completely insane) who was Embraced by her lover who did so to make her the "first" female Tremere.

                                Except, later, we met Merlinda.

                                I.e. a 4th generation Tremere who was the 3rd most powerful Tremere after Etrius and Goratrix when the Big Boss was asleep and 2nd after Goratrix defected.
                                Last edited by CTPhipps; 12-23-2018, 12:18 PM.


                                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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