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Are the Ministry and House Carna a game-changer for the Anarchs?

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  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
    And I don’t think there’s good reason to believe House Goratrix is *not* Sabbat, as they haven’t been detailed in the context of the Camarilla or the Anarchs, and we’re running out of major sects here. Sure, they could be autarchs, but that’s just another type of Anarch (see again Ipsissimus).
    I think that Anarchs are a type of Autarkis ( and not every Autarkis is an Anarch ) , if such a distinction is to be made in regard to the two groups. Though I think that in the end such a distinction is incorrect and uneccesary ; these two groups are, by default, separate in regard to each other.

    Originally posted by Morbus View Post
    The Sabbat house has already been wiped out by Tremere a long time ago. Whatever is this new Goratrix house will be different even if they remain in the Sabbat.
    I really like the Tremere Antitribu / House Goratrix as a group. The regular/main Tremere are already very distinct, dark, mysterious, and ambitious ; a group deemed radicals who broke off from the rest of the Clan really sends me imagination spinning. I think it might have been because of the destruction of them that I started head-canoning World of Darkness. I hope that this is the original House Goratrix, the Tremere Antitribu, in V5.

    Originally posted by Morbus View Post
    Schreckt clearly accused Carna of being more radical than Goratrix at least in how they embraced.
    How do Vampires of House Carna Embrace, that it is deemed radical ? Is it explained how members of House Goratrix are radical in regard to Embracing, or in general ? Also, is there anything on the status of Goratrix himself in V5 ?
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 12-23-2018, 12:19 PM.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Well, I'm less interested in House Carna now than how the Anarchs are changing. My big desire now is to see how the Anarchs become an alternate play style than the Camarilla and how their role as a second sect pushes the Camarilla's influence.

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  • Morbus
    replied
    The Sabbat house has already been wiped out by Tremere a long time ago. Whatever is this new Goratrix house will be different even if they remain in the Sabbat.

    in the short text in the core, Schrekt says the only reason he doesn't wipe the other two houses is because of "voices" (Tremere ? The Council ?) he heard and Carna confirmed she heard them too and that they said all the houses ways are valids. (Or at least those particular three are)

    Schreckt clearly accused Carna of being more radical than Goratrix at least in how they embraced. She defended herself by saying that she remains in the Camarilla as a way to say her house is not that radical.

    This plus the fact that Ipsissmus seems to keep a low profile compared to the other three houses plus what the core says about the allegiance of the houses mentionned there feels like Goratrix is a Camarilla house now. Which is not THAT suprising considering the actual leader of that house.

    Again could be wrong but nothing for now indicates that Goratrix is in the Sabbat. And since everyone is jumping ship apparently, I don't see how a dead house could not.
    Last edited by Morbus; 12-22-2018, 07:01 PM.

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  • Black Flag
    replied
    The association of Carna with the Anarchs has a lot to do with the backstory in BJD, in which Carna and her followers hide out in the free state of LA shortly after breaking their bond to the Pyramid. She was afraid the clan hierarchy would be out to get her for her nonconformity, and the Anarchs seemed a safe bet. There’s also the fact that a nonconformist Tremere would get pegged as an Anarch just because of how tightly controlled the house and clan used to be.

    Now that the Pyramid is broken, Carna can carry on doing her thing without the clan as a whole branding her an apostate. And despite her problems with how the main house was being run, she was still an important Camarilla elder. Her grudge was against the clan hierarchy, not the Traditions.

    Makes sense, even though some of us did initially expect House Carna might be the Anarch house. But now there’s House Ipsissimus, such as it is.

    And I don’t think there’s good reason to believe House Goratrix is *not* Sabbat, as they haven’t been detailed in the context of the Camarilla or the Anarchs, and we’re running out of major sects here. Sure, they could be autarchs, but that’s just another type of Anarch (see again Ipsissimus). Also the bit about recruiting those with “less restrictive morals” is a clue. I imagine what Schrekt was on about was how at least Goratrix’s house was a centuries-old tradition, however sketchy, whereas Carna’s experiment was a novelty, and she was quick to state her allegiance by way of correction.

    Also, just because the Sabbat hasn’t been detailed in V5, that doesn’t mean some foundations aren’t being laid even now. I bet if you look at other V5 material released this farm you’ll see more.
    Last edited by Black Flag; 12-22-2018, 06:54 PM.

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  • Cifer
    replied
    Originally posted by Morbus View Post
    The way the V5 core book is written imply that all houses presented there are part of the Camarilla

    It says flatly that the Tremere houseS are allied with the Camarilla and that Tremeres serve three purposes: Occult expertise for other clans, the Camarilla, Themselves.

    I have no idea where the idea that Carna were Anarch came from especially after as other said she flat out said that her house belong to the Camarilla in the core book. (And then again the Ipsissimus do mention that as well in the Anarch book plus the fact that they are the only anarch House.)

    And while it's not as clear for House Goratrix, it does feels like they also are a Camarilla house because of the strong hints above and also because Carna mentionned her allegiance to the Camarilla after Shreckt mentionned that House Goratrix and House Tremere have more in common with each others than with Carna.

    I doubt he would have said that if Goratrix was still part of the Sabbat plus the Sabbat as far as V5 is concerned for now basically doesn't exist anyway except as boogeymen.
    Goratrix returning to the Camarilla would require quite a bit of explanation. And I think the point Schrekt was making was that it seemed the loyal house has more in common with the Sabbat one than the one that's still nominally Camarilla.

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  • The Gentleman Gamer
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

    Will they receive more development in the future?
    I strongly suspect so.

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  • Morbus
    replied
    The way the V5 core book is written imply that all houses presented there are part of the Camarilla

    It says flatly that the Tremere houseS are allied with the Camarilla and that Tremeres serve three purposes: Occult expertise for other clans, the Camarilla, Themselves.

    I have no idea where the idea that Carna were Anarch came from especially after as other said she flat out said that her house belong to the Camarilla in the core book. (And then again the Ipsissimus do mention that as well in the Anarch book plus the fact that they are the only anarch House.)

    And while it's not as clear for House Goratrix, it does feels like they also are a Camarilla house because of the strong hints above and also because Carna mentionned her allegiance to the Camarilla after Shreckt mentionned that House Goratrix and House Tremere have more in common with each others than with Carna.

    I doubt he would have said that if Goratrix was still part of the Sabbat plus the Sabbat as far as V5 is concerned for now basically doesn't exist anyway except as boogeymen.
    Last edited by Morbus; 12-22-2018, 02:49 PM.

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  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post

    They're detailed only in the Anarch book for now.
    Will they receive more development in the future?

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  • The Gentleman Gamer
    replied
    Originally posted by Cifer View Post
    Have we heard anything about Ipsissimus in V5? If not, I'd be careful about treating them as really relevant to the current canon.
    They're detailed only in the Anarch book for now.

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  • Cifer
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
    Then there’s House Ipsissimus, which is Anarch. They seem to be a collective of Crowleyan individualists who have banded together for mutual aid and protection but aren’t much for people telling them what (not) to do.
    Have we heard anything about Ipsissimus in V5? If not, I'd be careful about treating them as really relevant to the current canon.

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  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Well that sucks. It makes me think far less of House Carna and the Tremere as a whole.
    I think it is more interesting with House Carna staying in the Camarilla while separating themselves from the main Clan Tremere. It serves to emphasize the positive qualities of the Camarilla, and the advantages and benefits available for Vampires who are members.

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  • Black Flag
    replied
    Its almost as if someone realized that “kill on sight” isn’t the most interesting dynamic for rival factions.

    Anyway, I’m really digging the addition of the Ministry, for a number of reasons. And while there has been mention of Anarch Tremere going back at least to V3, this is the first edition wherein it actually makes sense. The Tremere are no longer monolithic, and affiliation is a matter of choice (and recruitment, but not built into the blood like before). I think we’ve seen the end of the days when vampires not of the clan’s main sect were always treated as a separate bloodline.

    So now we have four Tremere houses:

    Looks like Schrekt’s house is still called House Tremere because it’s the conservative one. He also probably believes he’s the most loyal to the original vision of a Tremere himself. So you have a traditionalist Camarilla faction.

    House Carna is the nontraditionalist Camarilla faction. Makes sense to have two Camarilla factions, as that’s the vast majority of the clan, and the Camarilla itself is in flux and has room for multiple ideologies. So Carna is pulling the clan in a more modern/alternative/inclusive direction but still not too far from the main core of the clan.

    Then there’s House Ipsissimus, which is Anarch. They seem to be a collective of Crowleyan individualists who have banded together for mutual aid and protection but aren’t much for people telling them what (not) to do.

    House Goratrix is probably (but not definitely) still Sabbat, but I expect they’ll no longer be treated as an offshoot bloodline, nor are they necessarily incapable of cooperating with the other houses.

    So the Tremere have a house in each major sect and two in its main sect. The clan is stronger now, in that they’ll survive the fall of any single sect, and they can experiment with recruiting different types of people.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    Being in a sect doesn't mean you can't deal with people in other sects. While the Anarch Movement and the Camarilla are Jockying for power that doesn't mean individuals can't play what works best for them as you know.. vampires. One of the best parts of bringing the Anarchs up to the big table(and kicking the Sabbat off it) is that one can have political ambiguity. They tried to add that in v20 but people were too entrenched in the "Sabbat only contains hyper zealots who won't play nice".
    The beginning of the 21st century was not a good time to talk about reasonable militant religious extremists.

    Last edited by CTPhipps; 12-22-2018, 03:32 AM.

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  • Lian
    replied
    Being in a sect doesn't mean you can't deal with people in other sects. While the Anarch Movement and the Camarilla are Jockying for power that doesn't mean individuals can't play what works best for them as you know.. vampires. One of the best parts of bringing the Anarchs up to the big table(and kicking the Sabbat off it) is that one can have political ambiguity. They tried to add that in v20 but people were too entrenched in the "Sabbat only contains hyper zealots who won't play nice".

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  • Wissenschaft
    replied
    The short write up on House Ipsissimus seems to imply its set up like a proper house as in they have the house so Anarch Tremere can safely communicate and coordinate with each other. That said, its all vague enough that you could just use it like a Title and I can totally see Tremere double agents within the anarch. I mean......its the Tremere. lol

    Also, while house Carna is formally Camarilla, they still have dealings with the anarch movement. So, for example, house Carna could be selling their services to the LA barons. They are also very anti-blood bond thanks to Carna herself with methods to remove it, so that alone would grant her house reluctant acceptance among the anarchs.

    In the geek and sundry "LA by night" chronicle, theres a female Tremere offering her services in LA which implies that the Tremere never left LA after the events of bloodlines. (The game being somewhat canon now). The popular assumption is that shes from house Carna but thats mostly because shes female and selling her services to the anarchs.
    Last edited by Wissenschaft; 01-03-2019, 08:04 AM.

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