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Are the Ministry and House Carna a game-changer for the Anarchs?

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  • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    I really think the best thing to ever happened to the Anarchs was Bloodlines, though.
    (...)
    We also have Isaac Abrams, VV, Theresa Voorman and Jeanette, and other non-typical Anarchs.
    I think that the fact that these Vampires are Anarchs should have been emphasized more. They seem distanced from the 'main' group of Anarchs that the player character interacts with ; if this is the case, this should have been commented upon or developed.

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    • Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
      I think that the fact that these Vampires are Anarchs should have been emphasized more. They seem distanced from the 'main' group of Anarchs that the player character interacts with ; if this is the case, this should have been commented upon or developed.
      Isaac is great because he acts like the Camarilla vampire but expresses such disgust and loathing of them every time the subject comes up.

      They break stereotype a bit and hint the Anarchs arent just a bunch of guys in leather jackets.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

        Isaac is great because he acts like the Camarilla vampire but expresses such disgust and loathing of them every time the subject comes up.

        They break stereotype a bit and hint the Anarchs arent just a bunch of guys in leather jackets.
        Personally, my favorite Anarch character of the entire story is Nines. He has enough of a head on his shoulders (and, ostensibly, the life experiences of having been mortal in the Depression) to lead the Anarchs, but reign in their worst impulses. He makes an excellent contrast to Damsel, who's about as stereotypically Brujah and Anarch as one can get; she talks the talk and wears the uniform, but when it comes time for introspection and diving deep on her beliefs there's nothing there.

        Which, Nines is pretty much the perfect example of why I believe the Anarchs are a flawed, self-destructive sect. For every Nines, there's an entire coterie of Damsels. The Nines-es of the movement are ultimately outnumbered and outgunned, and are only in charge so long as there are enemies to rally other Anarchs against; if there ever were to come a time those enemies ceased to be threatening, they'd become the next "establishment" to fight.

        Isaac rubs me the wrong way. Considering his background and character history, in comparison to the way he acts, one can easily infer he's simply playing the part of loyal Anarch as a matter of circumstance until a more lucrative opportunity comes along, at which point he'll jump ship at first opportunity. He was the one Anarch to jump in bed with LaCroix (other than Therese), after all.

        The other Torrie of note, VV, just comes across as apolitical and benign (for a vampire), and something of a fish out of water among the Anarchs for it. Like Isaac, she comes off as simply being Anarch because Anarchs are in control, and were the Cammies to take LA she'd integrate. I believe it says something that of all the other vampires in the city, Voerman loathes her while she has the strongest relationship with Strauss. Not that she'd likely fare better socially in the Camarilla, but one gets the impression at least there she'd be safer.

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        • I really wish ( and still hope... ) that Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines would get the same level of continuation, attention, and development that, for example, the Age of Empires, the Elder Scrolls, the Heroes of Might and Magic, and Civilization series have gotten. I think the game really has the core gameplay and mechanics so well defined and implemented that it is a splendid experience ; it just needs more content.
          Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-07-2019, 03:31 PM.

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          • Isaac is actively against La Croix actually as we see with the fact he wants a Gargoyle to help fight him. My idea is that he's with the Anarchs BECAUSE he knows that he has no future with the Camarilla, position wise.

            Plenty of Elders are smart enough to know that they're small fish in a big pond and among the Anarchs they'll have a much sweeter deal.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • I think you actually don't need Damsel to be a genius in order to have the Anarchs be something more than they are. The issue boils down to the fact they have a lot of petty leaders but very little people who have any actual vision. Leadership is necessary for the Anarch cause to thrive but the problem was their leaders have kind of brought issues:

              1. Macneil wants to create a leaderless society so he shuts down any attempt to make a new leadership.
              2. Salvador is a Spanish communist who is living in America so he might as well be an alien.
              3. Maldavis refuses to take leadership because she lost dozens of her fellows.
              4. Tyler is the original Anarch sell-out and probably has burned every one of her previous bridges.
              5. Lucita joined the Camarilla to fight the Sabbat and then joined the Sabbat so she may be out of the Anarch leadership now.
              6. Juggler was considered a joke as far as 1st Edition.
              7. Xavier is dead. Unlikely as an ex-Justicar may have been to lead the Anarchs.

              There's no national Anarch movement leadership and maybe hat's the point. However, it's a time ripe for change and seeing how the old systems fall away.

              1. Rudi may have made a poor first impression but he has a whole network in Europe that apparently helped take Berlin, one of the oldest cities in the Camarilla.
              2. Hesha is an Elder and a snake with no real Anarch loyalties but he's exactly the sort of demagogue who can speak the language of whoever he's talking to.
              3. Theo Bell may be the big name in Kindred society now because he has slain a much bigger fish than Salvador. The big thing Theo Bell brings to the table, though, is that he actually believes in a vampire government that is for the benefit of the many. It's just not the Camarilla.
              4. An iffy danger is just how sincere Marcus Vitel is because "The Empire of Washington D.C." is an Anarch Free State In Name Only but it was won with Anarch blood and Marcus (according to BJD) at least paid his followers what they wanted. You could easily see him setting up a sort of Sabbat Regent-esque position for his branch of the Anarchs. However, Marcus could also simply appeal to the Camarilla and bring his empire into them with the rest of the lasombra.

              We also have dark horse Anarchs in Chicago by Night who could be regional leaders.

              1. Anita Wainwright: Is actually an Ancilla with one foot in both ends of the "Anarchs as social reformers" and "Anarchs as people who kill people" worlds.
              2. Gengis is someone I don't see becoming a major power but he's gradually developed a devoted following of toadies.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                I think you actually don't need Damsel to be a genius in order to have the Anarchs be something more than they are. The issue boils down to the fact they have a lot of petty leaders but very little people who have any actual vision. Leadership is necessary for the Anarch cause to thrive but the problem was their leaders have kind of brought issues:
                I think that's part of the experience of the Anarchs; leadership is the thing they need most, but least likely thing for them to ever accept because it's against the ideal. They'd have to sacrifice some part of their identity to get it to work.

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                • Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                  I think that's part of the experience of the Anarchs; leadership is the thing they need most, but least likely thing for them to ever accept because it's against the ideal. They'd have to sacrifice some part of their identity to get it to work.
                  Mind you, only writer's fiat keeps them from having a leader who isn't a complete tool.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • Technically, it's only writer's fiat that anything does or does not happen.

                    But, more importantly, with the characters and themes in the Anarchs would lead many of them to rebel against a unified leader, even if it was in their best interest individually or for Anarchs as a group.
                    Because that's how the Anarchs Do.

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