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Are the Ministry and House Carna a game-changer for the Anarchs?

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  • Are the Ministry and House Carna a game-changer for the Anarchs?

    Let's be honest, the Anarchs have always been considered to be the Team Rocket of Vampire: The Masquerade. I think the only Anarchs anyone has actually ever liked are Anita Wainwright, Maldavis, and the ones in Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodline. Salvador sold his race to the Kuei-Jin and Jeremy MacNeil is more or less directly responsible for them never amounting to anything.

    This isn't because they're not tough. The Sabbat invaded from Mexico and got their asses thoroughly handed to them. The only reason the Sabbat crusades were pushed back is because the Anarchs did so because they may hate the Camarilla but they hate the Sabbat more. Also, Washington D.C. was taken back by the Anarchs--it's just they were answering to Marcus Vitel because they follow whoever is strongest.

    The big issue with the Anarchs is, bluntly, they're stupid. I mean that in the literal sense that any individual who is intelligent enough to unite them and direct their energy as well as provide vision gets shut down by MacNeil. Maldavis is the smartest vampire in the Anarchs and she's a nonentity since the sixties.

    However, things have changed dramatically with the joining of the Ministry. They now have Hesha and who knows how many other evil geniuses among them. Say what you will about the Followers of Set but they're a clan of brains and charisma. They also have vast amounts of resources, access to drugs, cash, weapons, and literal cults of fanatical followers. We also have House Carna who are the Tremere if they were crossed with the Verbena as well as Order of Hermes. Carna is an evil genius herself (as well as a serial killer of men but nobody's perfect).

    Will this change the balance of power considerably? The thing about the Ministry is they WON'T try to lead the Anarchs and make themselves targets but they're perfectly capable of ruling behind the throne as well as getting the massive bands of Caitiff, Brujah, and Gangrel to go whichever direction they want. It's kind of their thing.

    Which makes me wonder if they'll be the Lasombra of the new Anarch Sect.

  • Illithid
    replied
    Technically, it's only writer's fiat that anything does or does not happen.

    But, more importantly, with the characters and themes in the Anarchs would lead many of them to rebel against a unified leader, even if it was in their best interest individually or for Anarchs as a group.
    Because that's how the Anarchs Do.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    I think that's part of the experience of the Anarchs; leadership is the thing they need most, but least likely thing for them to ever accept because it's against the ideal. They'd have to sacrifice some part of their identity to get it to work.
    Mind you, only writer's fiat keeps them from having a leader who isn't a complete tool.

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  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    I think you actually don't need Damsel to be a genius in order to have the Anarchs be something more than they are. The issue boils down to the fact they have a lot of petty leaders but very little people who have any actual vision. Leadership is necessary for the Anarch cause to thrive but the problem was their leaders have kind of brought issues:
    I think that's part of the experience of the Anarchs; leadership is the thing they need most, but least likely thing for them to ever accept because it's against the ideal. They'd have to sacrifice some part of their identity to get it to work.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    I think you actually don't need Damsel to be a genius in order to have the Anarchs be something more than they are. The issue boils down to the fact they have a lot of petty leaders but very little people who have any actual vision. Leadership is necessary for the Anarch cause to thrive but the problem was their leaders have kind of brought issues:

    1. Macneil wants to create a leaderless society so he shuts down any attempt to make a new leadership.
    2. Salvador is a Spanish communist who is living in America so he might as well be an alien.
    3. Maldavis refuses to take leadership because she lost dozens of her fellows.
    4. Tyler is the original Anarch sell-out and probably has burned every one of her previous bridges.
    5. Lucita joined the Camarilla to fight the Sabbat and then joined the Sabbat so she may be out of the Anarch leadership now.
    6. Juggler was considered a joke as far as 1st Edition.
    7. Xavier is dead. Unlikely as an ex-Justicar may have been to lead the Anarchs.

    There's no national Anarch movement leadership and maybe hat's the point. However, it's a time ripe for change and seeing how the old systems fall away.

    1. Rudi may have made a poor first impression but he has a whole network in Europe that apparently helped take Berlin, one of the oldest cities in the Camarilla.
    2. Hesha is an Elder and a snake with no real Anarch loyalties but he's exactly the sort of demagogue who can speak the language of whoever he's talking to.
    3. Theo Bell may be the big name in Kindred society now because he has slain a much bigger fish than Salvador. The big thing Theo Bell brings to the table, though, is that he actually believes in a vampire government that is for the benefit of the many. It's just not the Camarilla.
    4. An iffy danger is just how sincere Marcus Vitel is because "The Empire of Washington D.C." is an Anarch Free State In Name Only but it was won with Anarch blood and Marcus (according to BJD) at least paid his followers what they wanted. You could easily see him setting up a sort of Sabbat Regent-esque position for his branch of the Anarchs. However, Marcus could also simply appeal to the Camarilla and bring his empire into them with the rest of the lasombra.

    We also have dark horse Anarchs in Chicago by Night who could be regional leaders.

    1. Anita Wainwright: Is actually an Ancilla with one foot in both ends of the "Anarchs as social reformers" and "Anarchs as people who kill people" worlds.
    2. Gengis is someone I don't see becoming a major power but he's gradually developed a devoted following of toadies.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Isaac is actively against La Croix actually as we see with the fact he wants a Gargoyle to help fight him. My idea is that he's with the Anarchs BECAUSE he knows that he has no future with the Camarilla, position wise.

    Plenty of Elders are smart enough to know that they're small fish in a big pond and among the Anarchs they'll have a much sweeter deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    I really wish ( and still hope... ) that Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines would get the same level of continuation, attention, and development that, for example, the Age of Empires, the Elder Scrolls, the Heroes of Might and Magic, and Civilization series have gotten. I think the game really has the core gameplay and mechanics so well defined and implemented that it is a splendid experience ; it just needs more content.
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-07-2019, 03:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theodrim
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Isaac is great because he acts like the Camarilla vampire but expresses such disgust and loathing of them every time the subject comes up.

    They break stereotype a bit and hint the Anarchs arent just a bunch of guys in leather jackets.
    Personally, my favorite Anarch character of the entire story is Nines. He has enough of a head on his shoulders (and, ostensibly, the life experiences of having been mortal in the Depression) to lead the Anarchs, but reign in their worst impulses. He makes an excellent contrast to Damsel, who's about as stereotypically Brujah and Anarch as one can get; she talks the talk and wears the uniform, but when it comes time for introspection and diving deep on her beliefs there's nothing there.

    Which, Nines is pretty much the perfect example of why I believe the Anarchs are a flawed, self-destructive sect. For every Nines, there's an entire coterie of Damsels. The Nines-es of the movement are ultimately outnumbered and outgunned, and are only in charge so long as there are enemies to rally other Anarchs against; if there ever were to come a time those enemies ceased to be threatening, they'd become the next "establishment" to fight.

    Isaac rubs me the wrong way. Considering his background and character history, in comparison to the way he acts, one can easily infer he's simply playing the part of loyal Anarch as a matter of circumstance until a more lucrative opportunity comes along, at which point he'll jump ship at first opportunity. He was the one Anarch to jump in bed with LaCroix (other than Therese), after all.

    The other Torrie of note, VV, just comes across as apolitical and benign (for a vampire), and something of a fish out of water among the Anarchs for it. Like Isaac, she comes off as simply being Anarch because Anarchs are in control, and were the Cammies to take LA she'd integrate. I believe it says something that of all the other vampires in the city, Voerman loathes her while she has the strongest relationship with Strauss. Not that she'd likely fare better socially in the Camarilla, but one gets the impression at least there she'd be safer.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
    I think that the fact that these Vampires are Anarchs should have been emphasized more. They seem distanced from the 'main' group of Anarchs that the player character interacts with ; if this is the case, this should have been commented upon or developed.
    Isaac is great because he acts like the Camarilla vampire but expresses such disgust and loathing of them every time the subject comes up.

    They break stereotype a bit and hint the Anarchs arent just a bunch of guys in leather jackets.

    Leave a comment:


  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    I really think the best thing to ever happened to the Anarchs was Bloodlines, though.
    (...)
    We also have Isaac Abrams, VV, Theresa Voorman and Jeanette, and other non-typical Anarchs.
    I think that the fact that these Vampires are Anarchs should have been emphasized more. They seem distanced from the 'main' group of Anarchs that the player character interacts with ; if this is the case, this should have been commented upon or developed.

    Leave a comment:


  • El Barto
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

    I would argue they did. As has been argued in circle's here a lot, vampires are monsters, parasites, and they make everything worse - they damaged the economy in their war. That vampires triggered the Great Recession also tracks with the VtM books, where it was vampires in Chicago that destroyed America's steel industry as part of their jyhad. And saying the vampires caused either of those doesn't come close to saying they caused the problems in Chechnia.
    Still could've been phrased better. That being said, passing them off as a fad in V5 wasn't a decision I liked. As condescending and reckless as they were, I thought they were a good millenial dissent against older anarchs.
    Plus no mention of the Digital Draculas, which was a bit weird.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    I think one of the writers thought the Anarchs should have been responsible to a major happening on mortal society. But,the writer didnt actually picked the right one
    I would argue they did. As has been argued in circle's here a lot, vampires are monsters, parasites, and they make everything worse - they damaged the economy in their war. That vampires triggered the Great Recession also tracks with the VtM books, where it was vampires in Chicago that destroyed America's steel industry as part of their jyhad. And saying the vampires caused either of those doesn't come close to saying they caused the problems in Chechnia.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    I bloody love crossovers
    The funniest part? None of them ever knew the other was a supernatural. It was all done via computer chat, code, and datawarfare.

    Part of why it worked.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicolas Milioni
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Mind you, Endron Oil was destroyed by a combination of Anarch, Virtual Adept, and Glasswalker Hackers in my games.

    Pentex is still reeling from that.

    I bloody love crossovers

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    I think one of the writers thought the Anarchs should have been responsible to a major happening on mortal society. But,the writer didnt actually picked the right one
    Mind you, Endron Oil was destroyed by a combination of Anarch, Virtual Adept, and Glasswalker Hackers in my games.

    Pentex is still reeling from that.


    Leave a comment:

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