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Are the Ministry and House Carna a game-changer for the Anarchs?

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  • Are the Ministry and House Carna a game-changer for the Anarchs?

    Let's be honest, the Anarchs have always been considered to be the Team Rocket of Vampire: The Masquerade. I think the only Anarchs anyone has actually ever liked are Anita Wainwright, Maldavis, and the ones in Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodline. Salvador sold his race to the Kuei-Jin and Jeremy MacNeil is more or less directly responsible for them never amounting to anything.

    This isn't because they're not tough. The Sabbat invaded from Mexico and got their asses thoroughly handed to them. The only reason the Sabbat crusades were pushed back is because the Anarchs did so because they may hate the Camarilla but they hate the Sabbat more. Also, Washington D.C. was taken back by the Anarchs--it's just they were answering to Marcus Vitel because they follow whoever is strongest.

    The big issue with the Anarchs is, bluntly, they're stupid. I mean that in the literal sense that any individual who is intelligent enough to unite them and direct their energy as well as provide vision gets shut down by MacNeil. Maldavis is the smartest vampire in the Anarchs and she's a nonentity since the sixties.

    However, things have changed dramatically with the joining of the Ministry. They now have Hesha and who knows how many other evil geniuses among them. Say what you will about the Followers of Set but they're a clan of brains and charisma. They also have vast amounts of resources, access to drugs, cash, weapons, and literal cults of fanatical followers. We also have House Carna who are the Tremere if they were crossed with the Verbena as well as Order of Hermes. Carna is an evil genius herself (as well as a serial killer of men but nobody's perfect).

    Will this change the balance of power considerably? The thing about the Ministry is they WON'T try to lead the Anarchs and make themselves targets but they're perfectly capable of ruling behind the throne as well as getting the massive bands of Caitiff, Brujah, and Gangrel to go whichever direction they want. It's kind of their thing.

    Which makes me wonder if they'll be the Lasombra of the new Anarch Sect.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

  • #2
    House Carna aren't Anarch though.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by thebiglarpnerd View Post
      House Carna aren't Anarch though.
      They've repeatedly been said to be Anarch.

      ?


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

        They've repeatedly been said to be Anarch.

        ?

        Thats kind of before V5 clarifies in the rulebook that they are still part of the Camerilla. The anarch book provides the name of a proper anarch Tremere house ( Ipsissimus) but they are pretty underground given the level of fear they have of being hunted by the main house. They also don't like house Carna for while those witches claim to have Anarch sympathies they still operate within the Camarilla.

        Note: House Ipsissimus isn't Anarch because they are rebelling against their elders. Rather they just think the Cam holds them back from their spiritual ascension.
        Last edited by Wissenschaft; 12-21-2018, 09:42 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          They've repeatedly been said to be Anarch.

          ?
          They are Camarilla according to Carna - V5 pg. 94


          Currently running: Gary/Chicago By Night

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wissenschaft View Post


            Thats kind before V5 clarifies in the rulebook that they are still part of the Camerilla. The anarch book provides the name of a proper Tremere house but they are pretty unground given the level of fear they have of being hunted by the main house.
            Well that sucks. It makes me think far less of House Carna and the Tremere as a whole.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

              They've repeatedly been said to be Anarch.

              ?

              The V5 core,Tremere writeup, has an in-world discussion between Carna, Schrekt and a Goratrix representative. Carna flatly states that her House is Camarilla, for the moment.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                Well that sucks. It makes me think far less of House Carna and the Tremere as a whole.

                Well, as I said after I finished editing my text, they have a proper Anarch Tremere house so if thats what you want then its what you got. Its just not House Carna. It does seem to be vaguely hinted that house Gortraix is in the Sabbat which means the Tremere have a house in every sect.

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                • #9
                  Plus, while Carna herself pledges the allegiance of her house to the Camarilla, I don't see her spending too much effort to hunt down those who'd prefer going Anarch.

                  Additionally, the Anarchs have more than the few named canon characters. To say they're all stupid is to assume nothing happens without the iconics being part of it. The Brujah, Nosferatu and Toreador all have subsets that embrace from quite intelligent and creative people. To think they need the Ministry or Tremere is to reduce clans of individuals to their stereotypes.
                  Last edited by Cifer; 12-21-2018, 10:37 PM.

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                  • #10
                    What if House Ipsissimus is simply the cover name used by Tremere when the go Anarch? That is, it's not a formal house or organization, but a title they take, like a pseudonym. And House Carna may eventually drift into the Anarchs.

                    But yes, the presence of Tremere and Ministry vampires should change the nature of the Anarchs.

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                    • #11
                      The short write up on House Ipsissimus seems to imply its set up like a proper house as in they have the house so Anarch Tremere can safely communicate and coordinate with each other. That said, its all vague enough that you could just use it like a Title and I can totally see Tremere double agents within the anarch. I mean......its the Tremere. lol

                      Also, while house Carna is formally Camarilla, they still have dealings with the anarch movement. So, for example, house Carna could be selling their services to the LA barons. They are also very anti-blood bond thanks to Carna herself with methods to remove it, so that alone would grant her house reluctant acceptance among the anarchs.

                      In the geek and sundry "LA by night" chronicle, theres a female Tremere offering her services in LA which implies that the Tremere never left LA after the events of bloodlines. (The game being somewhat canon now). The popular assumption is that shes from house Carna but thats mostly because shes female and selling her services to the anarchs.
                      Last edited by Wissenschaft; 01-03-2019, 08:04 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Being in a sect doesn't mean you can't deal with people in other sects. While the Anarch Movement and the Camarilla are Jockying for power that doesn't mean individuals can't play what works best for them as you know.. vampires. One of the best parts of bringing the Anarchs up to the big table(and kicking the Sabbat off it) is that one can have political ambiguity. They tried to add that in v20 but people were too entrenched in the "Sabbat only contains hyper zealots who won't play nice".

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lian View Post
                          Being in a sect doesn't mean you can't deal with people in other sects. While the Anarch Movement and the Camarilla are Jockying for power that doesn't mean individuals can't play what works best for them as you know.. vampires. One of the best parts of bringing the Anarchs up to the big table(and kicking the Sabbat off it) is that one can have political ambiguity. They tried to add that in v20 but people were too entrenched in the "Sabbat only contains hyper zealots who won't play nice".
                          The beginning of the 21st century was not a good time to talk about reasonable militant religious extremists.

                          Last edited by CTPhipps; 12-22-2018, 03:32 AM.


                          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                          • #14
                            Its almost as if someone realized that “kill on sight” isn’t the most interesting dynamic for rival factions.

                            Anyway, I’m really digging the addition of the Ministry, for a number of reasons. And while there has been mention of Anarch Tremere going back at least to V3, this is the first edition wherein it actually makes sense. The Tremere are no longer monolithic, and affiliation is a matter of choice (and recruitment, but not built into the blood like before). I think we’ve seen the end of the days when vampires not of the clan’s main sect were always treated as a separate bloodline.

                            So now we have four Tremere houses:

                            Looks like Schrekt’s house is still called House Tremere because it’s the conservative one. He also probably believes he’s the most loyal to the original vision of a Tremere himself. So you have a traditionalist Camarilla faction.

                            House Carna is the nontraditionalist Camarilla faction. Makes sense to have two Camarilla factions, as that’s the vast majority of the clan, and the Camarilla itself is in flux and has room for multiple ideologies. So Carna is pulling the clan in a more modern/alternative/inclusive direction but still not too far from the main core of the clan.

                            Then there’s House Ipsissimus, which is Anarch. They seem to be a collective of Crowleyan individualists who have banded together for mutual aid and protection but aren’t much for people telling them what (not) to do.

                            House Goratrix is probably (but not definitely) still Sabbat, but I expect they’ll no longer be treated as an offshoot bloodline, nor are they necessarily incapable of cooperating with the other houses.

                            So the Tremere have a house in each major sect and two in its main sect. The clan is stronger now, in that they’ll survive the fall of any single sect, and they can experiment with recruiting different types of people.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                              Well that sucks. It makes me think far less of House Carna and the Tremere as a whole.
                              I think it is more interesting with House Carna staying in the Camarilla while separating themselves from the main Clan Tremere. It serves to emphasize the positive qualities of the Camarilla, and the advantages and benefits available for Vampires who are members.

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