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What sort of Magical Defenses could have saved Austria and Venice?

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  • What sort of Magical Defenses could have saved Austria and Venice?

    So I’m a bit irked that the two clans who concentrate their eggs in one basket seemed to be completely vulnerable to missile strikes. I get it they weren’t expecting to be bombed. But what Magic’s could they have employed preventatively for such assaults?

    One I liked to consider was the council of seven created a Shadow Chantry type of pocket Dimension accessible through say a mirror or a tapestry in the Austria chantry where they kept their supernatural Ordinance and their “ancients” could more blatantly act as Witch gods. Similar not maybe he Giovanni had catacombs extruding some chambers into the Underworld.

    Or maybe blood runes designed to funnel excess damage (ie explosions) into the spirit world?

    While I feel missile strikes could work, I like the idea they at least had some preparations for it.

    Or maybe Venice had rituals cast to instantly upload destroyed property into the cloud, by that I mean it gets converted into relics.


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    Honestly, I think being defenseless before a missile strike makes sense and works with the theme of Vampire: The Masquerade. Going back to The Inquisition, when humans get scared, organized, and pissed off they can do enormous damage to the Cainite community. Many methesulas were destroyed during WWI and WWII, and they were just collateral damage. Vampires defend themselves by corrupting and controlling the masses, not by fighting against them.

    In the real world, there's little any country can do against an unexpected missile strike. Mutually Assured Destruction works for a reason. There's a lot of advantages in keeping all decision making in one place, but you've got to accept the risks that come with it.

    Something similar happened to the Followers of Set in Egypt during the 13th century. When the real life Sultan Baibars purged the country of infidels, he also hunted the local Settites to near extinction (see https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Pr...n_of_Red_Tears). They ceased being a somewhat centralized organization (a "Ministry", if you will) and became more of a loose connections of cults. If Egyptian Settites couldn't handle angry and focused mortals centuries ago, the Tremere and Giovanni certainly couldn't do it now.
    Last edited by ebakunin; 12-23-2018, 06:23 PM.

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    • #3
      The issue is that the Tremere only had a hammer.

      What they needed was something....that wasn't a hammer.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #4
        The same ones an Antedeluvian has against Technocratic attacks.

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        • #5
          I doubt anything would have worked as the attack worked because of editorial mandate; the games writers, producers and editors made it happen.

          In game, the attack worked as well as it did because of betrayal and sabotage - Tremere, Saulot, or another Antedeluvian made it happen, or Schrekt made it happen to destroy the Inner Circle and the Worm. In any event, no magical protection would have worked.

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          • #6
            Well... high levels of Auspex should allow reflexive danger sense. Maybe not so clear on the threat but come on, an incoming missile attack on a whole Tremere chantry should have activated at least 20 rolls from the elders and with a decent warning (as the drone was launched? Let's say half an hour); there are no rituals nor powers though that can work against an airstrike afaik, unless they actually can see the missile and deflect it away through telekinesis, and such a vague warning probably gave them just the idea to get the hell out as long as there still was time.
            But, then again it was probably daytime so they would have been sleeping, sluggish and requiring some tir or darkened window taxi to flee. Maybe some of them survived nevertheless, especially if they slept outside the Chantry. Maybe, if some better warning could have been received... ghouls in the secret services, pawns in the governments, leaked or stolen intel - even if it's going to be really, REALLY hard for vampires to crack a Technocracy data center, even assuming they can still use the Technomancy path.

            Similar arguments for the Giovanni, that would have been even less lucky since they don't have Auspex as a clan discipline. Still, Augustus is supposed to be awake in Venice and it must mean something. However, it doesn't matter much how many vampires actually died: the point is that the Inquisition is back and better than ever and the Vamps need to vanish even from the less-public eye if they want to survive.

            Not sure why they didn't target Sabbat cities though, they're a lot more obvious than the others. No one is going to deny that both Vienna and Venezia were obvious too, but I'd have picked Rome or Mexico City first. Not sure why the Pentex would join up the second inquisition either, half of its board is made of Vampires.

            I doubt anything would have worked as the attack worked because of editorial mandate; the games writers, producers and editors made it happen.

            In game, the attack worked as well as it did because of betrayal and sabotage - Tremere, Saulot, or another Antedeluvian made it happen, or Schrekt made it happen to destroy the Inner Circle and the Worm. In any event, no magical protection would have worked.
            I think you're missing the point by a mile...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lian View Post
              The same ones an Antedeluvian has against Technocratic attacks.
              A fuckload of fortitude and the ability to rewrite reality with an illusion of your choice?

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              • #8
                Truthfully their is nothing as written then could have stopped these attacks the way you are proposing. If they had some heads up, the Tremere might have been able to erect a down of telekinetic energy via Movement of the Mind or some kind of Illusion ritual that shows the chantry a ways off from where it actually is. The latter is really venturing into Chimerstry territory though. For the Giovanni, they might have been able of evacuated into the Shadowlands via ritual. Neither solution is great and just goes to show why maintaining the Masquerade was important.

                Are you trying to find some justification for having them the old way in your game?

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                • #9
                  After World War II I would imagine they have concessions. And I’ve been arguing the inner circle should have been shepherding pyramid power for centuries doing grand secret infrastructure type miracle workings like hidden blood depots, a secret tunnel through mirror portals and their own shadow chantry hidden between worlds.

                  They knew after WWII they could potentially be wrecked. It would be foolish to not have some sort of minimum emergency plan.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kael03 View Post

                    A fuckload of fortitude and the ability to rewrite reality with an illusion of your choice?

                    which still failed!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                      I doubt anything would have worked as the attack worked because of editorial mandate; the games writers, producers and editors made it happen.

                      In game, the attack worked as well as it did because of betrayal and sabotage - Tremere, Saulot, or another Antedeluvian made it happen, or Schrekt made it happen to destroy the Inner Circle and the Worm. In any event, no magical protection would have worked.
                      I think that they couldn't attack the chantry.

                      But could they utterly destroy it and easily with a bomb?

                      Absolutely.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • #12
                        Tremere, Saulot, or another Antedeluvian, or Schrekt could have set up the SI to be able to attack the Vienna chantry. They could have turned off the defenses, or manipulated someone else into turning off the defenses. And prodded the SI into making the best tactical attack possible.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lian View Post


                          which still failed!
                          So we believe because... fuckload of Fortitude and the ability to rewrite reality.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kael03 View Post

                            So we believe because... fuckload of Fortitude and the ability to rewrite reality.
                            I remember reading a joke ages ago about how Ravnos won the Jyhad by his Chimistry to turn the WoD into an RPG.

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                            • #15
                              Well ' Ward versus Technology' which all the important elements of the chantry had according to canon, should have turned the missile to dust and combined with 'Sanctuary' another ritual supposedly on the Chantry no one could have even entered the buildings uninvited.......so either it was a massive coordinated inside job or...... it was just written to happen no matter what defences were in place.

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