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Will the NPCs follow the humanity rules in design?

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  • CajunKhan
    started a topic Will the NPCs follow the humanity rules in design?

    Will the NPCs follow the humanity rules in design?

    Generally speaking, the NPCs in modules don't really follow the rules when it comes to how their humanity affects their behavior, social skills, and appearance. According to the rules, a low humanity vampire is pretty much Darth Sidious at his most obviously evil. Whereas low humanity NPCs come across more like Game of Thrones characters. Which is to say self-interested but still very human. Will the 5th edition sourcebooks follow the humanity rules in their design?

  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
    There’s a little more to it, in that now it’s explicit that you have to taste the blood of a vampire with a discipline that your clan doesn’t manifest naturally. But it’s true that the game has always assumed that vampires eventually learn non-clan disciplines.
    Under the rule that the Clan specific Disciplines ( Serpentis, Obtenebration etc. ) require specific tutelage ( or Vitae of a member of a particular Clan ) , I always liked seeing these Disciplines in character outlines without any explanation. Surely such a Vampire has been around .

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  • Black Flag
    replied
    Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
    Surely such a Vampire travelled a lot ( or received travellers ) , received tutelage, and learned these Disciplines . Or learned some of them without tutelage, through intense practice. There are stories behind characters having the Disciplines that they do ; it is just almost never given in the limited space of the character outlines.

    There’s a little more to it, in that now it’s explicit that you have to taste the blood of a vampire with a discipline that your clan doesn’t manifest naturally. But it’s true that the game has always assumed that vampires eventually learn non-clan disciplines. Even in V5 it’s normal, as most predator types will get you a dot in one. But the way vampires fight and make love, this kind of blood-tasting probably isn’t that uncommon.

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  • Black Flag
    replied
    Originally posted by Cifer View Post
    One slight problem is that Humanity has become far more malleable in V5. Think about a veteran of the Camarilla-Sabbat wars who's killed maybe around 50 shovelheads in various engagements.
    Now think about the Chronicle Tenets. Is it "Do not kill" or "Do not kill innocents"? The answer to this question might be the difference between Instant Wight and Humanity 6, but obviously, the book has to print a single number.
    I’d say chronicle tenets only exist for PCs. They’re not objective reality but a convenient way of structuring the PCs’ story by focusing on certain things. So for SPCs Humanity is a generic trait and you don’t need to think too much about it, whereas foe the PCs you can tailor the system to suit the sort of game you’re running. If in doubt, I suppose the “humanist” tenets are the most generic/traditional.

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  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
    Or some OOC disciplines that have no story justification.
    Surely such a Vampire travelled a lot ( or received travellers ) , received tutelage, and learned these Disciplines . Or learned some of them without tutelage, through intense practice. There are stories behind characters having the Disciplines that they do ; it is just almost never given in the limited space of the character outlines.

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  • Cifer
    replied
    One slight problem is that Humanity has become far more malleable in V5. Think about a veteran of the Camarilla-Sabbat wars who's killed maybe around 50 shovelheads in various engagements.
    Now think about the Chronicle Tenets. Is it "Do not kill" or "Do not kill innocents"? The answer to this question might be the difference between Instant Wight and Humanity 6, but obviously, the book has to print a single number.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pnizzle
    replied
    Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
    I think it means arbitrary assingement, with little to no rationale put into it.
    Yep. Over time you’d notice weird stuff like some elder who diablerized like a madman but has high humanity...
    Or some OOC disciplines that have no story justification.

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  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post
    Will the 5th edition sourcebooks follow the humanity rules in their design?
    They might. In Chicago by Night 5th, Ballard - a vile bastard - is described as appearing inhuman, like an animate block of suet or something. That is to say, he has low humanity and does not appear to be human.

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  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post

    Bingo markered? I am not familiar with this slang.
    I think it means arbitrary assingement, with little to no rationale put into it.

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  • CajunKhan
    replied
    Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
    Probably gonna get bingo markered like the other editions.
    Bingo markered? I am not familiar with this slang.

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  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Flag View Post

    Sorry, I misunderstood. In that case I think, yes, there is an effort to make these things line up better, and I think there has been some effort in that direction in CbN. At least compared to V1, where the Humanity scores seldom made any sense.
    From a certain perspective, I like these Humanity scores. What do we know about these characters, anyway ? Yes, they might have done ( or not done ) x, z, and y...but if they have the given Humanity score, then clearly she ( or he ) somehow came to it. A person can have all sorts of attitudes, viewpoints, mindsets, approaches, and outlooks that could lead to a given Humanity score. It is not for others to doubt, judge, or criticize .

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  • Pnizzle
    replied
    Probably gonna get bingo markered like the other editions.

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  • Black Flag
    replied
    Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post
    I'm not talking about mortals, I'm talking about NPC vampires.Their descriptions of appearance and behavior almost never match the descriptions next to the humanity score chart.
    Sorry, I misunderstood. In that case I think, yes, there is an effort to make these things line up better, and I think there has been some effort in that direction in CbN. At least compared to V1, where the Humanity scores seldom made any sense.

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  • Vamps Like Us
    replied
    I don't think this will be helpful either but due to a post on this board I dropped Humanity, kept Virtues to resist various frenzy, and kept willpower. The game works fine expunging that aspect. It actually seems to make people (or at least my players) more inclined to raise virtues for some reason.

    I don't know if I would do it for every game, but I don't see any real downside if you don't care about the downward spiral you'd normally have. I think writers feel the same way. They want a certain type of character for the story, the endless killing by the rules would have driven them mad, so it gets ignored.

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  • CajunKhan
    replied
    I'm not talking about mortals, I'm talking about NPC vampires.Their descriptions of appearance and behavior almost never match the descriptions next to the humanity score chart.

    Leave a comment:

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