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Is India a giant missing gap in WOD?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Saga View Post

    If this happens, please *PLEASE* keep Gratiano as Archbishop of Rio de Janeiro (Bruce Baugh's Lasombra trilogy) and Callisti & Callisto as Prince of Buenos Aires (Clanbook Toreador 2nd ed).

    After that, yeah, Drowned Legacies everywhere else is fine.

    - Saga

    https://www.storytellersvault.com/pr..._45624_0_0_0_0

    https://www.storytellersvault.com/pr..._45624_0_0_0_0

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    • #32
      Wow! It got published! I remember the authr posted the first two pages and two covers for this book back in the old forums. I told him of Gratiano being the Archbishop but I think he chose not to include him.

      Hope to get this one sometime.

      - Saga

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Saga View Post
        (...)
        After that, yeah, Drowned Legacies everywhere else is fine.
        I would prefer for a South American book(s) to be written with the Drowned Legacies being minor groups at most ; or them not being mentioned at all. I really would like the South America to be described, defined, and outlined as the third continent on which the Camarilla, the Sabbat, and the Tal'Mahe'Ra ( and other Sects, factions, and groups ) are established and involved extensively and significantly.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
          I would prefer for a South American book(s) to be written with the Drowned Legacies being minor groups at most ; or them not being mentioned at all. I really would like the South America to be described, defined, and outlined as the third continent on which the Camarilla, the Sabbat, and the Tal'Mahe'Ra ( and other Sects, factions, and groups ) are established and involved extensively and significantly.
          I completely agree with you. But it is shown that South America never was a place in which authors wanted to be shown in the same light as North America and Europe. The fact that "something unknown there" killed kindred sporadically (later to be revealed as the Tlacique) and now the Drowned Legacies in BJD means that they still think of it in such a way.

          -Saga

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Saga View Post

            I completely agree with you. But it is shown that South America never was a place in which authors wanted to be shown in the same light as North America and Europe. The fact that "something unknown there" killed kindred sporadically (later to be revealed as the Tlacique) and now the Drowned Legacies in BJD means that they still think of it in such a way.

            -Saga
            I think that this is a shame. Not only because I am interested in seeing Vampires ( and Mages ) in South America of WoD described and detailed ; but also because I think that this continent could definitely use additional appreciation and attention in fictions overall.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
              I think that this is a shame. Not only because I am interested in seeing Vampires ( and Mages ) in South America of WoD described and detailed ; but also because I think that this continent could definitely use additional appreciation and attention in fictions overall.
              Agreed. I believe the only reason they didn’t deal with SA back in the 90s is that they just didn’t know much about it, and part of that is because there isn’t much of this sort of media set there. Or st least not that is widely available, even less in the pre-internet age. I’ve since seen a pretty good Peruvian Vampire movíe, but for us back then there was nada.

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              • #37
                The C20 Players' Guide is set to give some coverage of Changeling South America (along with a few other areas the original underserved - Africa, the Middle East and Australia), so that's something.


                Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
                  (...) I’ve since seen a pretty good Peruvian Vampire movíe, but for us back then there was nada.
                  What is the title of this movie ?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Black Flag View Post

                    Agreed. I believe the only reason they didn’t deal with SA back in the 90s is that they just didn’t know much about it, and part of that is because there isn’t much of this sort of media set there. Or st least not that is widely available, even less in the pre-internet age. I’ve since seen a pretty good Peruvian Vampire movíe, but for us back then there was nada.
                    In second this! I only remember Sangre Eterna (from Chile) which was partially based in the roleplaying game.

                    Which one was it?

                    - Saga

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                    • #40
                      I think India is well written and defined. It does not have a great metaplot rolling, but we know what the social structure was and how the clans carried on their cultural spectrum and how they coexist with the invasions of East Asia, the Muslims and the West.

                      Different from what happens with Latin America, which includes Mexico, since there was no work defining what the vampires were like before the arrival of Europeans and how they integrated modernity as well as impacted on the culture and politics of those Europeans. locations. Simply White Wolf used the lazy decision to say that their culture was completely destroyed (which is not true even for deadly Indian culture, let alone a counterfactual scenario for powerful vampires in a densely populated region).

                      India was hit by the War of the Princes and Anarchist Revolt, had several cultural invasions. What happened in Latin America? What were the Monarchies like? Were they at War? Was there anything similar to these phenomena? How did these sides of the conflict integrate into the Sabbath arrival?

                      On India the only thing missing is a quick description of the Monarchy or Monarchies in force in the 13th century, with its structure and Maraja.

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                      • #41
                        And when it comes to portraying Mexico research on the complexity of the Aztec mentality that even had formal philosophy and something very close to the universities. They have a cultural mindset of their own that goes way beyond the "they sacrifice human blood to the gods" which seems to be the only aspect portrayed.

                        Concept as Death Predise Life, the various deaths that we pass, the composition of the sanguine soul, the fight against excesses and punishment to any extreme behavior, the reality of two civilizing gods bring antagonistic and unacceptable moralities and both are right (at the same time that there are concepts of mistakes). The great power of non-clerical intellectual elites and the commercial bureaucracy. In addition to exploring the legends. We only have the cheap version of a God as the Devil when we have interesting concepts like the defeat of the Moon.

                        I have in fanmade a group of mages based on the myth of creation.

                        Other important things is that Aztecs are not Maya, they have had very different cultures and different conceptions of the world. It's like China and India.

                        And that Central American and Mexican culture is as far removed from South American culture as it was from the Muslims and Europe in the Middle Ages (and contrary to what is believed Mexican culture was on the same historical footing in all respects - except diplomacy and navigation - old world of his time, so the mentality was very similar to the Chinese as a political and intellectual structure, but not mystical of course). South America had a smaller world culture so the logic of the Andes and Patagonia was of the Bronze Age Empires and the Amazon had a particular logic with the Tupi Great Expansion and its planned looting structures in small cities (until they scarce resources and collapse).

                        Although I would use the actual plan of colonization and expansion Aztec (which never went out of paper) to simplify things. The logic of Aztec conquest was the same as that of Romana, except that they preferred to open colonial centers in places like spices, obsidian, trade routes or places of symbolic importance and knowledge (they had their secular archaeologists) in the form of domination of others people.

                        Soon I would say that there was a supernatural expansion of the vampires of Mexico on the continent (not reflected in human society) to the point of creating a high common culture among the vampires but nevertheless they still maintain their local cultures, kind of like it was with the Greek culture in Medieval Europe.

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                        • #42
                          The most prominent empire in South America was the Inca (tawantinsuyu IIRC). Most of the patagonian indigenous people learned and advanced technologically thanks to the Incas.

                          The amazon has an enigmatic mystery. Kuhikugu (or City of Z). Apparently there was an earlier civilization before the Inca and this might be it. There's also Tiwanaku and Puma Punku, both predating the Incas. So yeah, one can say that there is a lot to build from if desired.

                          Of course, if one follows Graham Hancock's questioning of the origin of civilization, we can actually place Atlantis in the Richat structure, Mauritania, and probably make it the First City.

                          - Saga
                          Last edited by Saga; 01-03-2019, 03:38 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Saga View Post
                            The most prominent empire in South America was the Inca (tawantinsuyu IIRC). Most of the patagonian indigenous people learned and advanced technologically thanks to the Incas.

                            The amazon has an enigmatic mystery. Kuhikugu (or City of Z). Apparently there was an earlier civilization before the Inca and this might be it. There's also Tiwanaku and Puma Punku, both predating the Incas. So yeah, one can say that there is a lot to build from if desired.

                            Of course, if one follows Graham Hancock's questioning of the origin of civilization, we can actually place Atlantis in the Richat structure and provably make it the First City.

                            - Saga

                            Exactly.

                            ______________________

                            That said in the White Wolf books it seems that vampires move easily from South America to Mexico. This did not happen in human society, but for vampires it is plausible to be alone in them.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                              What is the title of this movie ?
                              Can’t seem to find it again. I’m pretty sure it took place near Lima in colonial times, and it’s a vampire film only in very broad terms, and even that is a bit of a spoiler. I recall seeing it on Netflix a few years ago, and it centered on a young priest who returned to his family estate to find it almost empty from a plague. But of course things aren’t what they seem.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Saga View Post

                                Wow! It got published! I remember the authr posted the first two pages and two covers for this book back in the old forums. I told him of Gratiano being the Archbishop but I think he chose not to include him.

                                Hope to get this one sometime.

                                - Saga

                                I'll need to give it a read through but I think Gratiano is there......don't quote me....I'll have another look after work. Its a pretty good publication, I've been very impressed with a lot of the SV material. Just make sure to check ratings and reviews as theres a small percentage of schlock there as well.

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