Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is India a giant missing gap in WOD?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Ben Linus View Post
    Soon I would say that there was a supernatural expansion of the vampires of Mexico on the continent (not reflected in human society) to the point of creating a high common culture among the vampires but nevertheless they still maintain their local cultures, kind of like it was with the Greek culture in Medieval Europe.
    I would argue for two spheres - Central America, and South America. Possibly a historical third in North America. But in any case, I would be more interested in material on the Drowned Legacies than Sabbat cities. And it should be written by people from South and Central America with an appreciation for the folklore, history and local cultures.

    But that is also true for an additional material on South Asia.

    Comment


    • #47
      It's very strange that White Wolf and none of his licensees have no employees who at least live in Mexico, Brazil and Argentina.

      I do not know what the picture in Asia is, they had at least MachineIV living in Japan. Here I think the focal points would be Japan, Hong Kong, India and (I do not know which would be the quietest place to live in the Middle East).

      That would make it wide enough beyond Europe and the United States.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Ben Linus View Post
        It's very strange that White Wolf and none of his licensees have no employees who at least live in Mexico, Brazil and Argentina.

        I do not know what the picture in Asia is, they had at least MachineIV living in Japan. Here I think the focal points would be Japan, Hong Kong, India and (I do not know which would be the quietest place to live in the Middle East).

        That would make it wide enough beyond Europe and the United States.
        Spanish editions for Vampire were done by La Factoria, which is based in Spain.

        I do live in Argentina and I went to Brazil 6 times for vacations, plus I'm kind of a self taught anthropologist aficionado, so if they ever need info on South America white-wolf/Onyx Path, just ask.

        - Saga

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Black Flag View Post

          Agreed. I believe the only reason they didn’t deal with SA back in the 90s is that they just didn’t know much about it, and part of that is because there isn’t much of this sort of media set there.
          If you're under the age of, say, 40, it's difficult to really understand just how hard it used to be to find out about certain parts of the world, especially cultural details like folklore, mythology and mysticism, before the Internet. In the 90s, almost all of the average American media-based conception of South America could be summed up as "Columbian drug cartels/Amazon rainforest deforestation". If you were more politically oriented, you also were at least aware of the Shining Path, that there'd been a war between Argentina and the UK in the 80s, and Pinochet. You might've also heard of capoeira. And that was about it. The massive growth of global media and self-produced internet material has alleviated this a bit, but not entirely.

          The other issue is that when it comes to the level of gamer interest in regional settings, South America wasn't a popular as, say, East Asia (particularly Japan and China/Hong Kong). So, we got Rage Across the Amazon because the Amazon deforestation thing tied in so strongly to Werewolf's environmental themes, but not much else.


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

            If you're under the age of, say, 40, it's difficult to really understand just how hard it used to be to find out about certain parts of the world, especially cultural details like folklore, mythology and mysticism, before the Internet. In the 90s, almost all of the average American media-based conception of South America could be summed up as "Columbian drug cartels/Amazon rainforest deforestation". If you were more politically oriented, you also were at least aware of the Shining Path, that there'd been a war between Argentina and the UK in the 80s, and Pinochet. You might've also heard of capoeira. And that was about it. The massive growth of global media and self-produced internet material has alleviated this a bit, but not entirely.
            Wouldn't some knowledge and stereotypes in regard to Mexico and Mexicans - possibly broadened to apply to all of South America and South Americans - also be present in the outlooks and beliefs of Americans in the 90s and before ?
            Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-05-2019, 04:54 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

              If you're under the age of, say, 40, it's difficult to really understand just how hard it used to be to find out about certain parts of the world, especially cultural details like folklore, mythology and mysticism, before the Internet. In the 90s, almost all of the average American media-based conception of South America could be summed up as "Columbian drug cartels/Amazon rainforest deforestation". If you were more politically oriented, you also were at least aware of the Shining Path, that there'd been a war between Argentina and the UK in the 80s, and Pinochet. You might've also heard of capoeira. And that was about it. The massive growth of global media and self-produced internet material has alleviated this a bit, but not entirely.

              The other issue is that when it comes to the level of gamer interest in regional settings, South America wasn't a popular as, say, East Asia (particularly Japan and China/Hong Kong). So, we got Rage Across the Amazon because the Amazon deforestation thing tied in so strongly to Werewolf's environmental themes, but not much else.

              For a South American in this age group as me it is something difficult to understand as well.

              I'm not saying how difficult it is for you to identify particularities about South America, I understand, this is the same as the Middle East for us in the 1990s. But Mexico and Central America are so close to you. We had one of our largest broadcasters half its full Mexican programming, all culture, history and politics produced throughout Latin America managed to cross and arrive here in great abundance so that it was very easy to read an Argentine author and not lacking rapid research on to Bolivia.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                Wouldn't some knowledge and stereotypes in regard to Mexico and Mexicans - possibly broadened to apply to apply to all of South America and South Americans - also be present in the outlooks and beliefs of Americans in the 90s and before ?
                As a latin-american, sometimes I wish WW had produced a lat-am sourcebook that was nothing but Chespirito characters and Sabado Gigante scenarios.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                  Wouldn't some knowledge and stereotypes in regard to Mexico and Mexicans - possibly broadened to apply to apply to all of South America and South Americans - also be present in the outlooks and beliefs of Americans in the 90s and before ?
                  On the one hand, yeah, people in the USA tend to assume all Latin Americans are Mexicans. That’s not great, but it is the closest neighbor and the largest Hispanic country, so understandable.

                  On the other hand, people in the USA tend to know very little even about Mexico, which is sad and unfortunate. It’s mostly silly caricatures and negative stereotypes, and that stuff creeps into games and other media too often. Especially considering that the USA has the second largest Hispanic population after Mexico.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Black Flag View Post

                    On the one hand, yeah, people in the USA tend to assume all Latin Americans are Mexicans. That’s not great, but it is the closest neighbor and the largest Hispanic country, so understandable.

                    On the other hand, people in the USA tend to know very little even about Mexico, which is sad and unfortunate. It’s mostly silly caricatures and negative stereotypes, and that stuff creeps into games and other media too often. Especially considering that the USA has the second largest Hispanic population after Mexico.

                    That's strange to me. As a Brazilian I always knew a lot more about Mexico than the American average that is close. And because we have a different language we are not well integrated with the rest of Latin America.

                    I never expected the books to bring forth that before Getúlio Vargas any text of a Brazilian Southerner was despised by a Brazilian northerner and vice versa, but to know that South America and Central America did not have a similar pre-European culture (and did not communicate according to some authors, others say it was scarce), that Brazil and Argentina have different languages and that our cultures are extremely different. (The Brazilian Intellectual Elite has always imported French ideals, which explains the strong spiritism here, the positivism of our flag and the policy until 1990 and post-structuralism in our schools) was common sense as we know that Iran's language is not Arabic and they are not Arabs.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Never underestimate the ability of our education system to foster a shocking degree of ignorance about the outside world. I have had teenaged students ask me 1) what part of Mexico Spain is in, 2) where Chinese people come from, and 3) whether people in Europe have technology like cars and toothbrushes.

                      It’s what happens when you have a country as big as this one that people seldom travel outside of, plus an education system that is mainly concerned with cultivating patriotism by making this country out to be the only place of importance in the whole world. (And, frankly, a lot of people here *don’t* know that Iranians aren’t Arabs. Or that Pakistanis or Afghans aren’t, judging by an argument I had once.)

                      With all that in mind, I’m actually kind of impressed by how worldly the old WoD stuff managed to be, with the lack of internet and all. Today people can learn what they want to, but they have to take the initiative and know what to look up.
                      Last edited by Black Flag; 01-06-2019, 02:26 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
                        (...) and 3) whether people in Europe have technology like cars and toothbrushes. (...)
                        Do they ask and assume anything similar about South America, Africa, and Asia ? Also, are all places in North America excluded from such viewpoints and attitudes ?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
                          Never underestimate the ability of our education system to foster a shocking degree of ignorance about the outside world. I have had teenaged students ask me 1) what part of Mexico Spain is in, 2) where Chinese people come from, and 3) whether people in Europe have technology like cars and toothbrushes.
                          It's not just about other countries. There was a comment I remember from 10 yrs ago about the average high school student thinking that Bill Clinton fought WW2 to free the slaves.

                          I think that there is a universal tendency for people to mistake what they see in TV and movies for real life. Not just foreign countries, but things like impressions people on the US coasts have about "flyover country" (and vice versa), London vs Northern England, various regions of Japan, northern Mexico vs Mexico City vs Yucatan, and so forth. (And it's an order of magnitude more so for the "foreign country" that is the past.) And these are places that share a language; not doing so just make it more so.


                          And the answers to the above questions should be:
                          1) the Iberian part
                          2) the stork
                          3) yes, but have yet to discover the airplane, traveling by Airbus instead


                          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

                            It's not just about other countries. There was a comment I remember from 10 yrs ago about the average high school student thinking that Bill Clinton fought WW2 to free the slaves.

                            I think that there is a universal tendency for people to mistake what they see in TV and movies for real life. Not just foreign countries, but things like impressions people on the US coasts have about "flyover country" (and vice versa), London vs Northern England, various regions of Japan, northern Mexico vs Mexico City vs Yucatan, and so forth. (And it's an order of magnitude more so for the "foreign country" that is the past.) And these are places that share a language; not doing so just make it more so.


                            And the answers to the above questions should be:
                            1) the Iberian part
                            2) the stork
                            3) yes, but have yet to discover the airplane, traveling by Airbus instead
                            Your comment reminds me about the one YouTube video where I saw what might possibly be the most ignorant person on America trying to convert someone to christianity and failing hilariously. Here's a link
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvVAV09-dQ8
                            Last edited by Pierrew; 01-10-2019, 07:43 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              There is some evidence to suggest that the western education system is deliberately designed so that the government funded schools for the masses produce minimally educated worker drones who won't compete with the privately educated children of the elite. YouTube, social media, and reality television tend to make me think this theory is more plausable.


                              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Back on topic, whenever there's a large gap (like there being comparatively little Mage information from China, that was later filled in a little bit), I kind of assume the area in question spends most of its time on internal questions. I'm curious if there were new texts outlining the nightfolk of the sub-continent whether:
                                1) Most of the activity would be internal
                                2) Some extant group would be a front or cover what was really a group from that area
                                3) New metaplot would suddenly have a group being involved

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X