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Mage Blood (Flaw) Inquiry

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  • Mage Blood (Flaw) Inquiry

    Ok so this flaw is worth 5 pts. And it states that your blood is so tied with magic that you are unable to use any discipline other than Thaumaturgy. And that while no path or ritual is barred to you. You may not gain any dots in any other discipline.

    How crippling is this flaw?
    Are there ways to turn this into a strength?

  • #2
    It's crippling if you want anything Thaumaturgy can't do. Mind you, it's an extremely versatile Discipline that can achieve a lot of things that the standard Disciplines can't, but on the flip side, there's a lot of stuff that it just doesn't cover. Just counting your in-Clan Tremere Disciplines, Dominate can be invaluable in dealing with mortals even for the lowliest vampire, and Auspex can be a useful tool for anything investigative. Beyond the in-Clan stuff, you're also losing access to what you could be learning from others, meaning that at the end of the day you'll never be as strong, fast, or durable as most others could be, and they'll have more common tricks up their sleeves that you could only guess at. Be ready to rely on your coterie.

    On the flipside of this, you're by default a specialist whose talents fit into a valuable niche. You're forced to advance your knowledge in an extremely profitable field, and you can collect the boons left and right. You're maybe even ahead of your peers in the Pyramid of equal age or generation by virtue of your extreme focus. While you're still a filthy Usurper, a Warlock that stole immortality, your value is more than apparent. Just find the least hostile people in the room and rope them in to help you.

    In short, Mage Blood is an absolute nightmare if you're shooting for diversity and don't want to rely on your party for everything outside of your wheelhouse, and an easy 5 points if you were already planning on building a specialist and are cool with taking that role while your friends cover your blindspots.


    • #3
      I actually use a watered down version of this flaw as my Tremere clan flaw in my house setting. They have no “in clan” disciplines, they can still learn any disciplines they want, but they are always out of clan, except thaumaturgy. I use the optional rule that out of clan disciplines can only be learned with a teacher who has that discipline as in clan and only after your character has drank at least one drought of the blood of a vampire who has that discipline native to their blood (to awaken the nascent power in your own blood).

      It Means the Tremere get low level blood bonds a lot as a clan, and have to trade a lot of boons to get the fancy outsider powers, it also means you have a pretty big obstacle in your path when it comes to learning disciplines, take a drink and find a teacher.

      Note that Thaum is still considered in clan for all Tremere and that all Tremere typically end up having a natural, blood born, affinity for it, though that doesn’t meant you’ll be any good at it.


      • #4
        I am just trying to see a silver lining to this flaw. Its an interesting concept and the Ready Made Character from V20 for Tremere actually has this flaw. So I was considering its use in a game. Honestly, I might even be tempted to see if one could initiate a new path to help replicate discipines, or find obscure paths of Thaumaturgy to help fill in those massive gaps in your capabilities.


        • #5
          As a ST who currently has a player with Mage Blood, I'll say this:

          It is pretty crippling for that character. He falls behind both in other disciplines, which are damn useful, as well as mundane skills, since all of his XP go towards that next, expensive dot in Thaumaturgy.

          However, for the player, it is a strength. He chose it specifically because it would be a challenging to roleplay a hamstrung character in the Tremere Clan.

          Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.


          • #6
            While I have not had the chance to take it in a game yet, it's a flaw I want to use and have given a lot of thought.

            How crippling is it?
            This question is far broader and more complex than it seems depending on a number of ST rulings, setting points, game types, among other considerations.
            • Accessibility of Paths - By far the biggest point that will determine how crippling the flaw will be. While the flaw doesn't inherently ban any Path or Ritual many STs have limits on what Paths are available.
              • Sources available - Thaumaturgy is a Discipline that grows in breadth as you are allowed to pull Paths from other sourcebooks. The more sourcebooks you have access to the less crippling the flaw will be.
              • Teachers required - Depends largely on how large your character's chantry is and how lenient your ST is in providing other teachers.
                • Teachers and what they want in return for their knowledge can make excellent plot hooks. This can be advantageous in getting the ST to provide them.
              • Thaumaturgy or Blood Magic? - The base implication is that Mage Blood is designed with Tremere in mind. However various Thaumaturgical and other Blood Magic traditions exist. Your ST might allow access to other clans or Disciplines to have this flaw or access to other powers (Rites of Blood offering the standardization of other Blood Magic into Thaumaturgy mechanics makes this more likely)
                • Any Blood Magic is accessible - By far the most lenient possibility and one that makes the flaw far less crippling.
                • Restricted to a particular school/tradition - It's mentioned that particular Paths are more common among a clan's thaumaturges. How crippling being restricted to a clan's Paths is depends largely on which tradition your character is restricted to and what sources are available like any blood mage.
                  • Hermetic Thaumaturgy - Tremere Thaumaturgy and barring other restrictions tends to be the least crippling because of number of Paths the Tremere co-opted in their focused study of their Discipline.
                  • Assamite Sorcery/Dur-An-Ki - If pre-V20 sources and alternate Path names are allowed this is about as crippling as Hermetic Thaumaturgy. Access to certain unique Paths and Rituals might make up for it as well.
                  • Setite Sorcery/Wanga/Akhu/Sadhana - If any of the Paths of the Setite traditions are available than it is less crippling. If you are restricted to a sub-branch (like only those Paths referenced as Akhu for example) then it is terribly crippling.
                  • Anarch Sorcery - If any of the four waves are open then its not very crippling. If your character is restricted to a particular wave then it becomes more crippling depending on the wave.
                    • Old Skool Sorcery - If spirits are broad and potent then this wave is less crippling. If spirits are weaker or less common then this is more crippling.
                    • New Age Blood Magic - With access to a number of useful Paths this wave is pretty non-crippling.
                    • Punk Sorcery - Unless the game is combat oriented this wave is the most crippling.
                    • Hacktivist Thaumaturgy - With some good paths less crippling.
                • Other Blood Magic clans can take the flaw but for their particular brand of Blood Magic.
                  • Necromancy (Giovanni, Cappadocians, Harbingers of Skulls, Kiasyd, Nagaraja)- Lacking the raw breadth of Thaumaturgy, Necromancy is still a large Discipline with a number of useful Rituals. Generally Sepulchre or Ash Paths are going to be key in covering the lost Disciplines.
                  • Koldunic Sorcery (Tzimisce, Old Clan/Dracul Tzimisce) - Even more than Thaumaturgy, Koldunic Sorcery benefits from additional source access. Rites of Blood introduces Koldunic Rituals, DAV20 introduces the Kraina, DAV20 Tome of Secrets introduces the Kraina Rites.
                  • Abyss Mysticism (Lasombra, Lasombra Antitribu, Angellis Ater, Kiasyd) - An unorthodox possibility but if DAV20 and DAV20 Tome of Secrets are available then this becomes far more viable. Your character will still be far behind the curve compared to other Blood Magic traditions however.
            • Accessibility of Rituals - Rituals are going to be the bread and butter of working around some of the lacking Disciplines that your character might normally make use of. Like Paths the effect it has depends on how restrictive the ST is.
              • XP Cost - In DAV20 and certain optional rules for V20, Rituals have a cost in XP. If this is the case then obviously the flaw is more crippling because you have an additional drain on your XP.
              • Time required to learn - Even if XP isn't required the rules are vague on how long it takes to learn a Ritual. The longer your ST rules it takes to learn, the more crippling the flaw.
              • Teachers required - As above with Paths.
            • Style of Game - Easy to gloss over but can have a significant impact on which Paths/Rituals you take as well as how crippling it is.
              • Pace - Because of Thaumaturgy's blood cost faster paced games will be more cause the flaw to be more crippling since there will be less time to recover the necessary blood to use your powers.
                • The same is true of learning Paths/Rituals, the faster the pace of the game the more crippling it is on your breadth of usefulness.
              • Themes - Some types of games lend themselves well to the more specialized and obscure Paths and Rituals than more straightforward
                • Combat Heavy - With Thaumaturgy's blood costs regular combat (especially without a chance to feed) can quickly deplete your character's resources and leave them with only their Attributes and Skills, while their companions still have passive effects of Potence, Celerity, Fortitude, or Discipline powers that do not call for blood (like Dominate).
                • Political Intrigue - While losing Auspex and Dominate hurts, if your access to Paths/Rituals is good you can get a lot of use out of some of the more obscure ones.
                • Thin Blood/High Generation - While the low blood pools in such games are a problem, the fact that your Dominate wouldn't affect most vampires (without first using Thaumaturgy Path of Blood 3 Blood of Potence) makes losing that somewhat of an issue.
                • Gritty Survival - By far the most crippling, if blood is hard to come by you lack the main resource to use your Paths and you won't have the time or mundane resources to enact your rituals.
              • XP Rate - Some STs hand out more XP for a higher power feel, others are tighter wanting either a more 'street level' feel or slower progression.
                • Low XP - Ironically this makes the flaw less crippling because you wouldn't have the XP to spend on a bunch of other Disciplines anyway.
                • Medium XP - Somewhat crippling but generally other players will have to choose whether they want a bunch of Disciplines or fleshing out their other stats.
                • High XP - While you'll have plenty XP for Paths, the other players will have the option to branch out into other Disciplines and your character might feel the weight of their flaw more.
                  • Rituals require XP - If you need to spend XP to acquire Rituals then this XP rate becomes much more favorable because of the additional drain you have.
              • Sect - Especially if teachers are required your character's sect can have a significant impact on what Paths/Rituals are available (and/or teachers to learn them from).
                • Camarilla
                  • Pre-Assamite Schism - You're left with what the Tremere in your chantry have until you reach a point where you have the clout to seek other cities and Tremere.
                    • If your character is in a big city with a large chantry with many teachers with a myriad of interests then the flaw is less crippling. On the flipside if your character is in a small town with a chantry that might only have one or two other Tremere then the flaw becomes stiflingly crippling.
                  • Post-Assamite Schism - Not only does this open up a whole other clan to possibly play but your Tremere might have the chance to learn Assamite Paths. Granted this is not a guarantee and there will likely be many questions but the fact that they are part of the Camarilla makes the chance to learn from them much better.
                • Sabbat - How crippling the flaw is depends on how easy access to other vampires/packs is, if its easy then its less crippling because you have a number of Thaumaturgical traditions to draw on (Serpents of the Light, Tremere Antitribu, Assamite Sorcerers)
                  • If other types of Blood Magic are allowed to be learned then the Sabbat becomes significantly less crippling because it opens up Necromancy (Harbingers of Skulls, Serpents of the Light) and Koldunic Sorcery (Tzimisce).
                • Independent - Any discussion of the Independents will vary heavily from clan to clan.
                  • Assamites - Basically treat them like Pre-Schism Camarilla Tremere.
                  • Giovanni - Necromancy lacks the breadth of use of Thaumaturgy but wraithly slaves can make up for that gap.
                  • Setites - Depending on how lenient your ST is in regards to what traditions of Setite Sorcery are available this can become one of the less crippling possibilities.
                  • Sadhana (Danava, Daitya, Ravnos, Salubri) - While not heavily fleshed out the more caste based system of vampires in India makes it more likely that Sadhana users have a broader scope of Paths and Rituals available.
                • Anarchs - Anarchs fall into a unique spot based largely on how broad your character's Anarch community is and whether your ST makes use of Rites of Blood. If they use Rites of Blood then the flaw becomes far less crippling because of possible access to any of the four waves of Anarch blood magic.

            Turning it into a strength
            The flaw focuses your character on a fairly specific train of thought. If you want to grow your supernatural power you are going to have to seek teachers or other sources of arcane lore. These can be excellent plot hooks and a useful way to get the coterie moving when things seem stalled out.
            • A smart player can try to leverage these hooks for access to more Paths and Rituals than their clan/chantry would provide.
            It can make your character more of a team-player. Since your character will lack some normally key Disciplines for dealing with problems they can end up relying on their coterie more than another clan or even normal Tremere. If your ST wants that kind of game this can be leveraged for access considerations.

            Some consider the Tremere one of the most powerful, if not most powerful clan. This flaw could be the deciding factor in being able to play a Tremere with an ST that is wary of the clan.
            • They have a built in system for protection and goals (the Pyramid)
            • They have a relatively tame weakness (a smart Tremere isn't drinking vitae)
            • They have three potent Disciplines (Auspex, Dominate, Thaumaturgy)
              • There are arguments that Thaumaturgy or Dominate are among the most powerful Disciplines.
            Advancement among the Tremere is based on Thaumaturgical skill as well as political and social acumen. With the flaw your character is focused on accruing what is considered the key to power within the clan. It could even be spun that your flaw is advantageous to the clan since your harder to distract from your Thaumaturgical studies, your character would make a very good Librarian in their chantry since all they can get are Paths and Rituals.

            Not all Paths and Rituals are created equally. Some are broader and/or more useful than others. Below I'm going to put a rating from one (*) to five (*****) stars for each Path, some Paths will receive additional discussion. Note that these are my opinions on the power level of Paths/Rituals.


            • Blood **
              • The loss of Dominate makes Blood of Potency much less useful.
            • Elemental Mastery ****
              • Wooden Tongues can cover some of the loss of Auspex's information gathering while Elemental Strength and Summon Elemental can cover the loss of access to combat Disciplines.
            • Green Path * (Urban Setting) *** (Rural Setting)
            • Hands of Destruction *
              • There are better Paths for doing damage.
            • Lure of Flames * (Combat light) *** (Combat heavy)
              • The increased difficulty to soak can be key to getting past higher Fortitude opponents.
            • Neptune's Might * (Landlocked/Desert setting) **** (Coastal/River setting)
              • If your in spot that has lots of water this can cover both the loss of Auspex (Eyes of the Sea) and Combat Disciplines (the other powers).
              • Level 5 Dehydrate ignores normal soak rules instead requiring a Stamina + Fortitude Difficulty 9 resistance roll.
            • Movement of the Mind ***
              • Creative use greatly increases this Path's effectiveness. Unlocking a door from the outside or typing on a keyboard are just a couple of ideas.
              • Pairs well with the Burning Blade Ritual to cover the loss of combat Disciplines.
            • Conjuring *****
              • Because nearly anything can be created with this power I personally consider it the most powerful Path available. It's applications are only as limited as your character's knowledge - Science and Technology are a must for a Conjuring user.
              • Chemistry note - Chlorine Trifluoride is an absolutely terrifying chemical that can make your ST wish you were just using Protean claws or Arms of Ahriman.
              • Scry and Die - Combine Conjuring to make explosives (in theory a character with a high enough Science and Technology can conjure the components to a nuclear device at the highest end of the scale), Scry to find and view the target location (like an enemy's haven), and Path of Praapti/Mercury/Teleportation to get in and out with little protective recourse and your character can easily eliminate hard targets.
            • Corruption ***
              • Clever uses can replace Dominate in a Tremere's repertoire.
              • Even a 1 dot dip just for Contradict can be useful for getting out of tough social situations like a cop asking tough questions.
            • Mars *
              • Level 2 Strike True is often a debuff unless you are attacking someone you know cannot dodge, block, or parry.
            • Technomancy ***
              • Remote Access/Telecommute turns your character into an expert Masquerade breach cleaner. That along with other clever uses can garner the character many boons as they collect or remove vital data.
            • Father's Vengeance *
              • The limiting factor of having to communicate directly to the target makes this Path much less useful.
            • Thaumaturgical Countermagic *
              • Because you need to have an equal or greater Countermagic rating to oppose a power this is less useful.
              • ST ruling note - Since it's described as a separate Discipline an ST might rule that the Mage Blood flaw precludes being able to take this.
            • Weather Control *
              • The lack of indoor use hurts this Path greatly.
              • This Path's rating rises to *** if you're playing in rural or pre-industrial revolution setting where outside activity is more common and boons might be accrued for guaranteeing good weather for an event (or ruining a rival's social gathering).
            • Assamite Sorcery
              • Awakening of the Steel *
                • Without Heightened Senses Level 4 Razor's Shield is much less useful.
            • Level 1
              • Bind the Accusing Tongue ****
                • Without Dominate this Ritual becomes a useful defensive measure for the character socially.
              • Blood Rush *
                • In a Gritty Survival style game this might rise to ** or *** since you'll need that blood for other uses and you don't want to frenzy in a bad spot.
              • Communicate with Kindred Sire * to *****
                • Depends heavily on how predisposed the character's sire is and how much Thaumaturgical knowledge they have. If their sire is a powerful Tremere with access to many Paths and Rituals they can teach over this Ritual then it's rating is much higher.
              • Defense of the Sacred Haven ****
                • You can't take Fortitude and sunlight is an easy source of aggravated damage.
              • Deflection of Wooden Doom *
                • Unless you expect to face knowledgeable enemies this Ritual is marginal at best. Rating improves in a game where hunters are common.
              • Devil's Touch ***
                • Without Dominate this becomes an easy way to deal with troublesome mortals.
              • Domino of Life *
              • Engaging the Vessel of Transference **
                • Without Dominate making covert blood bonds can be a possible replacement.
              • Illuminate the Trail of Prey *
                • The trail disappears when the target reaches their destination, rendering this Ritual woefully underwhelming.
              • Incantation of the Shepherd ***
                • Thaumaturgy requires blood to use so your character will need to feed often. Being able to quickly find a large herd could be key when time is tight.
              • Purity of Flesh *
              • Wake with Evening's Freshness ***
              • Widow's Spite *
                • Take Devil's Touch instead.
            • Level 2
              • Blood Walk **
                • Without Auspex this Ritual becomes much more useful for sussing out a vampire's agents.
              • Burning Blade *****
                • Basically Protean Claws as a Ritual and will generally serve as a newer vampire with this flaw's primary source of aggravated damage.
              • Donning the Mask of Shadows *****
                • Who needs Obfuscate?
              • Eyes of the Night Hawk **
                • Can be useful with the loss of Auspex and inability to gain Animalism
              • Machine Blitz **
                • Highly situational use only ** because it can shut down multiple firearms.
              • Principal Focus of Vitae Infusion *****
                • You need blood for your Thaumaturgy and this lets you stockpile. Whenever you have downtime or quiet periods you should be making these.
                • Ideas for items to make foci
                  • Tic Tacs/Breath Mints/Candy/Snack Foods - In most situations no one will question the character putting the focus in their mouth and their small enough to keep on your person.
                  • Pennies/Loose Change - A water cooler bottle full of pennies is an easily ignored store of hundreds to thousands of blood points.
                    • Marbles, Beads, Buttons, etc
                  • Legos - Not only is it a hobby to pass the time but complex models can have hundreds of blood points worth of pieces.
                  • Office supplies (paper clips, thumbtacks, post-it notes, computer paper) - An office storeroom becomes a vault of blood.
                  • Wallet items (low denomination notes, business cards, empty gift cards, etc) easily ignored items you can always keep on your person.
                • Combine with the Eat Food merit to have guests over and not worry about having to bring your meal back up since you can will what you ate to turn to blood points after you've finished an item.
              • Recure of the Homeland **
                • Without Fortitude the ability to more cheaply heal aggravated damage is useful.
              • Ward vs X **
                • 3 dice of lethal damage is just not enough to be of use, though it can put extra oomph on a weapon and nothing says it can't be combined with Burning Blade.
              • Warding Circle vs X ***
                • While the 3 bashing damage is laughable the fact that it blocks passage makes it a useful defensive tool for a vampire that lacks other defensive Disciplines.
            • Level 3
              • Clinging of the Insect *
                • Highly situational
              • Flesh of Fiery Touch *
                • There are better offensive and defensive Rituals, that don't require self-inflicting an aggravated wound.
              • Incorporeal Passage *****
                • It's easy to overlook that this Ritual makes the character invulnerable to physical attacks for the duration of the ritual which can be vital in some situations.
                • No enemy is truly safe since any fortification can be walked through.
                • Make a sealed room with no entrance that serves as the character's panic room or even their sleeping chamber.
              • Mirror of Second Sight ****
                • Without Auspex this becomes the primary way which the character can identify other supernaturals.
              • Pavis of Foul Presence ***
                • While ineffective against Majesty it's still useful for nullifying many of the more common social powers.
              • Sanguine Assistant *
                • The assistant just doesn't have the stats to justify the cost.
              • Shaft of Belated Quiescence **
                • Because of the time required for the tip to reach the heart this power is lower rated despite covering for lack of combat capability. Its rating is bolstered because it allows for the character to subdue vampire opponents without killing them (like Burning Blade would).
            • Level 4
              • Bone of Lies ***
                • Without Auspex this is the best way to pick out lies. Also useful for accruing boons since the Prince, Sheriff, and other vampire authorities can use its benefits.
              • Firewalker **
                • Its duration of an hour hurts its rating alot since your character will have to suspect danger ahead of time despite being a Fortitude stopgap. In combat heavy games I would raise its rating to *** or possibly **** during an Inquisition set game.
              • Heart of Stone **
                • The halving of social pools really hurts with the loss of Dominate but the resistance to Presence and other emotion powers helps offset the hit to its rating. In combat heavy games this could be rated as high as **** since Intimidation is unaffected.
              • Splinter Servant ***
                • While it may not stack with Shaft of Belated Quiescence it says nothing about not stacking with Burning Blade (though an ST might rule otherwise). If it does stack increase the rating to **** especially since neither says anything about limiting the number (Burning Blade only mentions that duration cannot be stacked not separate weapons).
            • Level 5
              • Blood Contract * to ***
                • Rating largely depends on how tightly the ST adheres to the wording that brings those who sign the contract into compliance by whatever means necessary. If the contract is properly ironclad then it serves as a useful Dominate replacement.
              • Enchant Talisman *****
                • This buffs all rolls made with the one Discipline you have, there is almost no reason not to craft one of these.
              • Escape to a True Friend ***
                • Remember that room mentioned in Incorporeal Passage? This is a great ritual to cast in there.
              • Paper Flesh ***
                • Pairs well with Burning Blade and Splinter Servant.

            V20 Rites of the Blood

            • Thaumaturgy Rituals
              • Level 1
                • Brand *
                • Chime of Unseen Spirits ***
                  • There are few ways to perceive non corporeal entities and as a level 1 Ritual with a long duration this is great.
                  • In a game where Necromancy or Spirit Thaumaturgy using foes are common increase its rating to *****.
                  • Pairs well with Mirror of Second Sight to see the detected entities.
                • Sigil of Authority **
                  • The penalty inflicted helps cover the loss of social Disciplines like Presence and Dominate though the resistance roll only requires a single success which is why it's not rated higher. Might be *** not sure.
              • Level 2
                • Eyes of Babel *
                  • Highly situational.
                • Preserve **
                  • Can be useful for gaining boons, especially from Toreador.
                • Seal Egress ***
                  • In many situations this is as good as or better than Warding Circle.
              • Level 3
                • Amulet of the Mnemosyne *
                • Dante's Urban Legend *
                  • The need to recreate the urban legend desired and the chance of attracting supernaturals or hunters hits the rating of this ritual hard.
                • Translocation of the Vessel **
                  • The rating is hurt by the need to draw a purified salt and blood circle. However the variety of items that can be linked mitigates that drawback somewhat.
              • Level 4
                • Preservation of the Sanguine Heart *
                  • Highly situational.
                • Summon the Blood Imp *
                  • The stats on the imp just aren't high enough to justify the effort.
                • Vigil of the Stone Guardian *
                  • When your only Discipline requires blood to use justifying a blood upkeep each night is tough.
              • Level 5
                • Mirror Prison ***
                  • Since the room created cannot be scried for targeted by Clairvoyance or similar powers it makes a safe spot for the character to work safely or rest. The sealed room mentioned in Incorporeal Passage would be a good place for a Mirror Prison used this way.
                • Sanctuary *
                  • A permanent Willpower dot is a high cost even with being able to block any entry and a slew of Disciplines, especially since your only Discipline runs off of Willpower. Your character is better off making a Mirror Prison.
                • Way of the Wendigo * (Humanity Vampire) ** (Non-Humanity Vampire)
                  • One of the few ways to quickly heal aggravated damage.
            • Anarch Rituals
              • Old Skool Rituals
                • Level 1
                  • Sanctify the Temple *****
                    • It improves the one Discipline you have, no reason to not keep this up in perpetuity.
                • Level 2
                  • Haruspicy ***
                    • A useful way to garner boons.
                    • Because it can be used through sympathetic links it can help replace Auspex.
                • Level 3
                  • Craft Dream Catcher *
                    • If the game features Necromancy, Spirit Manipulation, wraiths, or spirits as regular foes increase the rating to ***.
                • Level 4
                  • Houngan's Doll ***
                    • Useful scouting tool since it allows the character to see and hear what the target does.
                    • Very difficult to counter.
                • Level 5
                  • Skinwalker's Belt *
                    • Just take Eyes of the Night Hawk
              • New Age Rituals
                • Level 1
                  • Water Walking *
                    • Highly situational and major Masquerade issue
                • Level 2
                  • Blood Crystal *****
                    • Like Principal Focus of Vitae Infusion being able to stockpile blood when times are good is useful when your only Discipline needs blood. Being able to heal Herd/Retainers and blood bond makes up for the fact that it has to be a crystal.
                • Level 3
                  • Enfolding the Believers ****
                    • +1 die to Paths and Rituals per 5 targets is a pretty good trade when you really need something to work.
                    • Turbo OP Combo - As long as you can get an absurdly large number of people blood bound to you then get them to drink you can have an absurdly large bonus to your Path and Ritual die pools. Thankfully you have all those Blood Crystals you were dutifully stockpiling for a rainy day. For perspective both Cauldron of Blood and Dehydrate do aggravated damage per success.
                • Level 4
                  • Transcending the Barriers Through Love **
                    • You should have stockpiled blood but the emergency Willpower could be useful in a bind.
                • Level 5
                  • Pursuit of Apotheosis ***** *
                    • Yes you see that right, it's 6 stars, it's so overpowered it breaks the scale. A Ritual that grants free XP by sacrificing followers in a ritual tree that has a way to blood bond people from a distance is so ludicrously abuse-able I can barely believe it. And that's before any rumors of Generation reduction.
              • Punk Sorcery
                • Level 1
                  • Calling Card ****
                    • Useful for sending messages and reducing Difficulties on your one Discipline is really good.
                • Level 2
                  • Beat Your Way to Glory ***
                    • Odd requirements but its a Vicissitude like effect so could be useful as long as you can beat down a mortal.
                • Level 3
                  • BFU *
                    • There are other better rituals to debuff a foe.
                • Level 4
                  • Baron Zaraguin's Sting **
                    • Taking unsoakable lethal damage rolling what should be your best die pool seems like a recipe for disaster. The only thing keeping it off of * is the defenses it offers are really good.
                • Level 5
                  • Bloody Mary ***
                    • Only slightly awkward requirements but having a loyal servant with Potence and Fortitude for a month seems like a decent trade off.
              • Hacktivist Thaumaturgy
                • Level 1
                  • CCTV ***
                    • In an era of easily accessible drones and webcams this makes a rather technologically flavored variant of scry and die since you can target through the camera.
                    • Useful way to watch over and protect your haven.
                    • The sympathetic link created in the camera hurts the rating.
                • Level 2
                  • Self-Executing File ***
                    • Anything that allows you to stockpile resources and affect things from a distance is probably ripe for abuse.
                • Level 3
                  • Telecommunication ***
                    • A secure way to contact allies or monitor a location is always useful.
                • Level 4
                  • Non-Disclosure Clause ***
                    • Instantly putting eidetically known information into a target's head is a really useful tool. Rating hurt because it can't be used to raise abilities or Disciplines.
                • Level 5
                  • Ghost in the System ****
                    • Very open ended on what it can accomplish rewards creativity.
            • Assamite Sorcery Rituals
              • Level 1
                • Rite of Reclamation *
                  • Your character's plan should never be to die.
              • Level 2
                • Blade of Smoke and Shadow ***
                  • Incorporeal entities are notoriously hard to affect and this makes weapons even your characters allies can use. In games where such entities are common foes increase the rating to *****.
              • Level 3
                • Bound by Oath ***
                  • WoD is a game that rewards offense over defense and going first is a significant advantage.
            • Setite Sorcery Rituals
              • Level 1
                • The Word of the Dark God *
                  • Since it has no built in mechanical benefit it relies solely on ST ruling to determine its use.
                • Typhon's Brew ***
                  • Maintaining large numbers of ghouls is much easier and your character can use the extra muscle.
                  • Anything that lets you stockpile vitae is useful.
                  • Makes it easy to satisfy the Addiction flaw.
              • Level 2
                • To Lace with Hidden Nectar *
                  • Too costly for the benefit.
              • Level 3
                • Rings Like Chains ***
                  • Without Dominate being able to addict a target to something you can provide is a useful replacement tool.
                  • Makes vessels that can satisfy the Addiction flaw.
            • Inconnu Rituals
              • Level 2
                • Hidden Haven *
                  • A permanent Willpower dot is too high a price. Sanctuary offers better benefits.
              • Level 3
                • Father's Freedom *
                  • Your character shouldn't be bothering to undo diablerie.
              • Level 5
                • Warding Circle verses Technology ***
                  • So long as you don't use technology this neutralizes a number of threats.
            • Changed and Created Creatures
              • Level 5
                • At Our Command It Breathes **
                  • The high cost and time required keeps this from being rated higher.
                • Asymmetrical Reproduction **
                  • Would be rated higher if not for the long creation time and the short duration of mental function.
                • Creation of the Shabti ***
                  • The material costs keep the rating of this lower but the Physical attribute values offset some of that.
            • The Damned
              • Ritual of Summoning ***
                • As long as your character is willing to put in the time in researching and then wording their command they can get an outsized powered servant for a day.
            Secrets of the Blood
            • Thaumaturgy Paths
              • Mastery of the Mortal Shell **
                • The touch requirement for most powers hurts the rating on what could be a weaker Dominate replacement.
              • Focused Mind *****
                • All the powers of this Path are useful and it is one of the few ways to get extra actions outside Celerity.
              • Levinbolt *
                • There are better combat Paths.
              • Spirit Manipulation *** to *****
                • Rating depends on ST ruling how strong and common spirits are.
            • Thaumaturgy Rituals
              • Level 1
                • Blood Into Water *
                • Blood Mastery **
                  • Since it can't be stacked and only grants one success the rating is low.
                • Encrypt Missive ***
                • Impressive Visage ***
                  • Long duration and covering a weak point with the loss of Dominate gives this a higher rating than it might seem to warrant.
                • Learning the Mind Enslumbered *
                • Purify Blood *
                  • Generally too situational to be useful. Rating could rise to as high as *** in games where disease is an ever present concern.
                • Sanguineous Phial *****
                  • As with others anything that lets your character stockpile blood is useful.
                • Sense the Mystical **
              • Level 2
                • Craft Bloodstone * (Modern era) ** (Pre modern era)
                • Extinguish *****
                  • Without Fortitude fire is one of your character's big concerns. Being able to snuff bonfire or lesser fires with a word is a wildly useful defensive power.
                • Illusion of Peaceful Death *
                  • Weird requirements and needing to have half the original blood keeps it from being rated higher.
                • The Jinx ***
                  • This is a pretty solid curse.
                  • OP Combo Enfolding the Believers - Remember that absurdly large die pool? Here's a good use for it. Even elders will be easy prey when their next absurdly large number of rolls are failures.
                • Oinos of Dionysus ****
                  • Without Dominate this is the best way to wipe a mortals memory.
                • Whispers of the Ghost
                  • That's right 0 stars, breaking the scale the other way. Since your character cannot take Auspex Astral Projection this ritual is useless to your character.
              • Level 3
                • A Touch of Nightshade *
                  • Their are better curses.
                • The Bottled Voice *
                  • The permanent duration isn't enough to offset needing an immobilized victim.
                • Inscription *****
                  • As with many anything that allows stockpiling is powerful. There are plenty of solid level 1 and 2 rituals to stock up on.
                • Rutor's Hands *
                  • Five aggravated damage is way too high a price for a 1 hit servitor.
                • Soul of the Homunculus ***
                  • It's not too costly so it rates higher than many of the other creation rituals.
                • Transubstantiation of the Seven *
              • Level 4
                • The Curse Belated ***
                  • While locking away a precious blood point is problematic, a failsafe to save a valued servant is good enough of a tradeoff.
                • Track Transgressor *
                • Infirm Inert **
                  • The touch requirement hurts the rating but turning off blood healing is useful.
                • Innocence of the Child's Heart ***
                  • Hiding your Aura is normally an elder level power.
                • Mirror Walk ****
                  • Almost instantaneous movement is very useful.
                  • Combo - Make a series of sealed saferooms linked by these mirrors, preferably full of stockpiled resources.
                • Scry *****
                  • This is your big Auspex replacement and because of the duration it might be better.
                  • While you cant use powers through it, seeing a location or person can help use other powers.
                • Stolen Kisses **
                  • Without Dominate this can help with surreptitious feeding.
                • Unweave Ritual **
                  • Only being able to unweave rituals targeting yourself and they have to have an active duration hurts the rating. If Blood Mages are a common foe then the rating might be higher.
              • Level 5
                • Abandon the Fetters *****
                  • The blood bond is one of the biggest control abilities in vampire. Being able to negate that is very powerful.
                • Cobra's Favor **
                  • You shouldn't count on being bitten but the damage it deals is aggravated so its worth something.
                • Court of Hallowed Truth ***
                  • Bone of Lies over an area is good duration is a bit short.
                  • Combo Enfolding the Believers - Make a nigh permanent truth room.
                • Nectar of the Bitter Rose *
                • Severed Hand *
                  • If they've offended you this bad just kill them.
                • Stone of the True Form ****
                  • There are so many shape altering powers, many of which aid in combat, that this is a broad counter.
            • Anarch Rituals
              • Level 1
                • Flatline *
              • Level 2
                • Iron Body *****
                  • You can't take Fortitude so this ritual is your soak for the two big banes.
              • Level 3
                • Hell's Calling *
              • Level 4
                • Ward vs Vitae *
                  • If it were a warding circle it might be worthwhile
            • Dur-An-Ki Paths
              • The Hunter's Winds ****
                • Obfuscate replacement
              • The Evil Eye ****
                • Being able to be cast through an effigy raises the rating.
                • OP Combo Enfolding the Believers - Level 5 Eye That Wounds allows your character to deal absurdly large levels of aggravated damage through an effigy.
            • Dur-An-Ki Rituals
              • Level 1
                • Horoscope *****
                  • Learning secrets or increasing sympathetic strength in one ritual is really strong.
              • Level 2
                • Infusion of Kalif *
                  • There are better ways to boost your character's ability to use Thaumaturgy.
              • Level 3
                • Bull of Heaven ***
                  • Better version of Eyes of the Night Hawk
              • Level 4
                • Directing Ahriman's Lance ***
                  • Turning your skill in Thaumaturgy into difficulty reduction to kill a target is situational but powerful.
                  • OP Combo Enfolding the Believers - Do I even need to describe it at this point?
              • Level 5
                • Seeing With the Sky's Eyes ****
                  • Without Auspex this fills in vital gaps
            • Setite Sorcery Paths
              • Ushabti ****
                • Finally a creation power that's worth the time. Unfortunately the mortal interaction and leaving the haven clause hurt the rating.
              • Paapti/Teleportation/Mercury *****
                • Instantaneous transportation is one of the most powerful abilities. Add in Scry to ferret out locations and your enemies can almost never hide from your wrath.
                • Combo Scry and Die - See Conjuration above
              • The Flow of Ashe *****
                • One of the big weaknesses of the flawed character is their reliance on blood to fuel their Discipline. Level 4 Favor of the Orishas allows them to circumvent that.
            • Setite Sorcery Rituals
              • Level 1
                • Armor of Diamond Serenity *****
                  • Immunity to frenzy is nice but reducing difficulties of all Willpower rolls by -2 is super powerful since Thaumaturgy is a Willpower roll.
              • Level 2
                • Craft Gris-Gris ***
                  • Being permanent against mortals raises the rating on this one.
              • Level 3
                • Scorpion Sending ***
                  • Low cost and able to affect supernaturals puts this ahead of many other creation rituals.
              • Level 4
                • Dismemberment of Osiris **
                  • While the requirement is rough enough successes can annihilate an organization.
                  • OP Combo Enfolding the Believers - 100% won't be hard to hit now.
              • Level 5
                • Shackles of Blood ***
                  • Since the bond can transfer from a vessel to a vampire this can be a sneaky way to get around not having Dominate against vampires.
            • Dark Thaumaturgy Paths
              • The Fires of the Inferno ** (combat light) **** (combat heavy)
                • Better health level damage than Lure of Flames
              • Path of Phobos *
                • Take Evil Eye instead.
              • Taking of the Spirit *****
                • With all the ways to buff die pools and lower difficulties expanded on above there's a pretty good chance your character will strip the targets will entirely and have a nice zombie-like slave.
                • OP Combo Enfolding the Believers - Yup get all the zombies you could want.

            Last edited by Cynic01; 12-31-2018, 07:49 AM.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Zennis View Post
              I actually use a watered down version of this flaw as my Tremere clan flaw in my house setting. They have no “in clan” disciplines, they can still learn any disciplines they want, but they are always out of clan, except thaumaturgy. I use the optional rule that out of clan disciplines can only be learned with a teacher who has that discipline as in clan and only after your character has drank at least one drought of the blood of a vampire who has that discipline native to their blood (to awaken the nascent power in your own blood).

              It Means the Tremere get low level blood bonds a lot as a clan, and have to trade a lot of boons to get the fancy outsider powers, it also means you have a pretty big obstacle in your path when it comes to learning disciplines, take a drink and find a teacher.

              Note that Thaum is still considered in clan for all Tremere and that all Tremere typically end up having a natural, blood born, affinity for it, though that doesn’t meant you’ll be any good at it.
              Can the Tremere in your modified setting learn Physical Disciplines as in the canon setting, or are these Disciplines also limited ?


              • #8
                Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
                Can the Tremere in your modified setting learn Physical Disciplines as in the canon setting, or are these Disciplines also limited ?
                It depends on what the general rule is. If the general rule is you can’t even learn the physical disciplines without a teacher then the answer is that’s it’s the same for the Tremere, if the answer is that you can, then it’s the same for the Tremere.