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Wait, so you don't get any points for flaws?

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  • Wait, so you don't get any points for flaws?

    So you don't get any points for taking flaws in 5th?

  • #2
    No, all players have 7 points of backgrounds/merits and 2 points flaws as a fledgling and some more if you are older.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Little_Miss_ Serneholt View Post
      No, all players have 7 points of backgrounds/merits and 2 points flaws as a fledgling and some more if you are older.
      Is the default in V5 that a starting Fledgling player character has to take 2 points of Flaws ? Can she ( or he ) take none, less, or more points of Flaws than this ?
      Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-02-2019, 05:54 PM.

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      • #4
        Not from what I understand.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post
          Is the default in V5 that a starting Fledgling player character has to take 2 points of Flaws ? Can she ( or he ) take none, less, or more points of Flaws than this ?
          2 points is indeed standard. But considering how the definition of Flaws has broadened, it’s usually relatively simple to get those two points.
          (Also, certain predator types or other templates get extra flaws)

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          • #6
            So v5 mandates additional weaknesses outside of clan banes and such. Why does this feel like they are just stacking issues you need to manage on top of one another making this seem like bookkeeping the game.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Perpetr8r View Post
              So v5 mandates additional weaknesses outside of clan banes and such. Why does this feel like they are just stacking issues you need to manage on top of one another making this seem like bookkeeping the game.
              Oh, come on. Two points of flaws can mean "You're illiterate." Or "You can more easily be blood-bound". Or "Some subgroup hates you." Or "People know that you're supposed to be dead and your Haven is a dilapidated mess that looks like serial killer central - best not invite someone over."
              If that's your idea of bookkeeping, wait until you have to keep in mind that your character knows more than three other people.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Perpetr8r View Post
                So v5 mandates additional weaknesses outside of clan banes and such. Why does this feel like they are just stacking issues you need to manage on top of one another making this seem like bookkeeping the game.
                Because they provide fun story hooks and this isn’t just about superheroes with fangs? Whilst as a character flaws are frustrating as you never know when they’re going to “get in the way”, as a ST they’re gold dust.

                For example, in my chronicle a Gangrel character picked the flaw that was essentially “fear of white animals”. They decided to get rid of a body by feeding it to the alligator st the local zoo. I randomly decided to look at the website for that cities zoo, only to find out they house one of the few Albino Alligators in captivity.

                This flaw provided so much fun and interesting hooks, I can’t imagine the story or character without it.

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                • #9
                  It’s to get people to make characters with interesting problems that aren’t easily soluble. That’s very useful for a game that’s basically a character-driven soap opera. See also the relationship map and the expectation that you have at least five relationships, including positive and negative ones, to start. Or the need for a desire and ambition. Characters with no discernible problems or connections to the setting or long-term plans just aren’t as useful in setting up this kind of game.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cifer View Post
                    Oh, come on. Two points of flaws can mean "You're illiterate." Or "You can more easily be blood-bound". Or "Some subgroup hates you." Or "People know that you're supposed to be dead and your Haven is a dilapidated mess that looks like serial killer central - best not invite someone over."
                    If that's your idea of bookkeeping, wait until you have to keep in mind that your character knows more than three other people.
                    It's bookkeeping in the sense it's more things to concern yourself with that before you didn't have too. Vampire weaknesses, clan banes, mandatory flaws on top of the new hunger focus, the dealing with the society of the kindred, dealing with the mortal world, etc.

                    And if they are so arbitrary why mandate them? If it's about plot hooks why not let it be a Storyteller decision?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Perpetr8r View Post
                      It's bookkeeping in the sense it's more things to concern yourself with that before you didn't have too. Vampire weaknesses, clan banes, mandatory flaws on top of the new hunger focus, the dealing with the society of the kindred, dealing with the mortal world, etc.
                      So we're living in Interesting Times. But compared to previous editions, this actually feels slimmer to me. Flaws are categorized as one or two dots, so you'll always have one major or two minor flaws, compared to V20 where you could theoretically amass 7 one-dot flaws - now that was book-keeping.

                      Originally posted by Perpetr8r View Post
                      And if they are so arbitrary why mandate them? If it's about plot hooks why not let it be a Storyteller decision?
                      Why do you get seven points of Advantages? Why do you have nine Attributes instead of three? Why focus particularly on the Flaws?

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                      • #12
                        The one thing the ST doesn’t control is the character, they absolutely should define any flaws they have so they can decide why etc. If I were to suddenly tell one of my group “sorry, your more easily blood bound than the rest” they’d revolt! Especially considering all the crap I do throw at them in the name of a good story. The thing the ST does control is how often we make them central to the story. Some of them of course affect all rolls (not difficult to remember) but others are relevant only at certain times. As an ST, that time is whenever it feels relevant and is fun for the story. I really don’t see having a few extra things jotted down is that much of a chore to remember.

                        Also, bearing in mind the subject of this thread, would you have a problem with flaws if you got xp points for taking them? In the older systems, you could have up to 7points of flaws and no one is complaining about that. Imagine the extra notebooks we’d need to keep track of that!!!!!

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                        • #13
                          For some reason I can't quote two people.
                          I am not against flaws, in fact I use several to flesh out a character. I dislike any mandatory system that says someone HAS to have flaws when perhaps that doesn't work within their character concept.

                          I suggested the storyteller as hyperbole because of course the players would hate that.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Perpetr8r View Post
                            For some reason I can't quote two people.
                            Yeah, the forum software is... special. I just quote the first post, copy the text, then unquote it, quote the second and paste the first back in.

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                            • #15
                              So, Cifer, you're saying the clunkiness of the software is the forum's 2pts of flaw? It's annoying, but it makes something that's otherwise great more interesting to deal with?

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