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Noiad Koldunic Sorcery Concept

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  • Noiad Koldunic Sorcery Concept

    I am going to be working on a Noiad concept for a pbp game. And I was considering that with the spiritual focus on the Northern Lights, their belief in that being a sign of their gods, etc. That them believing in nature spirits really is not a far reach. And I was considering suggesting giving them access to learning Koldunic Sorcery because of this. Specifically they would know the paths of Wind, Water, and Spirit.

    Perhaps their own unique aspects into each of those such as instead of a water elemental they could summon a frost or snow elemental (Named Olaf of course). Perhaps their own unique path that focuses on the cold north (Way of Winter?) or their connection to the Northern Lights (Way of Signs?)

    The rough concept is a vampire who went into torpor recently woke and began to stir. As the Noiad had many Sami families under their thrall for generations and it was considered an honor to give blood to the Shamans it may be that an ancient line of 'priests' have cared for the resting spot of this vampire for the last few centuries while they slept. As repayment the shaman embraced one of their children as their childer. Sending this Childer out into the world after a few years of training to gather information on the way the world has changed specifically among the vampire culture.

  • #2
    Honestly I'd build a custom paradigm. Elemental ways don't really cover ...anything well. A cursory glance at Sami traditions would make heavy use of the Noaid's Animalism and Auspex with some touching on Spirits of both the living and the dead. I'd suggest Elemental mastery, Weather Control, Green Path, and ash path. WIth most of the spirit action being covered by Auspex.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you, for giving the Noiad some love. They are one of my favorite bloodlines. They are Tzimisce who remember what it is to be human. They are Gangrel who get that while vampires are part of nature, that doesn't just mean the snarling and the roaring. They are Ventrue who actually kind of give a damn about their herds... well, in the way an abusive parent loves their kids, anyway. They are Setites who try to shield their followers from the damage done by communing with the gods.

      I am usually not a fan of the recent insistence that every vampire group needs a Blood Sorcery style. ("Everybody look in your cawwwwffins! That's right! You get a spell, and you get a spell, and you get a spell! Everybody gets a spell!")

      In the case of the Noiad, however, it's a little unusual they don't have Blood Sorcery, given their supposed mystic ties to the land and the people. Koldunism is a reasonable way to model this, but there are other options.

      If I may throw in my two cents, here are a few ideas.

      The best fit is likely Old Skool Anarch Sorcery.

      What would the primary path be? I would run Spiritus as a path of blood sorcery, and the primary path. Its sometimes abusive ties to animal spirits fit the Noiad well.

      Old Skool has the following Paths: Elemental Mastery, Green Path, and Weather Control. Old Skool also has several paths that may not fit the Noiad well: Mars (Noiad aren't fans of direct assaults), Evil Eye (Noiad prefer carrots to sticks), and Necromancy (tbh, this just unlocks too much stuff for a style not grounded in death magic).

      I would add a few Paths:
      • Neptune's Might. Sami people don't just reindeer herd. They fish the many, many lakes of Sapmi.
      • Oneiromancy. A rough fit, but represents Noiad ability to get visions from the skies.
      • Spirit Manipulation or Spirit Thaumaturgy.
      • Transitus Velocitor. For the nomadic lifestyle.
      • Lure of Flames: Yeah, not thematic. Hear me out, though. Reskin the mechanics of the path for an icy blast path. Rename it "Fury of the Land" or somesuch.
      • Music of the Spheres: The Sami use a great deal of music in their traditional religion.
      • Whispers of the Heavens: This is a contender for primary path.
      Due to the rarity of the line, overall, and the lack of a center of learning for the style (cf Vienna, Alamut), I would greatly limit pcs in acquisition of new paths. The fact that some Noiad somewhere knows a path doesn't mean it is widely available. Same for rituals.

      A few useful online resources:
      • The Sami people themselves.
      • The religious figures the bloodline seems to have been inspired by.
      • Oh, and then there's this, about how the Sami may have invented Santa Claus.
      • A decent documentary on the topic.
      • Noiadi used drums and throat singing in their religion. Of course, there is a playlist.
      • And, drums.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
        Thank you, for giving the Noiad some love. They are one of my favorite bloodlines. They are Tzimisce who remember what it is to be human. They are Gangrel who get that while vampires are part of nature, that doesn't just mean the snarling and the roaring. They are Ventrue who actually kind of give a damn about their herds... well, in the way an abusive parent loves their kids, anyway. They are Setites who try to shield their followers from the damage done by communing with the gods.

        I am usually not a fan of the recent insistence that every vampire group needs a Blood Sorcery style. ("Everybody look in your cawwwwffins! That's right! You get a spell, and you get a spell, and you get a spell! Everybody gets a spell!&quot

        In the case of the Noiad, however, it's a little unusual they don't have Blood Sorcery, given their supposed mystic ties to the land and the people. Koldunism is a reasonable way to model this, but there are other options.

        If I may throw in my two cents, here are a few ideas.

        The best fit is likely https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Anarch_Sorcery"]Old Skool Anarch Sorcery. [/URL]

        What would the primary path be? I would run Spiritus as a path of blood sorcery, and the primary path. Its sometimes abusive ties to animal spirits fit the Noiad well.

        Old Skool has the following Paths: Elemental Mastery, Green Path, and Weather Control. Old Skool also has several paths that may not fit the Noiad well: Mars (Noiad aren't fans of direct assaults), Evil Eye (Noiad prefer carrots to sticks), and Necromancy (tbh, this just unlocks too much stuff for a style not grounded in death magic).

        I would add a few Paths:
        • Neptune's Might. Sami people don't just reindeer herd. They fish the many, many lakes of Sapmi.
        • Oneiromancy. A rough fit, but represents Noiad ability to get visions from the skies.
        • Spirit Manipulation or Spirit Thaumaturgy.
        • Transitus Velocitor. For the nomadic lifestyle.
        • Lure of Flames: Yeah, not thematic. Hear me out, though. Reskin the mechanics of the path for an icy blast path. Rename it "Fury of the Land" or somesuch.
        • Music of the Spheres: The Sami use a great deal of music in their traditional religion.
        • Whispers of the Heavens: This is a contender for primary path.
        Due to the rarity of the line, overall, and the lack of a center of learning for the style (cf Vienna, Alamut), I would greatly limit pcs in acquisition of new paths. The fact that some Noiad somewhere knows a path doesn't mean it is widely available. Same for rituals.

        A few useful online resources:
        I can't speak for the OP, but I'm pretty sure you just fixed the Noiad for my table. Thanks so much! I always get asked, especially for games that heavily include Scandinavia in the setting, if they're an option for players and I never knew what to do with them.


        “Nobody is purely good or purely evil. Most of us are in-between. There are moths that explore the day and butterflies that play at night.”
        - Suzy Kassem, Rise Up and Salute The Sun
        (She/Her)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
          Thank you, for giving the Noiad some love. They are one of my favorite bloodlines. They are Tzimisce who remember what it is to be human. They are Gangrel who get that while vampires are part of nature, that doesn't just mean the snarling and the roaring. They are Ventrue who actually kind of give a damn about their herds... well, in the way an abusive parent loves their kids, anyway. They are Setites who try to shield their followers from the damage done by communing with the gods.

          I am usually not a fan of the recent insistence that every vampire group needs a Blood Sorcery style. ("Everybody look in your cawwwwffins! That's right! You get a spell, and you get a spell, and you get a spell! Everybody gets a spell!")

          In the case of the Noiad, however, it's a little unusual they don't have Blood Sorcery, given their supposed mystic ties to the land and the people. Koldunism is a reasonable way to model this, but there are other options.

          If I may throw in my two cents, here are a few ideas.

          The best fit is likely Old Skool Anarch Sorcery.

          What would the primary path be? I would run Spiritus as a path of blood sorcery, and the primary path. Its sometimes abusive ties to animal spirits fit the Noiad well.

          Old Skool has the following Paths: Elemental Mastery, Green Path, and Weather Control. Old Skool also has several paths that may not fit the Noiad well: Mars (Noiad aren't fans of direct assaults), Evil Eye (Noiad prefer carrots to sticks), and Necromancy (tbh, this just unlocks too much stuff for a style not grounded in death magic).

          I would add a few Paths:
          • Neptune's Might. Sami people don't just reindeer herd. They fish the many, many lakes of Sapmi.
          • Oneiromancy. A rough fit, but represents Noiad ability to get visions from the skies.
          • Spirit Manipulation or Spirit Thaumaturgy.
          • Transitus Velocitor. For the nomadic lifestyle.
          • Lure of Flames: Yeah, not thematic. Hear me out, though. Reskin the mechanics of the path for an icy blast path. Rename it "Fury of the Land" or somesuch.
          • Music of the Spheres: The Sami use a great deal of music in their traditional religion.
          • Whispers of the Heavens: This is a contender for primary path.
          Due to the rarity of the line, overall, and the lack of a center of learning for the style (cf Vienna, Alamut), I would greatly limit pcs in acquisition of new paths. The fact that some Noiad somewhere knows a path doesn't mean it is widely available. Same for rituals.

          A few useful online resources:
          • The Sami people themselves.
          • The religious figures the bloodline seems to have been inspired by.
          • Oh, and then there's this, about how the Sami may have invented Santa Claus.
          • A decent documentary on the topic.
          • Noiadi used drums and throat singing in their religion. Of course, there is a playlist.
          • And, drums.
          This is an awesome take, I love it.
          I I agree with the Lure of Flames reskin, in fact that was the idea behind my suggested Way of Winter, a path focused specifically on the bitter cold. I imagined one of their early dots (1 or 2) being a power that lets them inflict a deep cold in their target, that bitter cold that you feel deep within your bones that makes you feel as if you will never be warm again.

          Comment


          • #6
            Personally I would use or make custom Koldunic Kraina for them rather than use the ways or Thaumaturgy Paths for their magic. It just takes a bit more work but the results would be a lot more thematic and suitable for the Noiad.

            Naturally YMMV but I think that the Kraina are the best way to represent Koldunism if you are unfamilar with them they were first introduced in V20DA and there are a few Kraina printed for the modern line in the Black Hand: A Guide to the Tal’Mahe’Ra.

            Comment


            • #7
              While I think Kraina are a much better fit for Koldunism than Elemental ways I don't feel the strong "tie to a particular place" is the position of the Noiad. They are tied to a people and are intermediares between man and nature. Remember too the Noiad have a nice setup for being shamans without having to go deep into blood magic. Much of what they do involved animals, prophecy(which could easily fall under auspex). I'd honestly give them few paths and many of them not particularly good at fighting other vampires vs helping hteir group survive.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lian View Post
                While I think Kraina are a much better fit for Koldunism than Elemental ways I don't feel the strong "tie to a particular place" is the position of the Noiad. They are tied to a people and are intermediares between man and nature. Remember too the Noiad have a nice setup for being shamans without having to go deep into blood magic. Much of what they do involved animals, prophecy(which could easily fall under auspex). I'd honestly give them few paths and many of them not particularly good at fighting other vampires vs helping hteir group survive.
                I think that is a very good point. Auspex gives them a lot of access to knowledge, Animalism does the same and allows them to deal with the herds, Protean allows them to hide from the sun by merging into the ground to allow them to hide anywhere the Sami travel.

                But the Kraina can cover massive areas, the Black Sea for example is 168,000 sq miles so if there is a Kraina for that region, then a Kraina for the Sami territory as a whole wouldn't be entirely out of the question.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Red Priest View Post
                  I think that is a very good point. Auspex gives them a lot of access to knowledge, Animalism does the same and allows them to deal with the herds, Protean allows them to hide from the sun by merging into the ground to allow them to hide anywhere the Sami travel.

                  But the Kraina can cover massive areas, the Black Sea for example is 168,000 sq miles so if there is a Kraina for that region, then a Kraina for the Sami territory as a whole wouldn't be entirely out of the question.

                  Yes and No? The two other uses of Koldunism are very much the type to take up extended connections to a particular place. The Tzim and the Lhiannan are prone to taking a particular territory and staying with it. Its why I don't see Noiad as KRaina users.. though I could see Sami Tzim As Kraina users.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lian

                    So, you say some Sami Tzimisce throat sing spell songs?

                    Good thing you said it. I don't think I could.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lian View Post


                      Yes and No? The two other uses of Koldunism are very much the type to take up extended connections to a particular place. The Tzim and the Lhiannan are prone to taking a particular territory and staying with it. Its why I don't see Noiad as KRaina users.. though I could see Sami Tzim As Kraina users.
                      Not a bad idea, but given how similar the areas they travel are, its mostly an icy tundra and frozen flows. So ice and cold work well as a theme.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Considering the Northernlights were thought by some Sami to be blood of the dead spread upon the sky and in general were associated with the dead and warranted respect I would say it could be a central aspect of a Noiad, or Sami Tzimisce, developed Kraina. Also as the Sami used sacred places and sacrificial stones, called Seida I think, so while they did travel they also had these specific locations of sacrifice which in some cases were assosiated with certain spirits or gods though they were not commonly dedicated to any specific deity, these places could be the spot where Sami Tzimisce were bound to and where the Noiad would have made their pacts with the spirits to learn the Kraina.

                        But yes Lian is correct in that many of the Sami Shamans, the Noaidi, mystical abilities are covered by Auspex, prophesy and astral travel with your free soul, Animalism, communing with nature, fortune at hunting and animal familiar, and Protean, ability to change into animals (wolves, bears and trouts are more common examples). And so they can work quite well without any blood magic at all. Personally though I’m still of the opinion that if some magic were to be given them it should be some specific Kraina, like Kraina of Guovssahasat that could be about blood, bloodletting, war, spirits of the dead Etc. Or rather have effects that draw on such inspirations as it was believed that the Lights could snatch hatless women away by catching them by their hair or inflict them with diseases Etc.

                        Curiously enough I have not heard much if anything about the Noaidi wielding any magic with ice and cold as their theme, rather more about spirit travel, animals (both spirit animals and actual animals), diseases and curing them, animal transformations and with prophesy and fortune telling rounding it up. So I would not give them, the Noiad bloodline, ice magic personally. The Kraina of Guovssahasat could full in on the areas Auspex, Animalism and Protean leave out like diseases, spirits and blood all associated with the Northern Lights in some form or another.

                        Naturally YMMV and this is just me throwing around ideas.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Where is that listed?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Noid and Tzimisce have access to Kuldonica sorcery opens a loophole not to be the only ones. Particularly it seems to me that Gangrel and Nosferatu (Baba Yaga) also have. And that Kuldonica Sorcery would be one of the four forms of Ancient Witchcraft, different from Taumartugia or Necromancy (Witchcraft / Discipline).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Red Priest View Post
                              Where is that listed?
                              Where is what listed? I am sorry to not understand the question, if you mean the Kraina of Guovssahasat that is something I just came up with and literally means Kraina of the Northern Lights with guovssahasat being the Sami word for them.

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