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Malkavians and other clans in the Anarchs

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  • CTPhipps
    started a topic Malkavians and other clans in the Anarchs

    Malkavians and other clans in the Anarchs

    An interesting thing in the Camarilla guidebook is they talk about how the Nosferatu and the Malkavian are completely in on the Camarilla. They're not in any place or possess any desire to defect to the Anarchs.

    I found this a weird element because you'd think the Anarchs would be indulated with Malkavians.

    They're after all, very much an anti-establishment clan.

    So, what do you think the various Clan's presence in the Anarchs should be like?

  • Murder-of-Crows
    replied
    In the Camarilla book, and the Gentleman's Gamer introduction videos to V5 it's clearly stated that the Malkavians in the Camarilla are more stable than their counterparts in other sects. Also, they need the Camarilla for protection, and they are aware that they do.

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  • Kael03
    replied
    The Malkavians are in the camarilla mostly for protection. They are not a centralized clan, and are unpredictably dangerous. The only way they could join the camarilla was to do something extreme to calm them down a bit, hence the Great Prank that removed dementation for dominate. The Camarilla's agreement for them this became a sort of "don't break the Masquerade and we'll keep you from becoming ash". Secretly, however, the Camarilla fear what would happen if the malkavian numbers dwindle. There are malkavians that believe if they keep embracing it will prevent Malkav from waking up, as they believe he is the madness network. And they preach that belief to any and everyone that will listen. While the camarilla hold to the point of "the Antediluvians don't exist", if they can keep the crazies in check they let them go about their business.

    The Sabbat, likewise, offers protection that Anarchs do not. The only difference is the Sabbat is brutal in nature so the Malkavians are more batshit crazy. But they are allowed to keep dementation because it is a scary ability for a pack to have.

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  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by Murdoc View Post
    One of the few things that is consistent about the Malkavians is that they are the least cohesive of all the clans. This should in theory lead to them being all over the place: some in the Camarilla, some in the Sabbat, some in the anarchs, some independent, in more or less equivalent numbers. But since so many do stick with the Camarilla, both during it's formation and with them sticking by them now (when other clans are leaving) would indicate to me some overall 'plan' by the collective consciousness (MMN/Malkav/etc.) that involves the Camarilla somehow. Think about it; when do the Malkavians ever agree on anything as a clan? They can't even agree on things like whether they are all insane, or if it's the other vampires that are insane, or all kindred are and they are just the only ones that admit it, or what others call 'insanity' they call 'wisdom', etc. So what few times they do agree on something or work together as a group, something big is usually going down. Sure, most of the individuals wouldn't have any idea about such a plan, and many would give different and even conflicting answers about it whether they do or not, but I think this relative consistency by the clan is the best evidence for that, and frankly that should probably quite frightening.
    I would be careful about attributing in regard to the Malkavians' membership in the Camarilla so much to their Clan culture, or to other factors related to being of the Clan Malkavian. The Malkavian membership in the Camarilla could very well be a product of circumstances, history, or decisions made by the influential and respected member of Clan Malkavian.

    Also - membership in the Sects is not a major commitment or significant matter for many Vampires. Like the Gangrel, many Malkavians might be in the Camarilla out of the convenience, habit, or due to knowing and interacting with Vampires who are in this Sect. Thus even if membership in the Camarilla ( or any Sect ) might, to an extent, be contrary to outlook and attitudes of a Vampire, she ( or he ) might still be a member.
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-25-2019, 05:23 AM.

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  • Murdoc
    replied
    One of the few things that is consistent about the Malkavians is that they are the least cohesive of all the clans. This should in theory lead to them being all over the place: some in the Camarilla, some in the Sabbat, some in the anarchs, some independent, in more or less equivalent numbers. But since so many do stick with the Camarilla, both during it's formation and with them sticking by them now (when other clans are leaving) would indicate to me some overall 'plan' by the collective consciousness (MMN/Malkav/etc.) that involves the Camarilla somehow. Think about it; when do the Malkavians ever agree on anything as a clan? They can't even agree on things like whether they are all insane, or if it's the other vampires that are insane, or all kindred are and they are just the only ones that admit it, or what others call 'insanity' they call 'wisdom', etc. So what few times they do agree on something or work together as a group, something big is usually going down. Sure, most of the individuals wouldn't have any idea about such a plan, and many would give different and even conflicting answers about it whether they do or not, but I think this relative consistency by the clan is the best evidence for that, and frankly that should probably quite frightening.

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  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
    The Malkavians as a group are more disruptive than anti-establishment, imho. Not to mention that speaking of the Malkavians in such overarching terms might be imprudent, considering how individualistic some may be due to the combination of their derangements and the clan's particular culture can be.
    I imagine that if some Malkavians are anti-establishment in Sects or other organizations and factions, then there is an element of being the loyal opposition to it.
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-13-2019, 01:11 PM.

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    The Malkavians as a group are more disruptive than anti-establishment, imho. Not to mention that speaking of the Malkavians in such overarching terms might be imprudent, considering how individualistic some may be due to the combination of their derangements and the clan's particular culture can be.

    Leave a comment:


  • El Barto
    replied
    Originally posted by Ideon View Post
    Besides, the real elders, ones that were elders during the last Inquisition, you'd think would know better. This sounds like it ought to have been their reaction to the Camarilla's restructuring:

    Elder 1: Inquisition's back.
    Elder 2: Damn. What's the plan this time?
    Elder 1: Cities are cutting off contact from each other, and we're cutting the younger, less desirable elements loose. Let them burn with the Anarchs while we wait it out.
    Elder 2: Isn't that what we tried last time?
    Elder 1: Quite.
    Elder 2: Remind me how that went for all of us.
    Elder 1: Almost half of our European population at the time was burned at the stake or died at the hands of rebellious childer turned anarch.
    Elder 2: ...
    Elder 1: Yep.
    Elder 2: I suddenly have the urge to pay a visit to Granddad's old tomb in Babylon. A nice long visit.
    Elder 1: Same. Meet you there?
    Cue the Gehenna Crusade

    Leave a comment:


  • Muad'Dib
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    An interesting thing in the Camarilla guidebook is they talk about how the Nosferatu and the Malkavian are completely in on the Camarilla. They're not in any place or possess any desire to defect to the Anarchs.

    I found this a weird element because you'd think the Anarchs would be indulated with Malkavians.

    They're after all, very much an anti-establishment clan.
    I haven't read the Clanbook ; but isn't it so that unusual approaches and obscure wisdom is found in many matters and circumstances other than disorder ; chaos is but one of many directions that can lead to seeing new perspectives and delving deeply into outlooks already known. Also - doesn't elaborate madness need the sane to thrive in regard to ? Perhaps these are some of the reasons why many Malkavians are members of the Camarilla .

    I do recall it being mentioned that Malkavians are often advisors to leaders and rulers among Vampires. And the Malkavians were part of a coalition - with the Ventrue and the Toreador - that ruled Rome for some amount of time back when the Roman Empire existed. Structured cooperation with other Vampires is certainly an approach that some Malkavians have opted for before.
    Last edited by Muad'Dib; 01-11-2019, 07:32 PM.

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  • Ideon
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    As an organisation, it would make sense to change the Camarilla to be more exclusive after the "Club" has started facing significant increased issues in the last few years.
    However since (most of?) the original founders are still around and just older/more set in their ways because there nearly a thousand years older; in that sense it doesn't work. This time frame is a blip that doesn't register as significant for elders of that era.

    *Unless there is more stuff in the background that hasn't been explicitly listed, which some have implied
    Besides, the real elders, ones that were elders during the last Inquisition, you'd think would know better. This sounds like it ought to have been their reaction to the Camarilla's restructuring:

    Elder 1: Inquisition's back.
    Elder 2: Damn. What's the plan this time?
    Elder 1: Cities are cutting off contact from each other, and we're cutting the younger, less desirable elements loose. Let them burn with the Anarchs while we wait it out.
    Elder 2: Isn't that what we tried last time?
    Elder 1: Quite.
    Elder 2: Remind me how that went for all of us.
    Elder 1: Almost half of our European population at the time was burned at the stake or died at the hands of rebellious childer turned anarch.
    Elder 2: ...
    Elder 1: Yep.
    Elder 2: I suddenly have the urge to pay a visit to Granddad's old tomb in Babylon. A nice long visit.
    Elder 1: Same. Meet you there?

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post

    But who get summoned, who is immune, who returns; and more importantly, who had enough contingencies that it doesn't matter?
    All things missing from the details, left to the imaginations of too many people that will never come to consensus.
    Mind you, I think it's supposed to be the ST so you can customize your games.

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  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Well the Beckoning means the Camarilla and Inner Council are going to be decapitated....and replaced with the younger Elders immediately under them.

    French revolution and Regency than Dark Ages.
    But who get summoned, who is immune, who returns; and more importantly, who had enough contingencies that it doesn't matter?
    All things missing from the details, left to the imaginations of too many people that will never come to consensus.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    As an organisation, it would make sense to change the Camarilla to be more exclusive after the "Club" has started facing significant increased issues in the last few years.
    However since (most of?) the original founders are still around and just older/more set in their ways because there nearly a thousand years older; in that sense it doesn't work. This time frame is a blip that doesn't register as significant for elders of that era.

    *Unless there is more stuff in the background that hasn't been explicitly listed, which some have implied
    Well the Beckoning means the Camarilla and Inner Council are going to be decapitated....and replaced with the younger Elders immediately under them.

    French revolution and Regency than Dark Ages.

    Leave a comment:


  • Illithid
    replied
    As an organisation, it would make sense to change the Camarilla to be more exclusive after the "Club" has started facing significant increased issues in the last few years.
    However since (most of?) the original founders are still around and just older/more set in their ways because there nearly a thousand years older; in that sense it doesn't work. This time frame is a blip that doesn't register as significant for elders of that era.

    *Unless there is more stuff in the background that hasn't been explicitly listed, which some have implied

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Ideon View Post
    A lot of Malkavians crave stability around them, since they themselves are such messes internally.

    Also, setting aside the closest thing to a clan consensus on the original Anarchs was 'a bunch of angry young Cainites pouring their faith into an empty sack', the Malks were one of the biggest supporters of the Cam and the Masquerade due to them being some of the biggest targets for Inquisitors (since broken minds in those days were basically assumed to be demon-possessed). I don't see either attitude shifting considerably even with the Cam being pointlessly regressive assholes in V5.
    Now now, they're very pointfully aggressive assholes.

    Leave a comment:

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