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Transylvania Chronicles, part 11: Colman's Mustard or Ghost Pepper Hot Sauce?

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  • Transylvania Chronicles, part 11: Colman's Mustard or Ghost Pepper Hot Sauce?

    Last post can be found here.

    So, after a seven-month hiatus brought on by lots of real-life stuff around the entire table, here we are. Current year's 1314, and in the downtime...

    The Inquisition went on the warpath. Most of the Arpad Ventrue bit the dust, and only Vencel Rikard and Nova are left to pick up the pieces. Vencel managed, barely, to maintain control over Buda-Pest, and Nova's up to Nova stuff. New decade, new set of Princes in the Seibenburgen, new round of Tzimisce and Gangrel Chow. Otto the Just settles in just fine in Sibiu, and a Tremere Prince of all Cainites consolidates power in Alba Iulia leaving Dragomir to stew in his own emo-ness.

    Brasov and the Burzenland at large, which had been the PC's former stronghold, turns into Inquisitor Central. Heavily-defensible city in an equally-defensible mountain pass, that's fertile and filled to the brim with Christians, which had been carefully cultivated for a century by a stable coterie of vampires who had to evacuate the city in a rush and left all their shit behind to be found and investigated? Yes please.

    Adding to the PC's woes was the downfall of their archenemy-turned-creditor and mentor, Vladimir Rustovich.

    The Promethean Brujah Prince of Schaasburg, who lost massive clout among the Prometheans due to his short-lived alliance with Nova, launches a master plan to betray and overthrow...himself...and implicate Nova. Naturally, he drug Ecaterina and her new pet Romuald (when she can wrangle him away from searching for Anezka) into this shitshow. Not only did this not work, but he got kicked out of his own city by the Mongols and fucked right off back to Scandinavia to plot his next move. Meanwhile, a coterie of Prometheans haul off and assassinate a prominent figure in the Society of Leopold, which triggers a whole new level of fuckery from the Inquisition.

    Oh, and Acre fell. Rumors abound there was a Tremere chantry in the city which was destroyed when the city fell, and the Cainite attackers were actually a mixed force of Assamites and Salubri warriors.

    The weather in Transylvania went to shit again, just like the last time a century earlier, right before Damek Ruthven threw down against Rustovich and Yorak over the disappearance of the Libram Terram. Also, something something Knights-Templar and a metric shitload of gold and religious artifacts.

    Which brings me to the PC's. The Ventrue and Giovanni PC's are no more, at least in the sense they're no longer PC's as the players wanted new characters. The Ventrue's player is now doing a Torrie, and the Giovanni's player is now doing an Assamite sorcerer. As for the characters, the Ventrue was recalled to be interrogated and brainwashed by Hardestadt after Operation Fuck Bulscu went tits-up, and the Giovanni accomplished his work in Transylvania and returned home to Venice.

    The rest was fairly typical downtime stuff, with special mention going to the two Gangrel PC's. The first decided to go on the Road of the Beast, and spent a few decades in animal form running with his pack and avoiding politics in general. This would be the same Gangrel who was initially supposed to be spying on the conspiracy from within, for Radu, but managed to dodge doing his job for decades between a combination of illiteracy and not knowing Animalism. The other Gangrel, the one who sired the koldun from the last story, sired a couple more times and rebuilt his ghoul retinue, and discovered none of them could learn Protean, nor did they develop animal features; they did, however, learn Vicissitude just fine but became territorial.

    Of everyone, the Lasombra PC took Radu up on his offer to haven in Bistritz, and that's where the game began...when Lucita sent him a missing page of the Libram Terram. It was the whole thing about the fire-flower, and the Lasombra PC sent missives to everyone to meet him in Bistritz and discuss the rousing of Kupala (again). Everything would have gone just fine, except for the aforementioned Gangrel who doesn't have Etiquette, Occult, or Politics for shit, and took it upon himself after spending a couple decades in animal form to kinda-sorta enter Radu's -- a Tzimisce, mind you -- domain without first introducing himself or requesting hospitality.

    Needless to say, Radu was pissed. But, allies are allies, and since the Lasombra did inform Radu first he was inviting his old coterie to speak with him, Radu was willing at least to let the matter slide for now, provided the Lasombra could hunt the Gangrel down and bring him to court for proper introduction and apology. Of course, considering this same Gangrel was derelict of sworn duty for decades, and absent Radu's influence, let matters in the Burzenland deteriorate to the point Vykos was able to manipulate them into a no-win scenario, Radu won't be forgetting the slight; he's just waiting for the right time to once again bring his grievances to the forefront.

    Meanwhile, literally everyone else in the party got in just fine. During their meeting with Radu, he brought up the subject a courier had brought a letter from Vykos, which he personally gave to the Lasombra. Which was, of course, the "repay the boon you owe me by escorting Goratrix to Ceoris (and hopefully committing Suicide by Tremere in the attempt)" letter. The Lasombra PC allowed Radu to read the letter, and Radu was more than happy to inform the PC's of the dangers surrounding Ceoris, and most of the backstory involving Vykos, the Tremere, and Goratrix personally. Radu was also happy to inform the PC's exactly how much of a sneaky little shit Vykos really is, that Radu considers him no ally at all, and Vykos acting thus would represent a large enough political misstep (sacrificing Rustovich's allies) Radu would finally be free to act directly against the younger Cainite from within his own clan.

    The meeting adjourned, and everyone went to sleep for the day. The following evening, Octavio showed up at the Lasombra PC's haven and delivered his next prophecy about the downfalls of a holy order and a mighty magus. The PC's started taking Octavio a bit more seriously in light of the previous evening's events, but could draw no further information from him.

    Last, Zelios showed up in Radu's court, and the Toreador PC (who had gained Radu's favor and was performing for him in court) managed to glean some information by at least watching their meeting. At least, the PC saw the two exchanging words, maps, and drawings, before Zelios left court. Afterwards, Zelios showed up at the Lasombra's haven to pay a social call, the matter of the geomantic web came up, and Zelios showed the Lasombra the map of the geomantic web and ley lines in Transylvania.

    It was the same map the Lasombra had seen the century prior, during their encounter hunting Baali. And, like the Baali then, Zelios' plan involved the binding of Kupala. Last, was the fact one of the final two runes to be carved was at the location the coterie had never been able to figure out before -- the rumored location of Scholomance, the mythical school of black magic and infernalism.

    Vykos' letter made mention of Scholomance. Specifically, it stated "Scholomance" was only a pseudonym used by the ignorant and superstitious, and that the real name of the school was...Ceoris. Two and two were added pretty quickly...and two, adding to the picture the Toreador PC, who saw Zelios give Radu a copy of his map. Meaning, Radu now possesses knowledge of Ceoris' true location.

    For once, the accidental bull in the china shop is a non-player character.

    Finally, the party was almost on their way, except for the goofy-ass exchange that led to the quote of the game session, which became the title of the thread. The PC's managed to reason out, that if Ceoris' location hadn't been found by now, it was because it was being closely guarded and the paths to it watched; ergo, all they really had to do was get Goratrix close enough to Ceoris the Tremere's own surveillance and spies would do the rest, thereby negating most of the risk associated with the very act. Meanwhile, the Tremere would owe them big enough to maybe normalize relations between themselves, the Tremere, and Ventrue, while also negating their debts to Vykos.

    Enter the other Gangrel, who at the time was the Lasombra's indebted servitor, and had since been released from the blood oath (but his debts not considered repaid). The Gangrel reasoned, as he didn't make the deal with Vykos, he doesn't owe Vykos, so why stick his neck out for Vykos' vendetta? The immediate answer being, they'd managed to piss off everyone in Transylvania at this point except for the Tzimisce, which meant the Tzimisce are the last people they want pissed off. During the course of negotiating with the Lasombra to consider his debt repaid, or at least paid down, the Lasombra player popped off out-of-character: "look, this is a giant turd sandwich and we're all taking a bite, the choice is do you want Colman's mustard with that or ghost pepper hot sauce?".

    So off they went. The trip to Timisoara went without incident, they arrived and fed, and met with Husayn who led them to Goratrix's staked body, and pulled out the stake. Goratrix popped up, and after feeding introduced himself and explained his situation as best he could, while obviously being wracked with pain and constant mental assault. At times, he seemed like he was talking to someone not in the room or to himself, his body moved of its own accord, his body language didn't match his words, and more often than not he would finish a sentence he never started, start a sentence without finishing it, or finish a sentence by directly contradicting what he just said, and the only thing that eased his suffering was to inexorably journey towards Ceoris.

    And, that is what they did. At least while moving, Goratrix had enough clarity and lucidity, and his pain eased enough, to have a conversation. Finally, Goratrix recognized the Lasombra PC's name, and said "Vykos sent to escort me the one vampire in all the world, that has the one book in all the world, I spent nearly a century searching for, which I could use to destroy the true founder of my clan?" before growing a truly wicked, disconcerting grin, and baring his fangs.

    ...and the end to that conversation comes in two weeks' time.

  • #2
    Now, behind the scenes notes...

    First things first, veterans of TC may find themselves asking, "what the fuck up is with Goratrix, here?". I'm playing up the mental conflict between him and Saulot as much as I can, both to emphasize the tragedy of the moment while making it clear he is fighting an Antediluvian to the fullest of his will, and despite being the fourth mightiest vampire with whom they've had contact thus far (behind Montano in the Lasombra's case, Yorak and the Eldest itself for everyone) and a sorcerer of near-unparalleled might, he doesn't stand a chance. He keeps trying to tell the PC's things of dire consequence, but any deviation from his set course leads to a renewed psychic assault, as does any attempt to inform the PC's of things Saulot doesn't want told.

    What Goratrix isn't doing, yet, is trying to plead, beg, or bargain with the characters. I'm drawing a little inspiration from the Kubler-Ross model of grief for guidance on how to portray him. He is, after all, being mentally compelled to death march himself straight to Ceoris. As of yet, he's fluctuating between denial and anger, with shades of bargaining when he thinks he might be able to come out with the upper hand.

    That is, when I'm portraying Goratrix. There's a second vampire running around in his head, after all -- one that was kicked out of his own body shortly after his ultimately failed attempt to diablerize Saulot. The one actually responsible for the botched attempt to weaponize the Knights-Templar. That vampire is a lot cooler of an operator, nakedly dismissive and hostile towards the party, more capable of resisting Saulot's mental assault, and not trying to figure out how to avoid Saulot so much as how to confront it...and win. So far, Tremere's managed to surface twice...and the end of the game session with faced with the prospect of harnessing the geomantic web and Libram Terram for his own ends, and an earlier moment when one of the two Gangrel decided to smirk during one of Goratrix's psychic assaults, and "Goratrix" decided to start goading him into frenzy to have an excuse to destroy him, while Goratrix's hands surreptitiously activated Purge the Inner Demon to prevent that from happening.

    The players or characters don't have the full picture yet, but they know something's up.

    Now, the rest of this story is going to play out differently than as published, all stemming from something I noticed when I played TC as a Tremere. It's not easy to notice, but there is a monstrous plot hole in the books as published. The journey with Goratrix is from Timisoara to Alceditz, which according to the map is south of...Alba Iulia. Otherwise known as "where the party has to go to carve the final rune at the end of the story". From there, the Olt flows almost directly south and past Alceditz, meaning going through this city is literally the fastest route between origin and destination.

    The only way to avoid Alba Iulia is to go a much longer and dangerous route, south around the Transylvanian Alps, then follow the Olt River upstream to Alceditz, at least according to the damn maps WW published in the same damn book. Which is what I guess the story's authors had in mind, and never considered the possibility PC's would want to kill two birds with one stone and simply hit up Alba Iulia on their way to Ceoris?

    Or at least in my case, hit up Alba Iulia on the way to Ceoris, and while there sabotage the rune to allow Goratrix (and only Goratrix) to tap directly into the geomantic web, so he can harness Kupala's full might and fight back against Saulot. Which is what I did, the result being Goratrix was able to flee Ceoris and go on to found House Goratrix as metaplot dictated anyway. One thing my old ST was fond of, was "it happens anyway, but you're why this happened the way it did in the metaplot".

    But, I digress. The PC's won't be making it to Alceditz or Ceoris. Alba Iulia has a Tremere Prince, and while Vykos wants them to merrily jaunt their way to their own Final Deaths at Ceoris' footsteps, the PC's are going to figure out in short order all they really need to do is get Goratrix to Alba Iulia.

    Not that this is any more preferable of an option. Alba Iulia is the seat of the Diocese of Transylvania, after all. It's where the Promethean coterie (which included several of the PC's sires) whacked the Society of Leopold leader, triggering the massive Inquisition backlash in Transylvania. That's why there's a Tremere Prince in the city, and this particular Tremere is the same elder who was in negotiation with the PC's to establish a chantry in Brasov -- he's a vizier and bureaucrat, ultra-conservative and exceptionally strict when it comes to enforcing the Silence of the Blood, and most importantly he has all the bureaucratic rituals and paths available to Tremere. He's capable of wielding the Inquisition's greatest weapon, modern bureaucracy, against them, and for that reason can maintain control of a city right underneath their grasp.

    As luck would have it, the Lasombra PC was approached during the downtime with an invitation to join Amici Noctis, with his test being to discover exactly how the Tremere have been able to manipulate the Inquisition when the Lasombra failed, which caused in part the entire mess with the Inquisition in the first place. The issues with the Knights-Templar being something of a red herring -- the clan's elders already know of this. Of what they're ignorant, is the Inquisition's bureaucracy and how the Tremere are manipulating that via blood sorcery to achieve their collective ends. Whether or not the player or his character can figure this out is up to him, but the opportunity to get to the bottom of it and earn his place in the Amici is there.

    So, Alba Iulia will be the site of the story's final act, not Alceditz. I haven't completely nailed down how the ark will fit into all of it, save that it will show up, but I have decided the potential encounter leading to the Council's appearance will be with Inquisitors (and their mortal mage supporters), not Crusaders. For the most part I plan to not plan it at all, just set up the chessboard, and let the players play it out as they will. Either way, "Goratrix's" goal is clear: complete the geomantic web and tap into it to destroy Saulot once and for all. It is, after all, what he's been planning all along which is why the PC's ended up on the Tremere's shit list over that stupid book in the first place.

    One potential outcome I've considered, is the notion of a full-blown Antediluvian fight happening in the streets which prompts the Inquisition to deploy the Ark to put a stop to it. But, considering I did that back in the 1220's upon which the PC's were only on the far periphery and nearly died anyway, and plan for one in the 1400's during which the PC's will be in the epicenter, I'm going to avoid that scenario by any means possible.
    Last edited by Theodrim; 01-13-2019, 12:22 PM.

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    • #3
      Of greater concern is the transition of the Ventrue's and Giovanni's players to new characters, which has bigger implications for the chronicle than I'd prefer to deal with. It's a group table and the players will play who they want, so I won't stop them from switching characters, but on the other hand...what a fucking massive headache.

      Of the two, the Ventrue's disappearance will be the easier to deal with. I had already planned for her absence during the downtime, and a bit of a one-off where she handled her interrogation and reconditioning by Hardestadt. Hardestadt's issue with Operation Fuck Bulscu was that they were caught and that the Eastern Lords lost face over it, not that it happened or even succeeded, as the chips fell in Hardestadt's favor. Jurgen was, after all, a dutiful childe, albeit one with greater ambition and independence than could be easily controlled. And, the Ventrue PC did succeed in her job, quite competently in fact, while also managing to secure the confidence of some of the Ventrue's greatest enemies through acts of rebellion; that's a level of competence and wile Hardestadt isn't going to simply discard, regardless of the impertinence of her sire.

      Instead, Hardestadt recalled her to his castle, interrogated her and punished her by performing menial and humiliating tasks around the place...then slowly conditioning her at the end of the night, and wiping her memories of the previous evening so that she believed she'd only just arrived. The Ventrue Groundhog Day scenario would last for approximately forty years, during which time she would have been completely blood bound, conditioned, and re-educated to suit Hardestadt's needs, all while Hardestadt pulled strings with Jervais and other Tremere associates to have her stained reputation wiped clean, so that she could return to good upstanding Ventrue society as a perfectly pliant pawn.

      Except, I was planning for her to have an out. As I mentioned in previous posts on the topic, the advent of the Ventrue antitribu is well underway with the truth of Eigermann's continued existence revealed and young Ventrue, especially surviving Magyar Ventrue, quietly flocking to the Knights of Blood's cause. Gephardt, one of the former Princes of the Burzenland, has disappeared and is quietly building an alternate identity by the name of Gustav Mallenhous, and his cause of revealing and defeating the Secret Masters has been newly reinforced by Lucretia and other Knights of the Black Cross who forsook their vows after Jurgen's death.

      What was to happen, was Gephardt, Lucretia, and other Knights of the Blood would have busted the Ventrue PC out, and offered her a chance to join their cause while searching for a way to break the blood oaths and conditioning of which they all suffer, freeing their minds of the Masters' influence once and for all. This would have culminated in their discovery of a Salubri methuselah (I was planning on it being Ithuriel) in torpor who the Ventrue rebels planned to diablerize, but instead the methuselah would have risen, shared their blood, and employed Valeren on them to break the blood oath and cleanse their minds. This would have been the first practice of the rite later to become known as the Prayer to St. Gustav, which means those who participated would lose Presence as a clan discipline in favor of Auspex. Those who participated in the original ritual would have also gained the ability to learn (warrior) Valeren, albeit at out-of-clan cost, but also gained a hatred of the Tremere for obvious reasons.

      Then I was planning for the big "do you join the Anarch Revolt?" story to occur in 1394, when the PC's would have been invited to attend Hardestadt's big party, either on his behest or Tyler's. Well, so much for that entire plot arc. At least I have other plans on which I can fall back, focusing more on how the Promethean-Insabbatati alliance evolves over the next century to blossom into the Anarch Revolt.

      Then, the Giovanni PC. Oh boy howdy, did this player's choice fuck me, and fuck me hard. The Giovanni PC was the one who fucked everybody by being Vykos' informant and patsy the whole time, and set them down this path of screwing over the Ventrue and Tremere to ally with the Tzimisce in the first place. It's not as if the PC's had much of a choice thanks to Vykos' manipulations, but on the other hand if Vykos didn't have the information he did thanks to the Giovanni, Vykos would never have been able to act so effectively as he did. Getting this PC out of the group was probably for the best in the long term, especially as it establishes another antagonist for the coterie once Vykos' true intent and motives are fully revealed, and I can't blame the player especially as he's enjoying the prospect of playing an Assamite sorcerer much more.

      But, all the same, I spent days' worth of time rewriting the Last Cappadocian story and planning material to foreshadow and lead up to it, specifically to accommodate this one character and include a set of choices that, if seen to the end, just might have had him betraying the Giovanni once and for all to become a Harbinger. Especially as it would have intertwined that character's story and that of the Lasombra's, as the Lasombra's sire is a Baali apostate and member of the Order of Moloch.

      See, what I had planned was this Giovanni character was Ambrogino's great(?)-grandchilde, and the PC was taking his marching orders from Gino. Gino wanted to know what was up with Transylvania's fucky Shadowlands (hint, it's Kupala). When the PC got in bed with Vykos, an act of which Gino thoroughly approved, the PC would have ended up on Constancia's watch list and she would have warned him both Cainites are Really Fucking Bad News, and to Stay the Fuck Away. What would have happened next would have been up to the player, but ideally (and if he knew what was good for him) he'd heed Constancia's warnings and distance himself from both Gino and Vykos at the cost of some good faith with the Giovanni.

      Either way the deeds of immediate import were done, and he probably would have been on thin ice with the rest of the PC's for a century or two, during which the Anarch Revolt happens and Uncle Augie noms on Daddy Cap. So, enter the Last Cappadocian story. Remember, Maria Ascuncion was Camden's childe, and in turn Constancia's grandchilde. If the Giovanni PC had sided with Constancia, Maria's appearance before the PC's would have been absolutely no coincidence at all. Thus, Ansen and Gino would not have been the only major players to attend the "who kills Maria?" party; also appearing would have been Japheth (masquerading as the Capuchin), and in the shadows the Lasombra's sire acting directly on Sahar-Hanibaal's behalf.

      Gino wants her dead, for obvious reasons, but Ansen would want her faith broken and for her to be converted to Baali, because Ansen believes the Gehenna prophecy is about her innocence, not her unlife; he would, of course, attempt to sell this to the party as a way out to ensure her survival and avert Gehenna. Meanwhile, Japheth would be there to offer a real way out: take Maria to the Shadowlands where she can join the rest of her clan's survivors far beyond the reach of Gino, or any other Giovanni for that matter. Which means Maria would be destined to lose her faith and become a Harbinger, fulfilling the prophecy anyway...not exactly something Japheth is going to advertise, of course. Faustina, the Lasombra's sire, is there to influence the party away from Ansen's solution by any means necessary as Ansen is Nergali, not Molochim, and while the sign is destined to come to pass they can at least act to mitigate its consequences.

      My biggest gripe with this particular story, even though I begrudgingly acknowledge its necessity, is there's no real way to save Maria and the possibility is an "well, if the players come up with a plan and beat every odd stacked against them to somehow pull it off, it doesn't matter since the Gehenna sign is really about her perceived Final Death". Thus, I rewrote the story from the ground up to accommodate the possibility of her survival, that being less of an issue overall as the Gehenna prophecy is about lost innocence as opposed to semantics custom-tailored to keep the chronicle on the rails, and putting the dramatic focus on how the Gehenna prophecy is fulfilled and how that informs and develops the characters' morality.

      So, now I have three centuries' worth of planned material I can no longer use, and I have to figure out a way to salvage what I did do with the Last Cappadocian story and work with what I now have.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
        My biggest gripe with this particular story, even though I begrudgingly acknowledge its necessity, is there's no real way to save Maria and the possibility is an "well, if the players come up with a plan and beat every odd stacked against them to somehow pull it off, it doesn't matter since the Gehenna sign is really about her perceived Final Death". Thus, I rewrote the story from the ground up to accommodate the possibility of her survival, that being less of an issue overall as the Gehenna prophecy is about lost innocence as opposed to semantics custom-tailored to keep the chronicle on the rails, and putting the dramatic focus on how the Gehenna prophecy is fulfilled and how that informs and develops the characters' morality.

        So, now I have three centuries' worth of planned material I can no longer use, and I have to figure out a way to salvage what I did do with the Last Cappadocian story and work with what I now have.
        Run it like that anyway, have the Giovanni ex-PC become Baali and be one of the wolves on Maria's tail

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Illithid View Post
          Run it like that anyway, have the Giovanni ex-PC become Baali and be one of the wolves on Maria's tail
          It's not quite befitting the character to join the Baali. During the one story featuring them, he was pretty anti-Baali and -infernalist in general, and considering the character's Road (Bones, formerly Merchant) it's not really within the character's ethics to sell his own soul...or anyone else's, really, for that matter. What I've considered doing instead, is having him come along with Gino to provide his introduction and vouch for his impeccable character.

          But, that in itself isn't the problem. Bringing Constancia, and later Japheth, into the story and making it all fit cohesively are. One could make an argument the party in general are low-key on Constancia's watch list due to their alliance with Vykos, but on the other hand they're strongly allied with Lucita (who Constancia loathes for some reason I've never been able to learn) and Anatole (who Constancia likes). Which is already two marks against, one for, the Cappadocian engaging the characters, minus another one as none of them are of her own clan.

          What I might do instead, is have Constancia pay the characters a visit care of Radu at the end of this story, having her provide the "Vykos was behind it all" revelation rather than Etrius. I've already established there's no love lost between Radu and Vykos, and it's an easy leap of logic to assume Constancia reached out to him at some point in the past century. With the PC's looking like they might join Team Fuck Vykos after this debacle, provided they survive Radu would be more than happy to facilitate a meet-and-greet...just, overlook the implication Radu invited a necromancer to this, after the PC's went on a suicide mission and all.

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          • #6
            Glad to see these back. The level of detail you put in is inspiring.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

              It's not quite befitting the character to join the Baali. During the one story featuring them, he was pretty anti-Baali and -infernalist in general, and considering the character's Road (Bones, formerly Merchant) it's not really within the character's ethics to sell his own soul...or anyone else's, really, for that matter. What I've considered doing instead, is having him come along with Gino to provide his introduction and vouch for his impeccable character.

              But, that in itself isn't the problem. Bringing Constancia, and later Japheth, into the story and making it all fit cohesively are. One could make an argument the party in general are low-key on Constancia's watch list due to their alliance with Vykos, but on the other hand they're strongly allied with Lucita (who Constancia loathes for some reason I've never been able to learn)
              Family connection to Monçada, the Angelis Atter and through them the Baali? Kindred don't haave to be fair in their assessment of every person they know...

              Unfortunately, no great ideas to bring in relation to the Last Cappadocian storyline. In fact there are a few things in most of my chronicles - like one or two Cappadocians that went in Torpor before or only a little after the Giovanni purge coming back in the 19th, 20th or 21st centuries (and making childer), or Constancia being the true face Capuchin (and sire of Ambrogino) instead - that would make your particular take somewhat counter-intuitive to my usual fare, to say the least.
              Last edited by Baaldam; 02-11-2019, 12:37 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                Family connection to Monçada, the Angelis Atter and through them the Baali? Kindred don't haave to be fair in their assessment of every person they know...
                Well, it's more that I'm not sure if Lucita canonically did something to piss her off, and I don't want to miss a potential plot point, introduce an unaccountable plot hole, or do something to dramatically contradict metaplot (just yet). The only thing I can figure, it's because Constancia loves her some Anatole, but Anatole and Lucita are always diving headfirst into extremely dangerous shit they may not always fully understand.

                If it comes up at all in the game (which I may just work in, to inject some humor) I don't plan on it being a case of jealousy over Anatole, since I feel that's reductive to Constancia's character. I feel it best served by being one of those multi-layered enmities that feed off and exacerbate each other in a constant downward spiral, manifesting itself in a truly historic "bitch eating crackers" scenario. Superficially, she fears Lucita is going to do something stupid and get Anatole killed (and she'll miss out), but on the deeper level she's jealous Lucita gets to cowboy around the Dark Medieval relatively free of responsibility and consequence, while Constancia's stuck being a luminary elder and pillar of her clan for whom everything has to be some matter of great consequence and import.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

                  Well, it's more that I'm not sure if Lucita canonically did something to piss her off, and I don't want to miss a potential plot point, introduce an unaccountable plot hole, or do something to dramatically contradict metaplot (just yet). The only thing I can figure, it's because Constancia loves her some Anatole, but Anatole and Lucita are always diving headfirst into extremely dangerous shit they may not always fully understand.

                  If it comes up at all in the game (which I may just work in, to inject some humor) I don't plan on it being a case of jealousy over Anatole, since I feel that's reductive to Constancia's character. I feel it best served by being one of those multi-layered enmities that feed off and exacerbate each other in a constant downward spiral, manifesting itself in a truly historic "bitch eating crackers" scenario. Superficially, she fears Lucita is going to do something stupid and get Anatole killed (and she'll miss out), but on the deeper level she's jealous Lucita gets to cowboy around the Dark Medieval relatively free of responsibility and consequence, while Constancia's stuck being a luminary elder and pillar of her clan for whom everything has to be some matter of great consequence and import.

                  Certainly works and Lucita's sire possible ties to the Angellis Ater - and through them to the line/cult of Azaneal, can only further complicate matters.
                  Seriously, what kind of twisted "Manchurian Candidate meets Cthulhu" sick crap can one pull off when Dominate/Daimonon + Obtenebration combos are in play?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                    Seriously, what kind of twisted "Manchurian Candidate meets Cthulhu" sick crap can one pull off when Dominate/Daimonon + Obtenebration combos are in play?
                    Quite a bit, actually...I've played one before. Well, a member of the faction, not the bloodline. I took ECD (Obfuscate), but no Daimonion. Believe me when I say Daimonion isn't remotely necessary, especially considering my character managed to learn Melpominee and the ST allowed my character access to Nightshades as opposed to Dark Metamorphosis.

                    Not to mention, the Lasombra PC's sire is an apostate Lasombra who traded Potence for Daimonion.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

                      Quite a bit, actually...I've played one before. Well, a member of the faction, not the bloodline. I took ECD (Obfuscate), but no Daimonion. Believe me when I say Daimonion isn't remotely necessary, especially considering my character managed to learn Melpominee and the ST allowed my character access to Nightshades as opposed to Dark Metamorphosis.

                      Not to mention, the Lasombra PC's sire is an apostate Lasombra who traded Potence for Daimonion.
                      Kind of explains Constancia being leery of Anatole's closeeness to a child of Monçada, no?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                        Kind of explains Constancia being leery of Anatole's closeeness to a child of Monçada, no?
                        Well, assuming Constancia has insider knowledge of the deepest, darkest secrets of a clan not her own, to which only a few of that clan's own elders are privy. All when, nothing in the lore states or implies she's exceptionally knowledgeable (for a methuselah) of infernalism, the Baali, or their various entanglements across the clans. The notion she would have that exacting and detailed knowledge stretches credulity.

                        That doesn't mean she wouldn't loathe Moncada for being a manipulative, hypocritical bag of shit...but let's face it, that's practically the clan motto. Constancia isn't described as having a hatred for Lasombra in general, just Lucita, which implies her beef is personal, not ideological or religious.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

                          Well, assuming Constancia has insider knowledge of the deepest, darkest secrets of a clan not her own, to which only a few of that clan's own elders are privy. All when, nothing in the lore states or implies she's exceptionally knowledgeable (for a methuselah) of infernalism, the Baali, or their various entanglements across the clans. The notion she would have that exacting and detailed knowledge stretches credulity.

                          That doesn't mean she wouldn't loathe Moncada for being a manipulative, hypocritical bag of shit...but let's face it, that's practically the clan motto. Constancia isn't described as having a hatred for Lasombra in general, just Lucita, which implies her beef is personal, not ideological or religious.

                          True, true, don't remember anything in particular from DA lore that might indicate Constancia is knowledgeable on issues of infernalism and such. Truth be told, never got a good idea of what her deal actually is, beside being potent of blood, generically wise and the occasional prophet of doom in relation to the clan's great quest/folly. I'm even sure she's an actual methuselah or "just" an elder of very potent blood. Such a vague, elusive figure....

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                            I'm even sure she's an actual methuselah or "just" an elder of very potent blood. Such a vague, elusive figure....
                            Oh, she's definitely a methuselah as of the DAV setting(s). Camden's embrace is listed as 226 AD, so one can assume Constancia is at least 30-50 years older than that given how...spammy...Cappadocians were with childer at the time.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

                              Oh, she's definitely a methuselah as of the DAV setting(s). Camden's embrace is listed as 226 AD, so one can assume Constancia is at least 30-50 years older than that given how...spammy...Cappadocians were with childer at the time.
                              Good to know, as for quite some time it was quite dubious and uncertain. I don't know if i would really go with making Camden quite that old in my games - that would make him almost a methuselah already by 1197 (VtDA's "start date") and i like to think of him as more mid-tier to high- elder, sort of like Valerius, his sucessor as Mithras' seneschal, who was 600-800 years old in his tenure from the 1600s to 1800s.

                              But that's me, i tend to feel most canon NPCs are kind of overblown in generation & such for what they actually do overall. 6+th gen kindred are much less common in my chronicles, even among the methuselahs.

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