[WIR] Chicago by Night 5th Edition

[CTPhipps]

I included this in my game, though as a canonical element that is incorporated into all of my player's Primers (passed out via e-mail):

The Withering

The Beckoning afflicts all Kindred even if they don't know it as it is the call of the Antediluvians and their most immediate childer. The strongest vampires (1000+ years old or 6th generation or lower) are lured to the Middle East to be judged by, fight for, or feed their ancestors. It is not impossible to resist it but those who do find their powers weakening significantly. The once-mighty ability of Elders to control whole crowds, possess inhuman beauty, and think greater than the most brilliant minds weakens until they are no stronger than the strongest ancilla. Elders like Hardestadt the Younger end up killed by a single dragonsbreath blast to the face and Helena is "merely" as beautiful as Hollywood's greatest beauties. It has changed the power balance for vampires significantly.

Those vampires who have fought in the Gehenna Crusade or received the "blessing" of their ancient masters to live another Gehenna Cycle do not suffer a loss in abilities and remain extraordinarily powerful.

Rules Effect: All Kindred are restricted to Attributes, Skills, and Disciplines of 5 or below.

[The Gentleman Gamer]

There's not much need for advanced Disciplines with the increased focus on amalgams. At least, that's my opinion.

[CTPhipps]

There's not much need for advanced Disciplines with the increased focus on amalgams. At least, that's my opinion.

While true for the most part, I'm not sure in the entirety.

Because a major part of V:TM is the Antediluvians and things like Ur-Shulgi.

What does one have as a way to say, "I curse the entirety of the Assamite bloodline or break that curse" or "I summon all of my childer to obey me."

There's a lot of plot device abilities that require more than Amalgams would provide.

But that's just me.

I don't think players should be rolling against Ur-Shulgi anyway, anymore than Frodo can fight Sauron.

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

At the level of the oldest Meths and almost all of the Antes, it just becomes an issue of handwaving. The Storyteller says they do somethey, waves her hands, and it is so. PCs are never going to throw down with Menele, Mithras, Helena, Ur-Shulgi, etc. And presumably you are never going to have players run characters of that power either.

As for historical figures turned into vampires, they are all best taken as "inspired by" rather than "closest approx. Capone died after suffering from paresis (caused by late-stage syphilis) across a period of years, which would not have been easy to fake or hide. And he probably would have been to free minded and violent to serve Lodin. There is a hand-wavey quality to all historical figures turned into NPCs.

[CTPhipps]

At the level of the oldest Meths and almost all of the Antes, it just becomes an issue of handwaving. The Storyteller says they do somethey, waves her hands, and it is so. PCs are never going to throw down with Menele, Mithras, Helena, Ur-Shulgi, etc. And presumably you are never going to have players run characters of that power either.

Well, they can and probably should in the current climate. I like that Helena is actually vulnerable according to her current stats in this game.

Not VERY vulnerable but SOME vulnerable.

As for historical figures turned into vampires, they are all best taken as "inspired by" rather than "closest approx. Capone died after suffering from paresis (caused by late-stage syphilis) across a period of years, which would not have been easy to fake or hide. And he probably would have been to free minded and violent to serve Lodin. There is a hand-wavey quality to all historical figures turned into NPCs.

While I agree it's an alternate reality, I also think that Critias is just his own guy but YMMV.

Historical Critias was, after all, a student of Socrates too.

[Tubect]

While I kind of like seeing stats for Ur Shulgi and similar, I think that in real game terms they're kind of arbitrary and essentially mean "you die if you face them", so would agree with Gentleman Gamer that 5+ disciplines aren't really necessary. It could simply mean a higher number of powers, rather than special, low gen only ones. I always thought that the prevalence of 6+ dot powers in splat books was kind of funny, because the number of parties that could actually use them would be incredibly low, and storyteller characters at that level are better off in the Plot Device range. That's not to say I don't love reading about that kind of fluff though! Give me all the fluff, all the time.

It also potentially sends the message that parties are supposed to be striving towards that level of power (in a D&D style) when a lot of the other rules (how tough diablerie is, notably) seem to be fighting against that pretty hard. V5 especially seems to be leaning towards discouraging the high level coterie playstyle, a decision I'm a big fan of.

[Leandro16]

If we are talking about game design Devotions or Combo disciplines can do the job of elder powers way better than anything by just putting a blood potency requisite.

Also about making power-leagues one houserule that i use is make every roll contested and every dice above 10 an automatic succes becuase at this point you are superhuman and you shouldnt be easy to beat due to a bad roll but you can still be beaten by others with high dicepools or people on your league becuase you still have to roll 10 dice.

But seriusly talking about Tier 3 or Elder games in V5 is kinda a nonsense until the players guide is realeased becuase the entire system is especially designed to be a tier 1 street level game (A great design flaw that could have been evaded by having optional rules).

[Leandro16]

Sortly anotation about the Beckoning:The Beckoning is first something unnecesary becuase you dont need that to say elders are rare or to empower the anarchs there are too many ways to do that but what i don´t like of this particular manner but also disruptive storywise becuase it cuts all the Characters arcs and years of devolopment of both the elders of the anarchs.

Power levels needed a rework after the crazy chuluth like antes from time of judgement but power levels still need to exist and eliminating elders is counterproductive also from the anarch side becuase you take from them the epic of the War of Ages and defeating an ancient mounstruosity against the odds.In other words Theo Bell shooting Hardesthad just means that you cannot do that yourself.

I dont like neither the Gehena or Revised Metaplot and his Kaiju Antediluvians as the power gap between the 3rd and the 4th Gen is a complete disproportional nonsense.

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Now Returning to cometing about the NPCs becuase I don´t want this theme to degenerate
More Critias:Honestly Critias returning to his old personality and acting as a fool is too much suspicius becuase the Real Life Critias is the Anti-Socrates , a member of the thirty tyrants dictatorship in Athenas and also one of the most prominent sophist of the all time in other words he was machiavelian before it was mainstream.The only reason for him to do that is to make the anarch think again of him as not being a treath and center his hate on Jackson or whoever gets to be in therms of the Bloodlines the next Jester King.

CTPhips about your idea of Melene possesing Critias , it makes fucking sense becuase the book actually specifies that he is being dominated by him and with the blood bond it is posible for Menele wich dominate 9 being able to posses him even in torpor.Curiosly one of my uses of the five dots of dominate of Critias was him acting throught his childe Procet , that is why he knows of Tyler diablerizing his childe and why he is angry but doesnt insta frenzy in his presence becuase Procet wanst his dear childe but a propierty so he didnt feel the lost of something truly important.

Sire and Childe share the same Sins.

More about Khalid:He is one of my favorite characters in Chicago By Night and one of the few elders without some pathetic side to hide becuase he confronts his own deeds instead of hidding with is very ironic due to him being a Nosferatu, his character devolopment is all about the search of redemptiom and this is showcased in the irony that he is way more Human as an Undead bloodsucker Monster than when he was alive.

He is without a doubt the most powerful primogen after all he is capable of killing werewolves alone and neither Melene or Helena have control over him thanks to his high obfuscate allowing him to hide from them and eventually discovering their existence but he didnt care becuase he was only in the city for one reason encounter the monitor Rebekah and reaching Golconda he didnt do it but he started to care about his fellow nosferatu and when the Garou attacked he didnt hide he stroke like a murder hobo only to later repent from killing and start thinking about leaving Chicago subconsciusly starting to walk the path towards Golconda by running away from the Jyhad.

He leaving Chicago to continue his search of Golconda as what the wanderer Caine could have been if he repented of his actions is just a natural conclusion of his adventures in Chicago that would have leave the seat of the primogen in Carlhoun.To have Khalid Beckoned is an UNNECESARY sin against the character.

More about Carlhoun:Of Course Critias and Anabelle (maybe SON too) know about him being an impostor but my headcanon is that they tolerate this becuase him triying to sound mystic is golden comedy and also due the fact that without khalid the new primogeniture could not be taken seriusly due the new members and the decline of Critias.That would empower Kevin Jackson too much and they want to avoid that situation.

About the New Primogeniture:I hate this new glamourless primogeniture , I like Carlhound on the seat becuase it´s the logical conclusion to Khalid arc but Rosa and Son shouldnt be there , becuase they represent nobody and neither have the personal power to be there wich is what being the Primogen of Chicago was all about as comented by Dark-Ephifany.About Marcel being there the true is that giving his character he makes more sense staying outside the primogen in order to remain neutral to get more favors

Honestly personally I would leave the new Primogeniture composed by: Ballard (A bastard but a powerful one) , Critias (More manipulative than ever) , Corwin , Inganya or Lucien defending the gangrel corner and Carlhoun disguissed as a Kahlid due his logical devolopment.Kevin Jackson woudl still be in a better position than Lodin due the support of the camarilla to estabilize the domain or the primogeniture being more divided than ever.

• Nicolai not being there means that the tremere have lost a lot of power , their seat on the primogeniture and now it´s the duty of Dusable to regain it wich serves as a plot hook for tremere players.
• Tyler could have been easly moved to new york and be planning a sabbat invasion or an undercover return to the city

Small Self Reflection about Chicago By Night V5:
I am trapped in a controversy for i don´t like at all the devolopment of the elders (With the exception of my dear mounstruosity Corwin , she is too evil not to love and also her backstory is the best of Chicago By Night 2ED) but on the other hand i totally love the devolopment of the ancillae and the neonates of Chicago who were before underdevoloped in comparisson to the elders.I will probably just end scrapping the good ideas and integrating it in my games.
MORE LATER

[CTPhipps]

Wauneka

Type: NPC

Synopsis: Homeless vet spymaster.

Review: Wauneka is a good example of how a classic archetype can be played perfectly straight and still be quite interesting. Basically, he's a homeless Nosferatu spy that has a lot of eyes and ears everywhere. It's a character there aren't a lot of examples of in canon but there's been a lot of references to in the Clanbooks.

It was kind of ironic that previous editions of the game didn't have a Nosferatu informant with his ears to the ground. Yes, Khalid knew everything going on in the city but it was unlikely he'd share any of that information with the PCs under normal circumstances. Wauneka benefits from the fact he's neither too generous of an informant, too informed, or too factionalized. Basically, the write-up for Wauneka is that he probably is the kind of guy you'd have to bargain with for information. His Camarilla loyalties are a bit suspicious and I honestly don't think he should have them (maintaining Nosferatu neutrality) but I suspect if you wanted information on Ed Neally, Ballard, or Son then you could probably get it from him for a price.

I also appreciate the complicated relationship he has with his sire. Yes, Cedrick Calhoun turned him into a monster but you can understand why Wauneka eventually came around where other sires didn't. Cedrick was there every step of the way for him and he eventually acclimated. I like when the Louis/Lestat thing is subverted and the hatred for your creator isn't there. I also like it when there is SOME resentment as it makes a more complicated interesting dynamic.

The fact he's got the "tent cities" of Chicago as his domain by Kevin Jackson (assigned to him sarcastically--which was a nice touch) is a good potential adventure seed. PCs might occassionally feed from the homeless but it's unlikely they will do so in a way that makes Wauneka their enemy. They might, however, be people he could contact if someone tried actively feeding off them or disappearing them like Nathaniel to feed his army of spawn.

Finally, and this is a weird place to praise him, I like that he lives in a sub-sub basement of a major corporation because I've seen places where there are storage of records that aren't visited in decades. So, really, it makes a very secure location to make a haven in. My only question is I'm now curious how he gets in it every night.

Overall, a very solid character even if I don't have much to say about him.

[CTPhipps]

Edith Beaubien

Type: NPC

Synopsis: Ex-socialite, ex-circus performer, now Lilith cultist.

Review: One of the things I complained about for the shift from Chicago by Night 1st Edition to 2nd Edition was that the city lost a lot of "flavor." The characters who were killed weren't always GOOD but they were often very interesting. Hank Cave the Beatnik, Theodore Dooley, a bunch of ex-socialists from the turn of the century, and some really fat lazy Camarilla loyalists were just some of them. Edith Beaubien reminds me a lot of these 1st Edition characters as while she might not have a lot of immediately useful qualities, she's certainly a character with a big personality and a lot of history.

Part of what I like about Edith is she also subverts some stereotypes. One of the irritating comments I read on Reddit (irritating comments on Reddit? Noooo!) was that they didn't like how many vampires of Native ancestry there were in CBN5E. Here, I like the fact we do have a mixed race family that proved to be successful as well as well-respected in society. It just ended with the kind of Gothic "and she joined the circus to be with her one true love" story that fits vampire in its classic archetypalness.

As for her Bahari status? Ehhh, I've never actually been a big fan of Lilith in my settings. One of my Malkavian PCs said it best, "Lilith as a feminist icon ignores she's a murderer of babies and pregnant women. Also, that it was Eve who took the knowledge of Good and Evil before deciding to give it to Adam." Mind you, I am kind of disappointed we don't have much in the way of the Church of Caine in Chicago. I don't think there's any devotees of the Cainite Heresy in the city's signature characters, despite multiple Baha'ri characters, which is a shame. Maybe we'll see that corrected in THE CHICAGO FOLIO as they're mentioned as having a whole section to themselves.

(in retrospect, I wish I'd made it a bigger part of a NPC submission I made)

I will say it's kind of ironic that with Nerissa Blackwater and the Blood Disco, that I actually think Edith is the only character I'd use to talk about Lilith. She's a character that I think has had actual mystical experiences with the Dark Mother while not being so overwhelming that you feel like you're hearing about it from a guy who knew Jesus (Nerissa). The Blood Disco, while entertaining, is also not the sort of place you'd want to get your religious information from unless you were a fan of Xanadu and Olivia Newton John.

There's some other plot hooks and information notes that I like about Edith. The fact that she has two ghouls Blood Bonded to her that are already planning on turning against her. It's a reminder the Blood Bond is not very powerful unless it's accompanied by SOME sort of feeling (be it hate or love). In this case, Edith is very annoyed that they've been taking too large a cut from "her" finances in their tattoo parlor and they may rebel against her out of self-preservation.

There's also the fact Edith hasn't apparently fed since her experience with Lilith. True, false, or is she getting her energy from...something else?

[CTPhipps]

Nathanel Bordruff

Type: NPC

Synopsis: Self-hating vampire-vampire hunter

Review: Nathaniel Bordruff is a hard character for me to comment on because he's never a character I actually get much use of before I end up killing him. I've killed him three times in my games with varying groups and generally, it all amounts to them discovering some nefarious plan of his to try to kill the Kindred of the City or create a flock of blood bound vampires as a sort of one-man Sabbat. Sometimes, the PCs have been given the rite to diablerize him and sometimes they've just left him to burn.

This isn't to say Nathaniel isn't an interesting character, he absolutely is. However, I've always struggled to find a use for him for more than one adventure. Frankly, I don't think that's a terribly bad thing in a NPC as the ability to base a single adventure around a character is still a very useful thing for an ST. With Nathaniel, you have a low humanity monster (his humanity of 2 being equal to Son) that can be the specter which haunts your PCs at night.

Honestly, I think they did a magnificent job fleshing out Nathaniel here but he's still functionally a character that I would struggle to incorporate for more than a few sessions. He's got a better background and multiple characters he's tied to (including a desire to contact the Second Inquisition with all his information on the vampires in the city) but he remains a festering beacon of hatred to all Kindred.

Indeed, one of the weirdest backgrounds I've encountered in 5th Edition is a Loresheet for Nathaniel in the back of this book. I was really hoping we'd get a Maldavis Loresheet but Nathaniel's Loresheet is just strange since he's such a mono-focused character that despises all other members of his species. So, really, I wish they had devoted the Loresheet to another Anarch character or Elder as I felt that would have been better. Also, Nathaniel doesn't strike me as the kind of vampire who has enough influence to warrant such a gift.

I will say there's some really good character beats in his write-up. Nathaniel is one of the few characters that can make me care about Khalid's quest for humanity. Khalid is a monster, psychopath, and guilty of unimaginable crimes simply by inaction let alone the actual evil deeds he's done. However, he's a vampire that never abandoned his desire not to be that way. It means that Nathaniel, a tiny part of him at least, knows he could try to escape his damnation.

I also appreciate that Nathaniel is a surprisingly CRAFTY vampire that I know I've misused in my treatment of him because, for all the fact he is a vampire who wants to exterminate all other vampires, he's a guy who was smart enough to do it in a way that takes advantage of Kindred in-fighting. I wouldn't be surprised if Nathaniel hasn't killed a hundred vampires in his life as a Hound (the Scourge?) of Lodin as well as Prince Jackson. He just focuses on killing vampires that the dominant faction want gone.

Dude knows how to play the game. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason he's NOT Sheriff of Chicago is because Jackson sees a lot of himself in Damien and has disdain for a Southern (former) white man evangelical. Things that normally wouldn't stop hiring a fiercely capable psychopath to take care of your enemies. I also like the fact he's tied with Mercy Valdez even though she rejects the Anarchs and is probably the complete opposite of Nathaniel in every way (but he could end up blood-bonding).

I admit, though, I now feel the most obvious thing I can do with Nathaniel is reveal HE SURVIVED THE PCS KILLING HIM BEFORE. Kevin Jackson has also given him carte blanche to DESTROY THE BLOOD DISCO!

Why?

Nathaniel, being the bigoted monster he is, gets the opportunity to kill 30 Caitiff and a cult to a demon goddess. Plus also....those kinds of people. The PCs must save the disco from being burned to the ground.

It will be an opportunity to use this song as well when Nathaniel whips out the flame thrower on the dance floor and they try to survive it.

[CTPhipps]

BTW, there are a LOT of Nosferatu in this book.

[CTPhipps]

Sortly anotation about the Beckoning:The Beckoning is first something unnecesary becuase you dont need that to say elders are rare or to empower the anarchs there are too many ways to do that but what i don´t like of this particular manner but also disruptive storywise becuase it cuts all the Characters arcs and years of devolopment of both the elders of the anarchs.

Honestly, I disagree because it's Gehenna and we've been building to Gehenna for decades. Frankly, a lot of events do disrupt the cycles of Kindred and are needed to do so. But YMMV.

Power levels needed a rework after the crazy chuluth like antes from time of judgement but power levels still need to exist and eliminating elders is counterproductive also from the anarch side becuase you take from them the epic of the War of Ages and defeating an ancient mounstruosity against the odds.In other words Theo Bell shooting Hardesthad just means that you cannot do that yourself.

For me, the Antediluvians should be the biggest dogs on the block. They're not the biggest dogs in the WOD but they are 10,000 year old wizards and that's pretty potent on its own. Archdemons and Wyrm Lords are about the only thing similar.

It's just there's always a bigger fish in the WOD.

I dont like neither the Gehena or Revised Metaplot and his Kaiju Antediluvians as the power gap between the 3rd and the 4th Gen is a complete disproportional nonsense.

Well, it's the difference between 2000 and 3000 to 13,000 year old Elders. Mind you, we saw one Antediluvian taken down for the count. I also have had Saulot/Tremere, Augustus Giovanni, and Lasombra destroyed in my 15 year V:TM campaign. Lasombra's death happened in an extended homage to the video game Alan Wake where it ended up being banished by mages into the Sun.

More Critias:Honestly Critias returning to his old personality and acting as a fool is too much suspicious because the Real Life Critias is the Anti-Socrates , a member of the thirty tyrants dictatorship in Athenas and also one of the most prominent sophist of the all time in other words he was Machiavelian before it was mainstream.The only reason for him to do that is to make the anarch think again of him as not being a treath and center his hate on Jackson or whoever gets to be in therms of the Bloodlines the next Jester King.

Well, if he is the historical Critias then Menele Embracing him implies that the latter was a lot more brutal an individual than his history sometimes let's on--which I'm okay with. I've always felt between Helena and Menele that it was more likely Menele got involved with the Baali. After all, Menele is the guy who destroyed Pompey and has the power to summon Spirits from the Deep recesses of the Umbra. Vampires don't USUALLY change their behavior but that doesn't mean they don't EVER change their behavior.

Mind you, I don't think Kevin Jackson's position over Critias is going to last because while he's having a breakdown, that's going to eventually settle into a number of things:

* Critias realizing he can squash any vampire but his sire in the city like a bug then starting to throw his weight around. Critias could become Prince of Chicago simply by walking into the Primogen and declaring it.
* Possibly trying to make an alliance with Helena, if he even remembers her. I'm actually kind of inclined to believe that Critias doesn't remember Helena at all from Carthage because she was "just a woman" and her ethereal beauty didn't register with him--which might get Helena to want to kill him.
* The Anarchs realizing he's probably murdered dozens of innocent Kindred in his "school" and then ordering a hit on him. For all of his power, there's little that he can do against modern weapons. Alternatively, being diablerized or attacked during the day.
* The Second Inquisition taking him out as he's linked to a lot of government think tanks and no longer has the Dominate that was probably Menele's doing.
* Possibly trying to turn Chicago into a police state for Camarilla Kindred ala Matt Decker is said to be doing by the Gentleman Gamer.

Either way, I see no reason Critias would defect to the Anarchs.

CTPhips about your idea of Melene possesing Critias , it makes fucking sense becuase the book actually specifies that he is being dominated by him and with the blood bond it is posible for Menele wich dominate 9 being able to posses him even in torpor.Curiosly one of my uses of the five dots of dominate of Critias was him acting throught his childe Procet , that is why he knows of Tyler diablerizing his childe and why he is angry but doesnt insta frenzy in his presence becuase Procet wanst his dear childe but a propierty so he didnt feel the lost of something truly important.

Sire and Childe share the same Sins.

Cool story bit.

More about Khalid:He is one of my favorite characters in Chicago By Night and one of the few elders without some pathetic side to hide because he confronts his own deeds instead of hidding with is very ironic due to him being a Nosferatu, his character devolopment is all about the search of redemptiom and this is showcased in the irony that he is way more Human as an Undead bloodsucker Monster than when he was alive.

I have a very different opinion of Khalid but everyone's NPCs are very different from others. Your Lucita and my Lucita are no doubt very different from the ones that are run at Matthew Dawkin's table. My version of Khalid is that he's a guy who apes the forms of redemption, seeks mystical truths, and experiments with things like prayer as well as enlightenment but never actually comes anywhere near genuine repentance. He might spend forty nights fasting as a vampire then go kill a school bus of people while thinking, "Well, at least I made the 40 nights of fasting. That is an accomplishment." It's actually probably a common thing for a lot of Elders his age because you don't necessarily know your Humanity score and a lot of what you think you should care about you don't.

About the only way Khalid could probably get himself on the road to Golconda is if he somehow met a Salubri that could do the "Soul repair" thing and give him an actual sense of conscience. He strikes me as the kind of guy who has never had a Touchstone in his Kindred life and wouldn't know what it looked like (save maybe Tammy and company--and they're vampires). Oddly, he might thrive on certain Paths but I'm not sure which ones would work for him that weren't going to make him more of a monster.

Road of Heaven?

He is without a doubt the most powerful primogen after all he is capable of killing werewolves alone and neither Melene or Helena have control over him thanks to his high obfuscate allowing him to hide from them and eventually discovering their existence but he didnt care becuase he was only in the city for one reason encounter the monitor Rebekah and reaching Golconda he didnt do it but he started to care about his fellow nosferatu and when the Garou attacked he didnt hide he stroke like a murder hobo only to later repent from killing and start thinking about leaving Chicago subconsciusly starting to walk the path towards Golconda by running away from the Jyhad.

In my games, Rebekah did encounter Khalid who asked for the opportunity to join the Inconnu and ended up frenzying when she pointed out he wasn't a good fit for the organization. Basically, that he was a homicidal psychopath barely clinging to the last shreds of his humanity. In my games that resulted in a duel with Dracula and the latter barely winning before Khalid escaped to finally succumb to wassail.

I haven't revealed that to my PCs yet but am debating that or Khalid is slaughtering people left and right in the Gehenna Wars--knowing THIS, THIS is something he's good at. The Ashirra aren't quite sure what to do with him, though, and may have banished him from their grounds centuries ago.

He leaving Chicago to continue his search of Golconda as what the wanderer Caine could have been if he repented of his actions is just a natural conclusion of his adventures in Chicago that would have leave the seat of the primogen in Carlhoun.To have Khalid Beckoned is an UNNECESARY sin against the character.

Frankly, if you do want to do something with Khalid then the Beckoning is great because:

1. It gets him out of the city to find out secrets of the Antediluvians in the Middle East
2. He can make contact with the Ashirra
3. He can potentially find the secrets of Golconda he seeks
4. The Ashirra have a number of Salubri living with him who could heal his soul of the massive humanity loss he can never get past
5. He could actually encounter the Inconnu.

So there's lots you can do with it.

More about Carlhoun:Of Course Critias and Anabelle (maybe SON too) know about him being an impostor but my headcanon is that they tolerate this becuase him triying to sound mystic is golden comedy and also due the fact that without khalid the new primogeniture could not be taken seriusly due the new members and the decline of Critias.That would empower Kevin Jackson too much and they want to avoid that situation.

I agree, it is comedy gold. Interesting fact that in the RUSTED VEINS adventures, Al Capone was actually the Primogen of Chicago's Ventrue and I think it'd be interesting if instead of killing him that Kevin Jackson and he had formed an alliance.

[*]Nicolai not being there means that the tremere have lost a lot of power , their seat on the primogeniture and now it´s the duty of Dusable to regain it wich serves as a plot hook for tremere players.

In my games, Dusable actually straight up diablerized Nicolai when he came back from Vienna, horribly injured, and entered torpor. Dusable knowing the Tremere Pyramid is screwed and fully intent on building his own power base in Chicago.

The Tremere PCs dealt with him but are now debating whether they should kill him or not.

[*]Tyler could have been easly moved to new york and be planning a sabbat invasion or an undercover return to the city[/LIST]

While she's probably been Beckoned, I like the idea that Tyler has broken free of the Sabbat and now rejoined the Anarchs as their leader. One of the scenes in my game was the Theo Bell assassination of Hardestadt. Theo Bell had PLANNED to kill Hardestadt and die in a suicidal act of defiance. What HAPPENED was that Tyler was present and immediately used her presence to dominate a bunch of other Brujah into joining in the uprising that spread to the remaining Gangrel.

It was also Tyler who finished off the Younger.

She now feels MUCH better, better than she has in centuries in fact (in part because Helena's dominate and Blood Bond of her has been broken).

As such Tyler has gone from being Helena Lite - an evil sell out Brujah-- back to her TRUE self of being a rebel firebrand.

[Leandro16]

Yeah tyler free of the blood bond thanks to the vaulderie and finishing his job this time in public to evite the "we have more hardesthads in the reserve" problem would have been way more coherent than Theo Bell awakening their own murder hobo.

And of Course Critias can just murder hobo Kevin Jackson but being the manipulative being he is I will make him a power in the shadows.

About Antediluvians:Yeah , they should be TOP DOGS no discusion there , what I don´t like is them being able to survive nukes and all that becuase then the power gap between the 4th and the 3rd becomes unrealistic when a coterie of 4th gen methusaleahs are supposed to be similar in power to them.

How Powerful are my antediluvians:This is just a note but one thing I did with the antediluvians and bloodline is give them the power to manipulate "the chains of the blood" becuase when the embrace is done a part of the soul of the sire goes to the childe to awaken vampirism and guess what? that means that every vampire except golcondites and thin bloods have a bit of antediluvian soul inside them fueling the curse and they can manipulate that.

My antediluvians can force a salvation roll upon his progeny if they don´t want to be diablerized from distance or use their powers upon them even if they are not in the same room , they are powerful almigthy beings from vampire perspective becuase they owe your soul and live in your blood but a nuke or a thermobaric misil can kill them for good , of course they aren´t gonna revel their location or stay in one place their enemies know about.This makes sense as for example Saulot was about to nuke NY just becuase he suspected of Tzimisce being there.

Plot Twist:Killing your antediluvian without diablerizing kills you becuase without him there is no one powering the curse.The only way not to die is to commit diablerie over another clan member and this is why in my games a lot of ravnos have gone full sabbat

Note:One of my antediluvians was a victim of a reverse gravity spell aparently no vampire can survive without atmosfere protecting their skins from unfilthered sunlight

About Capone:If he is gonna die it should be due his rivalry with ballard who also makes a better Ventrue Primogen due his great power and control of economy , killing a major Ventrue shouldnt´t be something you could boost , at least try to hide it under the carpet.Neally being under the service of Jackson killing anarch or hunting sabbat members who didnt go to be LaSombras Big Mac would make more sense

About Dusable:I would Honestly make Dusable have his own reservations about diablerizing his own sire , he doesnt seem to be the one to do that even if it is a good plot hook , another interesthing thing would have been if the Pyramid forced him to do that and he is scared of them becuase he comited the same sin as them embracing a tremere and not having she do the tramsumation of the seven.

About Gulfora:She is a great NPC becuase is wacky as only a Chicago Character could be , I always said that he isnt a demon but an eldritch abobination called Qli in relation to the nephandic , she is a being from a previus dead universe whose power is comparable to Helena and Menele.What the players get to see is IT possesing a woman not his true form or power and mine are about to give whatever she is a more powerful body without knowing it.

About Helena:In my games there are five clans and the rest are bloodlines why do I say this? Becuase in my games helena is a the toreador bloodline founder and Arikel/Ishtar/Gilgamesh the Daeva Clan Founder after diablerizing Minos but still doesnt control all that power.A power boost needed to fight on par with Menele AKA "Mr Pompeya was me having a tantrum".

[CTPhipps]

Honestly, I've never been fond of Tyler as a Sabbat.

I always preferred her as an Anarch because, of course, the Anarchs are a sect I support unduly.

(*cue shocks of surprise from this thread*)

About Dusable:I would Honestly make Dusable have his own reservations about diablerizing his own sire , he doesnt seem to be the one to do that even if it is a good plot hook , another interesthing thing would have been if the Pyramid forced him to do that and he is scared of them becuase he comited the same sin as them embracing a tremere and not having she do the tramsumation of the seven.

It was meant to be the climax of basically a long-long series of humiliations and oppression at the hands of Nicolai which exploded outward in a kind of, "Smithers murders Burns" sort of deal (or Wormtongue and Saruman). It was meant to be out of character and Dusable was trying to seize power over Chicago but I do wonder if it was a poor end to Nicolai.

Mind you, I could always just say Nicolai implanted the memory in Dusable to fake his death and keep him from his enemies in the Tremere.

About Gulfora:She is a great NPC becuase is wacky as only a Chicago Character could be , I always said that he isnt a demon but an eldritch abobination called Qli in relation to the nephandic , she is a being from a previus dead universe whose power is comparable to Helena and Menele.What the players get to see is IT possesing a woman not his true form or power and mine are about to give whatever she is a more powerful body without knowing it.

I have her as a Demon: The Fallen Defiler and Earthbound. Eventually, the players in my brief Demon game put her in a human body that caused her to have an existential crisis like so many other demons.

Son in my games also has a demonic investment with her that prevents him from ever going wassail. When he hits 0 humanity, he goes back to 1 and gains an additional derangement.

About Helena:In my games there are five clans and the rest are bloodlines why do I say this? Becuase in my games helena is a the toreador bloodline founder and Arikel/Ishtar/Gilgamesh the Daeva Clan Founder after diablerizing Minos but still doesnt control all that power.A power boost needed to fight on par with Menele AKA "Mr Pompeya was me having a tantrum".

I do more or less state every Toreador in Europe is descended from Helena in my games. Mind you, Michael of Constantinople doesn't exist in my games.