[WIR] Chicago by Night 5th Edition

[CTPhipps]

I admit, before I backtracked on it, one of my stories was Menele diablerizing Critias and then Obfuscating himself as his childer. Helena, amusingly, didn't pick up on it and was unaware just how close her enemy was as well as what he was setting up.

Alternatively. Menele might allow Critias to diablerize him as he plans to transcend the Kindred form ala Saulot and Cappadocius.

I've always liked giving Methuselah's Thirsts to characters.

I had Annabelle THINK she was developing it and offer her protection to a bunch of Thin Bloods....unaware they were becoming her pampered larder.

Awesome comments, Leandro16. I look forward to hearing more of them.

I love it when people throw in their .02 and agree with a lot of them.

[CTPhipps]

Fandom Factoid:

One of the Noddists in my game speculated that Saulot never existed. They had the idea that the Salubri were actually just a Bloodline of the Brujah and that they were created by Menele wandering through the East. Since there's not that many High Humanity Thaumaturges Ancient Vampires.



Alternatively: The Kuei-Jin and founder of Golconda stories were retroactively applied to Saulot who may or may not have been Menele's tutor at some point. I threw it in as an interesting way to muddle the history of vampires and how much might be bullshit.

Another vampire speculated that Michael and Menele were one in the same and that the latter had been actually hiding in Constantinople (The New Carthage that replaced Rome) for a millennia.

[CTPhipps]

Aluc Romas de Leon

Type: NPC

Synopsis: Debased Spanish Nobleman turned Setite manipulator.

Review: Aluc is an interesting Ministry member because he's another "atypical" Setite and basically the male version of Thea a century or two down the line. Really, he's the kind of character who helps broaden the understanding of the Ministry without being completely out of flavor. Basically, a real problem for the Followers of Set is everyone made them Followers of the Path of Typhon when they included the Path of the Warrior and the Path of Ecstasy too.

I'm going to be inclined to say that Aluc is either a Path of Ecstasy follower in terms of Path OR he's a guy who is a Path of Ecstasy follower in name only. The difference between the two is negligible in V5 anyway. I'm of the mind Paths of Enlightenment are just Loresheets now that probably provide you with bonuses in your Humanity rolls (this is how I'm handling it but we won't find out, probably until either the Sabbat or Blood Cults book).

Aluc makes the character of Alexa more interesting as, alone, she's really a rather one-note murder machine that I wouldn't find much use for in my games. As Aluc's consort and preferred assassin, you have a somewhat interesting character that has the loyalty of Kevin Jackson's personal assassin. It's very possible for Aluc to be able to order Kevin Jackson murdered at any time and Alexa will probably do it.

I don't think Aluc actually has any chance of being the Prince as despite the fact he's apparently been in Chicago along time (despite the fact Lodin explicitly hated the Setites), he's gained almost no power and there's no sign that he has nearly the same level of influence as Marcel. Indeed, Aluc seems to be the kind of Kindred who suffers from delusions of grandeur and probably is the kind who believes all he'd need would be the support of the Elders. Support he's almost certainly not going to get because, again, Marcel is far more useful and the Camarilla is unlikely to support a Ministry Prince to begin with.

Aluc is perfectly capable of disrupting the apple cart and making a coup attempt, though. Every now and again, you need a Kindred who overreaches and that makes a decent plotline for a game. Indeed, Kindred: the Embraced, for all of its eight episodes, had a number of plots that were related to vampires who believed they could take on the Prince before replacing them. That kind of arrogance comes naturally to Elders and works here. After all, he's 200 years old and Kevin Jackson is only an ancilla. The thing is that Kevin Jackson has an army, age isn't as important as it used to be, and the Camarilla is not the geriatrocracy that it used to be. It doesn't help that if Kevin Jackson were to die then the following vampires might take the Princedom before Aluc: Annabelle, Cedrick Calhoun, Critias himself (now there's a wildcard), Dusable, and probably good old Maxwell if he's still alive (no telling).

I appreciate that Aluc is openly and well-established as bisexual in his write-up as well. Chicago by Night 1st Edition was, for its' time, one of the most progressive works to be found in RPGs. This is continuing that tradition.

[CTPhipps]

I think the Lasombra are gonna have it too easy to take control of Chicago (Maybe that was the deal with the camarilla).The prince is just an inexperienced ancillae and the primogen with the exception of critias who is having an existential crisis are too weak (Not that a new clan arriving to the city and alterating the scales of power isnt a great plot hook)

My take on the Lasombra is that Sierra will try to get close to Kevin Jackson and use him as a figurehead because they'll need a nice little bulwark against the Camarilla for the time. His position also depends on a lot of support he presently doesn't have and he might trade on the Keepers for. However, the simple fact is he only needs that level of support as long as there's a threat.
But I do think it could very well be Sierra setting herself up to be Kevin Jackson's Seneschal (replacing Alan Sovereign), Primogen, and then making herself Prince.

That Said despite not liking V5 and some of the changes in V5 Chicago mainly the devolopment of my beloved elders and the horrible beckoning there are some interesting new NPC and characters devolopements that I may use or modify a little bit so this deserves a depper analysis but for now I am just gonna leave some brief opinions.

I'd be interesting in what the development of certain elders that bothers you is. I like the Beckoning mostly because I'm flat out declaring it to be Gehenna. It's just a Gehenna that will kill off a lot of Elders but leave the Neonates to carry on for the next cycle in 1000 years.

About Kevin Jackson as Prince:I like this , honestly he is the best bet as a successor for Lodin , powerful , with a lot of mooks to do his dirty job and he doesnt fear to get his hands dirty but he still is an ancillae and a prepared coterie of players can murder hobo him after a few sessions.The only thing I would change is to make Kevin Jakson still a Primogen puppet because the thing about Chicago is that there are so many elders there that being the prince is a job not a prize and I liked this theme.

My inclination is that Helena is controlling Kevin Jackson directly but that's actually exposed her to a lot more scrutiny than it used to be when she was doing things behind the scenes. Kevin Jackson isn't powerful enough to control the city by his own but he's got a rare opportunity to rule with greater freedom than most. The problem, really, is the fact that in the Jyhad it's not a matter of skill but raw magical power.

A 13th generation Int 5 Prince is a 7th generation Int 2 Elder's pawn because the latter has Dominate 4.

Note:I love how ruthless and manipulative is this new prince i may not use him yet becuase my Chicago has already a prince but if he dies he is probably gonna be the succesor.

I was going to have one of the PCs be Prince but decided to have Jackson seize power after Vykos knocked them down for a bit. It makes them debate whether to try to get their throne back.

Damien:I love Damien as a traitor and Puppet of Kevin Jackson becuase it showcases that there wasnt a great difference between him and sheriff but I think that just presenting him as a traitor directly doesn't have impact if you don´t know the character from 1ed and 2ed.I will use this as a posible devolopment props to the writers for this.

Yes, the impact is diluted a lot if you didn't have Damien be friends of the player character. I suggest if the players are Anarchs then they have some Flashbacks (Memorium?) that allows them to remember when Damien was a friendly neighborhood vampire. Maybe make them assume Damien is being dominated or presenced or Blood Bonded-only to reveal he sold them out for Baby Chorus.

About Marcel:Honestly despite being an sterotype Marcel is wonderful as an ST tool becuase he and his cult can work easily well as an enemy to raid by orders of the prince or as an ally that gives favors at a great prize (where´s the catch?) and I like him being neutral to get more favours but I don´t like him as a Primogen and my development for him differs a lot as in my games he is the guy who teaches that Noddism may be bullshit and is one of the anarchs leaders acting as the self proclaimed Caitiff representative (he takes care of them if the listen the word of set who seems to be a very convincing guy as the cult has grow a lot).

Honestly, I don't think there's any reason that Marcel needs to be on the Primogen as he works just fine as an Elder dealing favors. It's not like he represents Clan Interests in the city. I feel the same for Rose to an extent.

About the Methusaleah Caitiff:A 7000 years old caitiff is an antediluvian or something near it in my eyes.I don´t want an antediluvian sucedanium If I go with the Founders awakening i will make the Founders awake , they are way more interesting.

I, by contrast, like the idea of flat out making her an Antediluvian and the irony that she's just enjoying Chicago. There's a bit of humor that if Helena ever pisses her off or the PCs befriend her, she could probably annihilate whatever problem they're facing before moving on.

About Critias:Honestly although I like to see Crtias free from the blood bond as I don´t like the death of Menele or him being a pawn of a freaking ancillae , it would be more interesting if he was now the pawn of Helena to mimick the same happening with Anabelle becoming a pawn of Menele´s side.That said my version of critias is currently hiding becuase he has devoloped metusaleah thirst and it´s looking for a way to balance his new diet or recover his old eating habits.He operates trough a child he poseses but nobody knows this and people belive him to be death after the events of under a red moon.

I'm debating the idea that the Critias everyone knows: the wise, elderly statesman with relatively high humanity is not the "real" Critias but has been Menele possessing him with Dominate 5 or compulsions while making him think he's the real one. And the "real" critias the players are knowing is a craven despicable power hungry coward. A guy who doesn't actually respect intellect or philosophy that much save as how it serves him.

The players finding him going from being Socrates to being, well, Kleon the Everyman.

About Khalid and Calhourn:I like the idea of Calhourn suplanting Khalid becuase it sound like a time bomb about to explode with Nathaniel around but I don´t like him beckoned.Honestly Khalid doesnt want to be in Chicago he is only there until he finds the incomunu or a lead to Golconda just make him go of the city becuase he is an elder with a higher purpourse and make him preparate things a little bit before dissapearing.

I'll get into Cedrick Calhoun soon but one thing I have the idea of is the fact that he's overcompensating. With Rose Hernandez and Marcel on the Primogen, he's far more the Primogen of the Nosferatu than they are and I think Critias and Annabelle can probably see through his Obfuscate anyway. The only person who I think is completely fooled is Kevin Jackson and that's because, well, I think of KJ as really racist and buying Calhoun's pseudo-Muslim mystic act completely.

I am also inclined to think Khalid being Beckoned is probably the best fate for him as I do think wassail or some other failure was destined to him otherwise.

About Son as a Primogen:He is too evil for the sake of being evil to be on the primogeniture , he should be the clan Head but not on the primogeniture.

I see his reign as unlikely to last long. However, I admit I've always given Son a bit of a Karma Houdini status. In my games, Son gave his soul to Gulfora a long time ago and that demoness has often pulled his ass out of the fire.

About Rosa Henandez:The gangrel have gonne to low if Rosa is the new primogen , honestly i would make she go full anarch rote and be considerated a psycho becuase she wants to hunt werewolf and well they Killed freaking critias and lodin (Oficially)

Honestly, there's a serious question of who Rosa Hernandez is supposed to be Primogen OF and I kind of regret that Xavier isn't present in the city. Who killed the former Gangrel Justicar and was Rosa involved?

I agree, though, Bronwyn should be Primogen of the Malks and assume that her becoming so will happen if the PCs take down Son.

Looking forward to the rest of your thoughts.

[Muad'Dib]

+ I've commented elsewhere that the Followers of Set joining the Anarchs is a direction I did not expect (and was one of the major supporters of Matthew Dawkins having them join the Camarilla). However, the more I think about it, the more I think the "Ministry" really benefits the Anarchs and vice versa. (...)

I think what matters in regard to the Followers' of Set cooperation with the Anarchs is the very distinct and elaborate perspective and outlook of the Setites, which includes metaphysics extensively. The Vampires in the Anarchs don't have to believe it to a great extent, or at all, in order to benefit from additional insight and attitude that knowing and exploring such ideas and perspectives can give to a person.

[CTPhipps]

I think what matters in regard to the Followers' of Set cooperation with the Anarchs is the very distinct and elaborate perspective and outlook of the Setites, which includes metaphysics extensively. The Vampires in the Anarchs don't have to believe it to a great extent, or at all, in order to benefit from additional insight and attitude that knowing and exploring such ideas and perspectives can give to a person.

The Brujah used to be portrayed as perfectly coherently able to explain the ethos of Anarchy. They were Genius Bruisers to use TVtropes.prg. The drift in their portrayal means they act like they barely can frenzy out of a paper bag.

The Followers of Set, by contrast, can certainly explain the philosophy of freedom and anarchy from the pulpit.

It just will probably include Eris, the Dark Side of the Force, and Judas.

Now I want a Techie Follower of Set explaining the Sith Code from Bioware to his sire, who will go, "Well, yeah, actually it does work like that even if I question the source."

[CTPhipps]

Nosferatu

The Nosferatu have been mostly unaffected by the changes to 5E aside from the fact, like the Gangrel, Animalism is now a much more useful ability. Actually, it's more to be said that everyone else has been dramatically affected by the changes to feeding but Animalism means the Nosferatu and Gangrel are less affected than most. The destruction of Schrek.net at the hands of the Second Inquisition doesn't affect the Nosferatu of Chicago much either as they weren't a particularly tech-savvy bunch of undead to begin with.

It's kind of interesting to note that tensions among the Anarchs have gone up massively, the Brujah have left, the Gangrel have left, and there's an enormous crackdown on anyone outside of the Camarilla but the Nosferatu are unaffected. You know, despite the fact it's very likely 1/10 Kindred (The Second Inquisition have killed "tens of thousands" of Kindred and there's about 100 to 200K vampires in the world) are dead because of them.

They're THAT good at keeping their head down.

The Nosferatu are also still hideous but the implications in the game are that they're a bit more like the Requiem vampires in that they're not necessarily the most grotesque things ever anymore. You have more "bald, bat earred, fang guys" too.

Before I get into my review I'm going to mention I'm going to miss Khalid while also thinking it's kind of a good thing he's dead. Part of what I liked about Khalid was the fact he was a parody of the "wise mysterious elder" that Inyanga embodied and Critias sometimes was. He was a rampaging homicidal psychopath who embraced a pair of incestuous abused children because he was really impressed by their suffering.

Versus, you know, eating their evil parents and getting them some therapy. A lot of Storytellers wanted him to join the Inconnu or find Golconda but the simple fact is that I think he was best used as a sign that sometimes you just lose the fight against the Beast. Also, there's just an inherently awesome scenario when the Prince says, "Listen, Anarchs, I hate you and will kill you but I'll dial that back if you can help deal with the thousand year old invisible super-predator stalking the streets. Yes, Khalid hit wassail."

While vampire doesn't shy away from controversy, it's also probably a good thing that the Nosferatu lost Khalid and Tammy given their pasts too.

Cedrick Calhoun

Type: NPC

Preview

Cedrick Calhoun

Synopsis: Glad-handing politician and imposter.

Review: Cedrick Calhoun is one of the two best creations of Chicago by Night 2nd Edition. Generally, I was of of the opinion while 2nd Edition was a perfectly fine supplement, it lost a lot of 1st Edition's "flavor" with the massive purge of characters. I also felt the new characters weren't all that great (*cough* Carlyle *cough*) but Bronwyn's Kindred family and Calhoun were the exceptions. Also, Prince Maxwell but we'll see how he's developed in upcoming supplements. Calhoun has a number of interesting qualities about himself but amounts to being a socially gregarious High Humanity Nosferatu who is also a former diablerist.

Part of what makes Cedrick entertaining is the fact that his dark secrets (he murdered his brother and used to kill Kindred for their blood) make his benevolent elements not feel saccharine. Cedrick wants to protect humans from Kindred and (probably) younger Kindred from Elders but you get the impression he probably wouldn't be great at that job. There's an ambitious and cruel side to Cedrick that is also trying to compensate for what he did in the past but not so much that he can really let go of it. However, that's the contradiction that makes his character interesting. His cold black heart is in the right place and he's mean enough that if he ever did become Prince of Chicago then he might actually be able to pull off the job unlike Maldavis who seems to fundamentally misunderstand the nature of what being a Kindred leader means (i.e. herding a bunch of murderous cats).

Inspirations for Cedrick Calhoun when I play him in my games are Boss Tweed from Gangs of New York and Nucky Thompson from Boardwalk Empire. Both are historical politicians and while seperated by multiple decades, they both work very well I think for the kind of person Cedrick is. There's something inherently funny about a Kindred politician as well because there's nothing about Kindred society that's democratic so a lot of his efforts in getting people to like him are wasted. In vampire society, it doesn't matter if 99 out of 100 vampires like you if the 1 vampire who dislikes you is Helena.

That's why I'm kind of a mixed set of feelings regarding Calhoun impersonating Khalid in order to be Primogen of the Nosferatu. Part of this is the fact that it seems wholly unnecessary. Rosa Hernandez is a Primogen (which feels more like a joke than it should since she's not wholly incapable) and Calhoun is easily the most qualified Nosferatu to step up with Khalid dying. Nathaniel is certainly powerful but he's a homicidal psychopath that only functions in Kindred society because he got a job murdering Kindred. Most Nosferatu wouldn't want the job of dealing with other Kindred. Honestly, it feels like something of a joke that Storytellers should play for comedy because Annabelle and Critias both have Auspex 4 so they've almost certainly seen through his Obfuscate as Khalid once or twice. I'm literally of the mind it'd be believable if he showed up, declared himself Khalid, and the two just went with it because, "Nossies be crazy."

Indeed, that is actually how I've been running it in my current game rather than as a serious plot. Comedy isn't entirely a bad thing for a horror game as you can see in V:TM: Bloodlines. I admit, I just find there to be something cheeky about the idea that Calhoun's impersonation works because the vampires who see through it like Son, Critias, and Annabelle don't care while the ones that don't are fooled by Calhoun's less than stellar acting skills. I portrayed Calhoun as basically adopting a bunch of stereotypes and randomly saying bits of the Koran (which aren't actually in the Koran) and Jackson buying it in a bit of a blind spot. Marcel might buy it simply because he was aware Khalid was a very BAD Muslim and it's not like heresy is an uncommon thing among Kindred.

Cedrick is the kind of character who might actually be someone you could lure over to the Anarchs but you'd need to actually prove they could be more than the children throwing a fit over not getting ice cream for dinner. Like Maldavis, he's got a vision that's inherently incompatible with the Camarilla, and Anita Wainwright would have better luck with him than Critias. There are certainly democratic Anarch domains and while who is Baron of those probably depends on Presence, Dominate, and bribes--so does many a RL democracy.

[MCN]

The reason no stats in V5 go over the 5 rating, is because when you start using dice pools greater than ten in size, you start making the Hunger system fail.

As an aside and a bit late, why is that, if you don't mind me asking? I'm playing a Toreador right now, and I'm boosting my dice pools with regular frequency thanks to my disciplines, so I've actually broken the ten dice barrier a few times now with my specialties. Increase the chances of messy crits too often?

[MCN]

double post

[Murder-of-Crows]

As an aside and a bit late, why is that, if you don't mind me asking? I'm playing a Toreador right now, and I'm boosting my dice pools with regular frequency thanks to my disciplines, so I've actually broken the ten dice barrier a few times now with my specialties. Increase the chances of messy crits too often?

I would venture that's before raising your pool with a rouse check. And I guess, the chance for messy criticals is the reason.

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

Menele:My Menele is not gonna be dead or beckoned.NO WAY.

Being gone, or "beckoned" away, is not the same thing as being dead. It allows for a possible appearance at a dramatic moment. Helene was apparently beckoned away and returned - Menele might return as well. Yes, Critias felt the blood bond break. But there are other ways to break the blood bond.

About Son as a Primogen:He is too evil for the sake of being evil to be on the primogeniture , he should be the clan Head but not on the primogeniture.

I think you overestimate the levels of giving a damn on part of Jackson and the rest of the primogen. That Son diablerized other vampires is the only thing that will cause him trouble, and only because of the letter of the law. No one will care about the rest of his depraved insanity. So long as he serves to boost the power and vanity of Jackson and the primogen, they will not care what he does in his spare time.

I'm debating the idea that the Critias everyone knows: the wise, elderly statesman with relatively high humanity is not the "real" Critias but has been Menele possessing him with Dominate 5 or compulsions while making him think he's the real one. And the "real" critias the players are knowing is a craven despicable power hungry coward. A guy who doesn't actually respect intellect or philosophy that much save as how it serves him.

The players finding him going from being Socrates to being, well, Kleon the Everyman.

Which would make him closer to the actual, historical, Critias. Which raises some interesting questions about why Menele embraced him at all.

[Tubect]

A humanity 10 Vampire probably couldn't do that, morally, but it seems like that's pretty shaky with Menele generally. He shouldn't really be able to do much but sit in the wilderness thinking kind thoughts.

[The Gentleman Gamer]

I would venture that's before raising your pool with a rouse check. And I guess, the chance for messy criticals is the reason.

And Bingo was his name-oh.

[CTPhipps]

Well, Critias can't be the historical Critias of Athens because that Critias died in battle and was a lawmaker not a philosopher. The background for CBN is he was a Soliphist executed for his political views and not an oligarch ruler or one of the 30 tyrants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critias_(dialogue)

But history is always shaky in these things since Helene and Menele first met in Carthage.

A humanity 10 Vampire probably couldn't do that, morally, but it seems like that's pretty shaky with Menele generally. He shouldn't really be able to do much but sit in the wilderness thinking kind thoughts.

Well, Humanity is no longer Humanity. It's how close you are to the Beast. In 5E, it'd be possible for Menele to do all sorts of questionable things in the name of his Ambitions and Convictions. Honestly, I like this because the idea of "good" being unable to fight evil or act to better the world seems like a bad representation of it.

I think he was suppose to be Path of Entelechy 10 by V20, though.

Before that was created, I had him actually on the Path of Self-Focus. I sometimes debated giving him Humanity 6 but that was only when Helena and he weren't very different in my games vs. "stately white guy good, hot lady bad."

I think you overestimate the levels of giving a damn on part of Jackson and the rest of the primogen. That Son diablerized other vampires is the only thing that will cause him trouble, and only because of the letter of the law. No one will care about the rest of his depraved insanity. So long as he serves to boost the power and vanity of Jackson and the primogen, they will not care what he does in his spare time.

I like to have my Kindred who aren't on Paths or a thousand years old still have some humanity. Jackson is a professional murderer and a genuinely terrible person but he tends to probably balk at a child-killing mass murderer.

The surviving Primogen are also the less respulsive ones.

Khalid is probably the only one who would be, "How did the murders make him FEEL, though?"

[CTPhipps]

I would venture that's before raising your pool with a rouse check. And I guess, the chance for messy criticals is the reason.

I have the assumption we're eventually going to get something like "Advanced Disciplines"as a Rules Patch.

Advanced Auspex 1-5

Advanced Dominate 1-5

Advanced Blood Sorcery: 1-5

With the requirements of 5 in previous Disciplines and functioning basically identically to the previous editions.

Either that or just rule certain elders are plot devices.

Ur-Shulgi

Stats: You die.