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  • CTPhipps
    started a topic [WIR] Chicago by Night 5th Edition

    [WIR] Chicago by Night 5th Edition



    Hey folks,

    I'm a huge fan of Chicago by Night 1st Edition, 2nd Edition, the original Baptism by Fire, and most of the subsequent books set in the Rust Belt area. Really, the only books I don't care for are Blood Bond and Diablerie: Mexico which is only nominally set in the Chicago Chronicles anyway.

    So, I was really excited about the prospect of a 5th Edition of Chicago by Night. I donated to the Kickstarter and was very pleased to get to read the completed manuscript. I did a re-read of the original CHICAGO BY NIGHT and LA BY NIGHT as well on RPG.net that were very popular. Now, I'd very much like to do one here for you guys on CBN5E.

    I'll analyze the characters, discuss the plot twists, and talk about how it fits into V20 as well as V5E. I hope everyone will join in on this thread who has access to the manuscript (as well as people who don't) with their own opinions as well as discussion of plot points.

    Special thanks to The Gentleman Gamer for writing it!

    Reviews of Content

    Fiction


    Four trips to the Second City
    Red No. 5

    Resources

    The World of Chicago
    Welcome to the Night [Lasombra] part 1
    Welcome to the Night [Lasombra] part 2
    The City part 1
    The City part 2
    The City part 3

    Banu Haqim

    Khadij Al-Kindi
    Aicha Rana

    Brujah

    Critias
    Damien
    Balthazar
    Anita Wainwright
    Gengis
    Gerard (Marc Levensque)

    Caitiff

    Maldavis
    Bennet Steadman
    Francois Mamuwalde
    Nickolas "Sweetie Pepper" White
    Mercy Valdez
    Nerissa Blackwater

    Gangrel

    Rosa Hernandez
    Lester Knife
    Duncan MacTavish

    Lasombra

    Sierra Burrace
    Celia Arcaceil Rivera
    Rabbi Michalis Basaras
    Talley the Hound

    Malkavians

    Jason Newberry "Son"
    Alexa Santos
    Evan Klein

    The Ministry

    Marcel
    Thea Noel MacCrain
    Aluc Romas de Leon

    Nosferatu

    Cedrick Calhoun
    Wauneka

    Edith Beubien
    Nathaniel Bordruff
    Charles "Crook" Dawson
    Rowan
    Adze

    Thin Bloods

    Ben Galura
    Noah "Flyboy" Grewal
    Sylvia Roanhorse

    Toreador

    Annabelle
    Brett Stryker
    Nero
    Kathy Glens
    Erzulie
    Helena

    Tremere

    Abraham Dusable
    Erichtho
    Sun Che

    Ventrue

    Kevin Jackson
    Horatio Ballard
    Alan Sovereign

    Naomi Stewart
    Lodin (Olaf One Eye)

    Bobby Weatherbottom

    Coteries

    The Anarch Center
    Baby Chorus
    Remaining Coteries

    Lasombra

    Lasombra
    Oblivion

    Loresheets

    Loresheet part 1
    Loresheet part 2
    Loresheet part 3
    Sullivan Dane (Non-Canon)

    Adventure Hooks and Chronicles

    Adventure Hooks part 1
    Adventure Hooks part 2
    Adventure Hooks part 3
    The Sacrifice
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 05-29-2019, 10:31 PM.

  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Ready for Backers pending WOD approval!

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Almost there according to 23:12

    Leave a comment:


  • Draconis
    replied
    Originally posted by Kammerer View Post
    I'm going to disagree and say that "The Cobweb" is the single worst loresheet written for V5. It is a glaring design fumble that does not fit the way any other loresheet has been designed.
    No other loresheet is an incremental buildup. Golconda 1-5 is not "you get a bit more golcondier" with every dot. Cult of Shalim gives discrete benefits and the fifth dot is not shalimier than the first one.
    I agree that the book's wording is kind of a mess; here's how I reinterpreted it (and how I would use it in my games).
    1. You can "tune in" and listen to what's happening on the Network; you receive messages meant for you without a roll, and can make an Awareness roll to pick up the general states of nearby Malkavians.
    2. You can send short messages and phrases to individual other Malkavians who are nearby. They receive these automatically if they have the first dot, or with an Awareness roll if they don't.
    3. You can send out a single message to all Malkavians nearby, indiscriminately. They all receive it as per the dot-two power above, and the range is wider than for dot two.
    4. You can borrow the senses of a direct ancestor or descendant. Usually this is limited to a single step removed (your sire or your childe), but you can make a roll to reach further through the web of blood ties.
    5. Someone on the Cobweb acts as a Mawla—it might be the global hive-mind as a whole, it might be an older Malk who has an interest in you, it might even be a fragment of an Antediluvian, nobody knows. May be different entities for different people who buy this level. But someone out there is helping you, and can offer you a wide variety of knowledge from across the years…all filtered through Malkavian madness, of course.
    The dots don't have to be purchased in order, so it's possible to be able to receive and broadcast, but not send to a specific person. Or you might be able to send messages to specific people, but not be very good at receiving messages or picking up on anything not directly sent to you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kammerer
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    The Cobweb (Malkavians)

    Okay, this is absolutely awesome and every Malkavian should be able to have at least 1-5 of this and the ability to buy it in. I find it strange it's in Chicago by Night 5th Edition but that's just because some great writers are there. It should be an essential loresheet.
    I'm going to disagree and say that "The Cobweb" is the single worst loresheet written for V5. It is a glaring design fumble that does not fit the way any other loresheet has been designed.
    No other loresheet is an incremental buildup. Golconda 1-5 is not "you get a bit more golcondier" with every dot. Cult of Shalim gives discrete benefits and the fifth dot is not shalimier than the first one.

    But the Cobweb is designed like an incremental buildup, and it's executed badly at that. Dots 1-3 are incremental "you can use a magic phone". Of these only Cobweb 3 has a game mechanic attached to it, and that game mechanic makes it worse than Cobweb 2. Because with Cobweb 3 you can summon malkavians to you once per story, but with Cobweb 2 you can talk with malkavians whenever. Cobweb 4 is an incredibly niche benefit that I wouldn't rate above one dot. Cobweb 5 is basically fine, though in my opinion overpriced and requires extra discussion on how doing what Malkav wants benefits you.

    I'm also miffed by the fluff piece spending a paragraph to speculate on the existence of Malkav and whether he spies on people through the web. If you are going to write that, then you shouldn't immediately follow with the power to spy on people through the web and a power confirming the existence of Malkav.
    Last edited by Kammerer; 07-15-2019, 08:40 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    OPP made MIlwaukee a major part of the new canon with House Carna...
    But I thought she had left Milwaukee for points unknown. Has she returned?

    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    So, what are you guys looking forward to most and why?
    Cults of the Blood Gods, mostly for the Harbringers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicolas Milioni
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    http://theonyxpath.com/super-super-s...meeting-notes/

    News Update: June 25th, 2019

    An update from someone obsessively following the Monday updates of the game but we're coming to a close on the release of Chicago by Night apparently. They've begun laying out the NPC section and that is the bulk of the book there. They've also sent The Chicago Folio to White Wolf for approval. Let the Streets Run Red and Cults of the Blood Gods are still in the Development stage of things but I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to go for Approval next week. This is very impressive as it means that TCF and LTSRR probably won't be released that far from Chicago by Night 5E.

    Things seem on track for an August release like they initially promised.

    Now here's a bunch of completely unsubstantiated speculation and hopes from me.

    Cults of the Blood God, as Matthew Dawkins helpfully indicated, will probably get a Kickstarter and that means we probably won't see it until next year around August. That's not a bad thing as quality is worth waiting for. I also hope we'll get some good stretch goals from this that relate to the Giovanni, Cappadochians, Ministry, and perhaps Golconda. I don't know what's going to be in this book beyond the Hecata but I'm certainly excited about exploring Kindred spirituality. Do I hope it'll have the possibility of additional supplements like CBN5E?

    Yes, but it's too early to tell on that end. I'm sure whatever they plan will be awesome.

    On Let the Streets Run Red, I've been kind of stupidly obnoxious about my enthusiasm for new Gary material (sorry guys) but I am also really looking forward to both the Chronicle dealing with Milwaukee being updated and also the Chicago suburbs. OPP made MIlwaukee a major part of the new canon with House Carna and I'm intrigued by the idea of Matt Decker turning his hatred of Lupines to a hatred of Anarchs.

    I don't know what's going to be in the suburbs but I'm hoping we'll see updates for some of the missing Cainites from the V5 update for Chicago. Maybe Dickie survived? Who knows.

    I'm also every bit as excited for The Chicago Folio because I love in-character fiction and want to see stuff from the Chicago Anarchs about the new situation. I love all of the Chicago characters so it'll be great to get to hear their "voice's." I also want to see some more information about the Church of Caine which is so far criminal underdeveloped. The Second Inquisition too.

    On a non-vampire front I'm looking forward the Technocracy Reloaded too but I kind of hope they dial back on the Technocracy's niceness. Also World of Darkness Ghost Hunters. The other games may be an Edition behind but it's still all canon.

    So, what are you guys looking forward to most and why?
    I'm majorly excited for Cults of the Blood Gods,to see a new take on the Clan of Death,of course,but also to see the church of caine and mithraism!

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    http://theonyxpath.com/super-super-s...meeting-notes/

    News Update: June 25th, 2019

    An update from someone obsessively following the Monday updates of the game but we're coming to a close on the release of Chicago by Night apparently. They've begun laying out the NPC section and that is the bulk of the book there. They've also sent The Chicago Folio to White Wolf for approval. Let the Streets Run Red and Cults of the Blood Gods are still in the Development stage of things but I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to go for Approval next week. This is very impressive as it means that TCF and LTSRR probably won't be released that far from Chicago by Night 5E.

    Things seem on track for an August release like they initially promised.

    Now here's a bunch of completely unsubstantiated speculation and hopes from me.

    Cults of the Blood God, as Matthew Dawkins helpfully indicated, will probably get a Kickstarter and that means we probably won't see it until next year around August. That's not a bad thing as quality is worth waiting for. I also hope we'll get some good stretch goals from this that relate to the Giovanni, Cappadochians, Ministry, and perhaps Golconda. I don't know what's going to be in this book beyond the Hecata but I'm certainly excited about exploring Kindred spirituality. Do I hope it'll have the possibility of additional supplements like CBN5E?

    Yes, but it's too early to tell on that end. I'm sure whatever they plan will be awesome.

    On Let the Streets Run Red, I've been kind of stupidly obnoxious about my enthusiasm for new Gary material (sorry guys) but I am also really looking forward to both the Chronicle dealing with Milwaukee being updated and also the Chicago suburbs. OPP made MIlwaukee a major part of the new canon with House Carna and I'm intrigued by the idea of Matt Decker turning his hatred of Lupines to a hatred of Anarchs.

    I don't know what's going to be in the suburbs but I'm hoping we'll see updates for some of the missing Cainites from the V5 update for Chicago. Maybe Dickie survived? Who knows.

    I'm also every bit as excited for The Chicago Folio because I love in-character fiction and want to see stuff from the Chicago Anarchs about the new situation. I love all of the Chicago characters so it'll be great to get to hear their "voice's." I also want to see some more information about the Church of Caine which is so far criminal underdeveloped. The Second Inquisition too.

    On a non-vampire front I'm looking forward the Technocracy Reloaded too but I kind of hope they dial back on the Technocracy's niceness. Also World of Darkness Ghost Hunters. The other games may be an Edition behind but it's still all canon.

    So, what are you guys looking forward to most and why?
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 06-25-2019, 04:32 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    This is a great art piece.



    Maldavis?

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    WOOT!

    More art!





    No idea who the Anne Rice-looking woman is.

    Would love to know.

    Bronwyn maybe?

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    I've begun reviewing GARY and its various supplements.

    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...st-to-dust-etc

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Some parting thoughts on Chicago by Night 5E.

    1. This was a great homage to the original books while taking the characters into new and exciting directions. This is definitely the book that Matthew Dawkins, Klara Horskjær Herbøl, and the other authors should be proud of. Is it better than the original Chicago by Night? I dunno since that's got a lot of nostalgia value to it but it is an amazing work overall.

    Camarilla

    2. Kevin Jackson was a great choice for the Prince of Chicago and probably the best one they could have made with characters like Al Capone, Ballard, and Maxwell being a bit too traditional for the matter. He's a character who can be either a patron or an enemy for the PCs and that's probably the way the Prince should always be run.

    3. Ballard is weirdly likable in this book as a victim of the 2008 financial crisis. That's probably a better place to take him as a character as he's not the avatar of capitalist evil before. On the other hand, I think there's always room for a vile businessman in vampire politics.

    4. Alan Sovereign is a character who works well as the Major Dormo and replacement for Edward Neally as a guy you probably are dealing with just so the Prince doesn't have to deal with you. I also like getting back Edward from the Sabbat since I never liked Blood Bond as a supplement.

    5. I think Nathaniel has lasted perhaps a bit longer than his character should have given that he's a vampire who wants to kill all other vampires. On the other hand, he's one of the most immediately useful vampires for Storytellers who need an easy villain.

    6. I really can't wait to find out what happened to Al Capone in the upcoming supplements. I've been waiting six months for the release of Chicago by Night and waiting a couple of more for the information in the side supplements is killing me.

    7. Annabelle and her twisted relationship with Helena works well for making a Toreador harpy into a sympathetic character. Also, she's really a walking Masquerade breach waiting to happen. I was never a big fan of Eletria so it'll be interesting to see how this progresses.

    8. I think Helena is one of my few complaints and it's a very mild one because it seems to imply she was one of Carthage's infernalists when she was one of the people who worked to bring the place down. I would have gone with a slightly more sympathetic take but rampaging diablerist Methuselah is a decent big bad I suppose.

    9. Critias having a mental breakdown to become the toady of a Prince 2000 years his junior is not a good fate for him but nicely displays that you can never really trust your own thoughts as a vampire. I think him killing his students opens a potential plot for blackmail or eliminating the ancient as does him being Beckoned.

    10. Making Damien Sheriff is a great idea. It's one I never would have thought of but works perfectly and eliminates one of the biggest "good guy allies" that Anarch PCs had.

    11. The book is weirdly sympathetic to Brett Stryker given he's Embracing men and women for Helena to devour and is thus a massive serial killer.

    12. The Primogen of Rose, Calhoun, and Marcel may not be as iconic as the originals but functions pretty well. No one is powerful enough to dominate Jackson but the player characters can theoretically stand against them as well. Adding Sierra and Khadij to replace Rose or simply dilute the power of the Primogen further is interesting. Frankly, Khadij can run circles around most of these people and her as Prince is a definite possibility.

    Anarch

    13. I think Anita has truly grown into a great character and is a wise choice to have as Anarch leader because she's someone 3-dimensional enough that if the player characters don't want to be the leader of the Anarchs, she's still worthwhile to follow. I also like Marc Levensque as her Sheriff as you know he'll be stupidly romantic to her and not respond well when rebuffed.

    14. Balthazar being an Anarch is hilarious and believable as a murderous redneck rebel is just him returning to form. Sweetie Pepper also is the kind of guy who can show the dark side of the Anarchs.

    15. Maldavis didn't do well in this book and is kind of unnecessary as a character now that Anita has stepped into her role. I think her becoming an acknowledged Tremere would have been better.

    16. I do think the Blood Disco should have been officially acknowledged as a third Anarch faction since they're so overtly helping Caitiff stand against the Camarilla's domination. They're a weird, fun, and eclectic bunch that also works as a family (with Bennet as the snake in their garden). Adze and Erzulie are also a couple I root for.

    17. Gengis rising to become the secretly wealthy political animal is something I'm not 100% behind because I always liked him as a poseur conformist Anarch. He exists to rebel because it's cool not because he has anything to say about society. However, I like that he WANTS the Camarilla to exist and Kevin Jackson's "list" because without it there's nothing to rebel against.

    Tremere

    18. Have a few mixed feelings about putting down the extensive Big Trouble in Little China rip-off...err homage. On the other hand, points for continuity as well as the fact that it really is something that is the height of WOD dorkage.

    19. Sun Che as a homicidal psychopath monster in a Wiccan hippie's shoes is an inherently cool concept.

    20. I kind of regret Dusable isn't going for Prince because this is probably his best hour. KJ really lucked out and I wonder if the reason he isn't trying is because of Helena's influence.

    21. Erichtho remains a great character and seems like a female V:TM player in terms of personality and attitude (which is a high compliment). She really tells it like it is. I am kind of sad she's not the local House Carnae rep, though.

    Independents

    22. Flyboy really does show why Chicago (if not the world's) vampire population is completely fucked. One of the best characters here even if the people who wanted the SI to go away will go, "Nooo, that would never happen! WHYYYYY!"

    23. Lots of cool, minor NPCs spread through the book with plenty of them being Neonates trying to find their footing that the PCs can help or destroy. We have a Mexican media heiress, an Embraced Kinfolk, a tattoo Nosferatu dedicated to Burning Man, and a social worker who doesn't get why vampires have to be assholes.

    24. Sierra is a perfect Lasombra who would utterly fail to be in the Lasombra. I still wish Lucita had been in this book. Talley is a fan favorite and it's enjoyable to watch him become the greatest Judas the Sabbat would ever know since he's always been a guy with absolutely no ambitions or schemes of his own.

    25. Olaf isn't what I would have done with Lodin but they at least committed to an interesting idea with him.

    Next up - WIR the Anarch and Camarilla guides.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

    Please do a WIR of the guides next - not all of us have those books, and your insight into them should be interesting.
    Thanks, though there's one small issue in the fact they're all fiction rather than setting material.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
    My guess would be Bret Stryker. Kind of fits the look, i think.
    I think Brett Stryker is a good guess but the fur and silk red shirt make him almost look like a Gangrel.

    Originally posted by Leandro16 View Post
    In my opinion Kevin Jackson just made his own bed and Chicago has been hand given to the LaSombra as without inganya , a sane Critias or khalid there is no one who can truly counter the enormous influence of Talley except Helena who doesnt feel in the mood and the plot device meth.
    I think that Talley is probably not a problem because he's one of the least interested in power Elders you'll ever meet and is in a bit of a spot because he's being propped up a political figure by Marcus Vitel (who I suspect is the guy who arranged the Lasombra defection). Talley is kind of like Karsh in that he didn't become an Elder to be a subtle chessmaster. He became an Elder because he was better at busting heads than anyone else until at 800 years old he's almost impossible to kill.

    I do think that Kevin Jackson is probably going to replace Alan Sovereign with Sierra as Seneschal, though.
    Which will be bad business for everyone.

    I would have prefered a situation with more balance of powers between different characters as that was what made Chicago by Night 1ED one of the best masquerade suplements becuase everyone could win or be detroned.
    It is, IMHO, still the greatest supplement of all time. This is better than 2nd Edition CbN and close to the original, though. The big issue I have is that I think it could have used a bit more in the way of power players and rivalries.

    There's a bit too many neonates that are just trying to get along: Sylvia Roanhorse, Mercy Valdez, and Celia Rivera all sort of fit into the same mold of "poor young women turned into vampires and trying to deal with the fallout." There's a bit too many other neonates too, IMHO. They're all original but I think we could have had a few more dangerous Elders and Sullivan Dane instead.

    Note: As criticism, this is pretty mild and all characters in this volume are very well-developed.

    Criticism wise, my biggest is they brought back Lodin but he's so changed that it'd be hard to justify a Jackson vs. Lodin battle for Princeship that I think would be an awesome conflict
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 05-29-2019, 10:37 PM.

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  • Leandro16
    replied
    In my opinion Kevin Jackson just made his own bed and Chicago has been hand given to the LaSombra as without inganya , a sane Critias or khalid there is no one who can truly counter the enormous influence of Talley except Helena who doesnt feel in the mood and the plot device meth.

    I would have prefered a situation with more balance of powers between different characters as that was what made Chicago by Night 1ED one of the best masquerade suplements becuase everyone could win or be detroned.
    Last edited by Leandro16; 05-29-2019, 04:22 PM.

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