Different Strains/Versions of Vampirism other than Kindred in VtM

[Legendre]

If Satan/Lucifer is behind it all, I doubt they'll create something so hindering which it makes more sense that the Kindred came from Yahweh hence from Caine because it's designed as a curse not a empowerment.

If Vampirism really did come from Satan/Lucifer then it'll be much closer to Dracula's (and perhaps Carmilla's) versions of Vampirism since those versions of Vampirism are more of a empowerment from the forces of darkness (hence why they are repelled by Catholic Iconography automatically no matter how much faith the welder has) with the sole purpose to spit the creators face sort to speak not as a hindering curse that Kindred carry with them (hence why Dracula and Carmilla have no beast like the Kindred do) which would be the main difference.

Interesting notion -- but I'm just going to go ahead, sit back with my Neo-Platonist conception of evil as nothing, and indulge in the notion that Satan is incapable of actually making something better when he acts in a way that is disproportionately in accord with the will for pleasure rather than the will for justice.

That said, one could very easily decide that the inclusion of other influences in the execution of the ritual might alter the outcome and produce something that wasn't limited by sunlight, etc.

For example, my most recent chronicle actually concerned the possibility of creating a new clan using an angel as the required sacrifice. That would have had startlingly different results than using the demon (which is what the PCs ended up causing to happen).

Of course, then they promptly wiped out the fledgling clan -- so that storyline was short-lived.

[Black Blood]

Interesting notion -- but I'm just going to go ahead, sit back with my Neo-Platonist conception of evil as nothing, and indulge in the notion that Satan is incapable of actually making something better when he acts in a way that is disproportionately in accord with the will for pleasure rather than the will for justice.

That said, one could very easily decide that the inclusion of other influences in the execution of the ritual might alter the outcome and produce something that wasn't limited by sunlight, etc.

For example, my most recent chronicle actually concerned the possibility of creating a new clan using an angel as the required sacrifice. That would have had startlingly different results than using the demon (which is what the PCs ended up causing to happen).

Of course, then they promptly wiped out the fledgling clan -- so that storyline was short-lived.

Then again if you really knew what Abrahamic Faiths especially Christianity were actually about, which is rather about suffering through life to achieve "heavenly awards" i.e. becoming "one" with the creator by abandoning the flesh for the spiritual, the entire reason why Lucifer/Satan is "Evil" is because they have humans embrace the flesh therefore earthly pleasures hence Vampirism should be a way to create a "afterlife" where one is free from either eternal damnation or slavery by a tyrannical deity where one is dead but yet they still get to enjoy the pleasures that the earthly realm offers pretty much. So I guess it's rather both for Justice and Pleasure that is.

Hence it makes sense that Satan's version of Vampirism would actually be better compared to the Curse of Caine because the latter is designed to be a curse hence it's made for suffering which encourages asceticism to "lift the curse" (hence the beast/frenzying/humanity system) whilst the former would not be a curse but a empowered boone embodying the forces of darkness that is.

[Legendre]

Then again if you really knew what Abrahamic Faiths especially Christianity were actually about....

And there I was trying to keep things lighthearted. Sheesh,

But since we're getting personal here, I'll just go ahead and say that I've got a PhD in Philosophy from UCLA and that among my AOCs are Medieval Theology and Philosophy of Religion. I've taught and designed syllabi for both courses. So I think I have a decent notion of what Abrahamic Faiths are "actually about."

As for knowing about Satan, my day job is literally being the managing partner of a law firm. We're practically friends.

[El Barto]

I'm not pointing fingers, but could we keep the tone civil?

Black Blood, I think what everyone's saying is that, instead of building a new creature from scratch, you can just adapt the existing template. Take away generation if you want, take away frenzy or modify the conditions, instead of humanity use a path that exists or you create or a system like aye-orun, use the existing powers to recreate supernatural abilities or create new disciplines. Use the kindred template as a toolkit, the system already does that to stat critters from other gamelines. It would involve significantly less work.
Or create a new gameline. Lord knows I miss people creating fan lines for owod.

[Illithid]

GM: Why does your Lawyer have theology 4
Player; I just thought I'd give them an interesting back story
GM; Sure, I suppose. It's not like any of your powers work off Theology rolls

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

As for knowing about Satan, my day job is literally being the managing partner of a law firm. We're practically friends.

You got the Dark Prince of Darkness on speed dial, and you just have to name drop that, don't you?

Joking aside, this thread is pretty much classic internet arguing with strangers - its only going in circles. And as it is round, it does not have a point.

[El Barto]

You got the Dark Prince of Darkness on speed dial, and you just have to name drop that, don't you?

'Devil's Advocate' has so many layers of pun in this context😂

[Sergeant Brother]

'Devil's Advocate' has so many layers of pun in this context😂

Theology really did come in handy for being a lawyer...

[Leandro16]

One of the things I like to "hint" in my games is that everyone has potential for vampirism it is something that just "awakens" as lilith did for caine who before all that was just a cursed creature.There are so many ways of getting cursed Dracula cursed himself by renouncing of God , others cursed himself by annoyed the old gods , some choose to become a vampire with a ritual , some were born that way and others just made a deal with demons.

It is just that not all those original vampires embraced

Clan	Supposed Founder	Supposed Origins
Daeva (2750 AC)	Gilgamesh	The Hero King feared death so he sought immortality and in his seeking he found a demon who offered him a deal and so the clan of darkness was born.
Gangrel (200.000 BC)	Lilith	The mother of all monster and whore of the red sea copulated with demons and awakened the power of darkness within Caine creating a great army of monster the Gangrel are only some of them.
Mekhet (2610 BC)	Imhotep	The Faraon wanted to enslave the souls of all his followers in the afterlife but the priest and sage Imhotep refused creating a ritual to mummify himself and his followers.
Nosferatu (837 ac)	Narcissus	When Narcisssus died he was sent to Hades to contemplate a love that would never respond but in the end Narcissus could only love himself and ended annoying Hades who expelled him from the realm of the dead.
Ventrue (753 ac)	Remus	The brother who couldnt rule the day choose to rule the night by making a deal with powerful spirits awakening the darkness within himself.

Note:The non present clans are bloodlines that popped throught history for example the LaSombra were born when an elder ventrue in Rome made a deal with a mekhet to learn sorcery but was later corrupted by his own power , the brujah were a Daeva bloodline born due the influence of the Baali over one of it´s members (Troile).

[Black Blood]

There are so many ways of getting cursed Dracula cursed himself by renouncing of God ,.

Actually the whole "cursed himself by renouncing God" is a invention from Francis Cord Coppla's movie which in actuality Dracula turned himself into a Vampire via alchemy and black magic via the scholomance and it was no curse either but more a form immorality that he discovered the easy way of getting it that is.

[Leandro16]

Actually the whole "cursed himself by renouncing God" is a invention from Francis Cord Coppla's movie which in actuality Dracula turned himself into a Vampire via alchemy and black magic via the scholomance and it was no curse either but more a form immorality that he discovered the easy way of getting it that is.

Yeah I just mentioned it becuase the mekhet already got the ritual origin and didnt want to sound reiterative.

PD:Another Idea Dracula fits more as a Baali than as a Tzimisce , his sunwalking can be justified as the result of dark thaumaturgy or high level daimonion , Scholomance being a Nephandi or Baali nest maybe both.

[Trollroot]

I am reading These Savage Shores. English vampires go to India, meet native ones. So far, pretty good.

[Ben Linus]

Vampires of different strains with no common origin can have traits in common by some sort of evolutionary or mystical convergence. It is not a problem in fact.

And here is just pick up old concepts like Gaki, make Laibons, American Legacies and Lhiannas independent of Cain and that's it.

One of the problems of Kuei Jins is that they are regionalized. A notion of something like the universal Kuei Jins would be interesting. And the Realms could be explained by a Specified Umbra and a discipline to deal exclusively with it.

All together the Hun and Po'oh mechanisms (which emulate much more wraith than vampire) and the resonances of Yin and Yang are unnecessary. Although they can be added as the traditional Fifth Edition resonance system (or something less extreme and more linked to qualities and defects). And use the perpetual hunger of the P'reta and that's it. Perhaps add the ability to blow food at the first level of the discipline.