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Who is dis pater and what does he do?

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  • Who is dis pater and what does he do?

    I've been trying to look into this for awhile and haven't found much outside the small section in the Gio clan book.

    Does anyone have any info or a place I could look to find out, who the father of wealth is, what he does, or why?

    Is he mentioned in Wraith at all?

  • #2
    Dis Pater as an ancient Roman deity of the underworld and wealth - both of which interest the Giovanni. However, what Dis Pater is, at least as described by the Giovanni Clan Book) has never been specified.

    Edit: Assuming Dis Pater is a real wraith, then it must be a powerful inside the society of the Underworld. A likely candidate is the Smiling Lord - the nominal lord of those who die by violence - as he was always a treacherous bastard and might have thrown in with the Gs as part of a long-game.
    Last edited by Grumpy RPG Reviews; 01-27-2019, 12:23 AM.

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    • #3
      It's Latin for 'rich father' (Father of Riches might be a little closer to the intent), a title often associated with the Roman god of the Underworld, Pluto. My impression was always that it was one of the Malfeans or its Nephwrack mouth piece, given the clan's goal of tearing down the Shroud.


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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      • #4
        I like to think yeah Dis Pater May be a mask of a Malfean, or some other Strange Spirit with power over the Underworld and the dead. Maybe his power is in Secrets, Ancient Contracts, and Blessings and curses concerning underworld affairs.


        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #5
          I always thought that "Dis Pater" was a kind of personification of the concept of death and afterlife rather than refering to any specific creature. But then again I'm not all that into either Giovanni or the Cappadocians and I know about nothing about Wraith.

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          • #6
            Dis Pater ("The father of riches") was the roman god of death before he was subsumed into Pluto/Hades cult. In the World of Darkness he's supposed to be an extremely old and powerful wraith who acted as the Giovanni's patron at least a thousand years before Capapdocius embraced Augustus. Keep in mind that in roman times the Giovanni used to be called the Ioveanus, a family of mortal merchants/negromancers. Having someone like the "Father of Riches" as their patron was then completely appropriate.

            When he was embraced Augustus was the "pater familias" of the Giovanni family, one of their most powerful negromancers and he was supposedly a few centuries old due to being a mage. Given his position and sorcerous might, it stands to reason Augustus knew of Dis Pater and was in contact with him well before the embrace. If that's so, Augustus accepting Cappadocius offer could have deeper implications than most people assume.

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            • #7
              Which is what makes it all so interesting, especially playing a character that might be unwittingly working to end the world as we know it with the endless night. Which, sounds like it obviously won't work the way they think.

              At least the Setites know what the general plan is, whether or not it backfires.

              After reading here, I finally found a wikipedia and the link to death itself is mentioned, but more often mentioned is the connection to Pluto.

              I still wish the books gave a little more info, especially on his interactions with the hierarchy and the shadowlands in general.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Talvas View Post
                Which is what makes it all so interesting, especially playing a character that might be unwittingly working to end the world as we know it with the endless night. Which, sounds like it obviously won't work the way they think.

                At least the Setites know what the general plan is, whether or not it backfires.

                After reading here, I finally found a wikipedia and the link to death itself is mentioned, but more often mentioned is the connection to Pluto.

                I still wish the books gave a little more info, especially on his interactions with the hierarchy and the shadowlands in general.
                Keep in mind not all the Giovanni are working for the Endless Night. Augustus is, and he ultimately commands the clan, but the list of those "in the known" is very short indeed and a few of those are actually trying to prevent Augustus from suceeding, among them Ambrogino Giovanni. Most Giovanni ancillae and neonates don't even believe Augustus exists!
                Beckett's jyhad diary mentions several possible scenarios for what happens if the Endless Night ritual is successfully enacted. They vary from "Augustus Wins" to "The Wraiths tricked the Giovanni and rule the world".

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                • #9


                  Just another mask worn by Cappadocius, maybe? I like the idea the Giovanni were worshipping him even before they knew about vampires.


                  Matthew Dawkins
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                  • #10
                    "It was Me Di.. Saulot all along!"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post


                      Just another mask worn by Cappadocius, maybe? I like the idea the Giovanni were worshipping him even before they knew about vampires.
                      Then what has he, or it, being doing the last 575 years? It does make for an interesting idea, that the Johns had been played in a very long con - and how Augustus would have reacted when he found out.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Haquim View Post
                        When he was embraced Augustus was the "pater familias" of the Giovanni family, one of their most powerful negromancers and he was supposedly a few centuries old due to being a mage. Given his position and sorcerous might, it stands to reason Augustus knew of Dis Pater and was in contact with him well before the embrace. If that's so, Augustus accepting Cappadocius offer could have deeper implications than most people assume.
                        Um... Augustus was 59-60, depending on his birthday, when he was embraced. He's young enough that his age isn't up for speculation like most 4th gens. He was born in 945, embraced in 1005.

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                        • #13
                          "The Cult of Typhon, as you see, survived in a fex places, celebrating the rites of Bacchus, Pluto and Mars. Even some cult groups persisted witout any vampire to lead them. For Example, a letter from a Setite of Venice of the tenth century mentions acult of Pluto all-mortal called the Skiathos of Dis, led by a family named DiGiovanni."

                          -Clanbook: Setite revised.




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                          • #14
                            The etymology of “Dis” is hardly certain. It’s probably one of many reflexes of an Indo-European word meaning “divine,” but Cicero suggests it’s a contraction of “dives,” meaning “rich,” in order to make it a native Latin equivalent to the Greek-derived “Pluto.” But that doesn’t square with early uses in which it’s a more generic divine title.

                            In any case, regardless of origins, for the entire historical period there’s no meaningful distinction between Dis Pater, Orcus, Hades, and Pluto. And Serapis, for that matter. That’s how the ancestors of the Giovanni would have understood him: the lord of the underworld, who also happens to be the granter of riches.

                            Now, what were they *really* worshiping? Well...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

                              Then what has he, or it, being doing the last 575 years? It does make for an interesting idea, that the Johns had been played in a very long con - and how Augustus would have reacted when he found out.
                              Well, I think when he found out he'd wake up from torpor and march straight into the shadowlands with a bone to pick... kinda like he did do...

                              @theGentlemanGamer I was so hoping someone would get the reference. XD
                              Last edited by Talvas; 01-30-2019, 02:06 PM.

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