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Who is dis pater and what does he do?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Black Flag View Post
    The etymology of “Dis” is hardly certain...
    I thought it was so people would know which Pater you were talking about. Which Pater? Dis Pater!






    I'll show myself out.

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    • #17
      I think that's only for the Long Island/New Jersey branch of the Giovanni family.


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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      • #18
        So many paters, so little worship time.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Haquim View Post
          Keep in mind not all the Giovanni are working for the Endless Night. Augustus is, and he ultimately commands the clan, but the list of those "in the known" is very short indeed and a few of those are actually trying to prevent Augustus from suceeding, among them Ambrogino Giovanni. Most Giovanni ancillae and neonates don't even believe Augustus exists!.
          That's not the impression I got from the Clanbook. Everything I've read there seems to suggest the ritual is common knowledge among Clan members. Not surprising considering what a huge (and visible to necromancers) undertaking gathering all those souls is.

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          • #20
            Most below I'd say 8th gen just know that they tithe, souls or money. But of course a better, or older necromancer who is 9th-13th might know all about it.

            The lesser families were given a refresher on Necromancy and are pissed about it, so they probably don't know as a whole.

            But I leave it up to my character, he is working towards it. I once had one who just tithed.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
              Just another mask worn by Cappadocius, maybe? I like the idea the Giovanni were worshipping him even before they knew about vampires.
              From reading Clanbook: Cappadocians and Setite, IF manipulation was involved it seems to me Dis Pater could be the alias for a setite. Lazarus was linked to Setites as he hid in Egypth and did not heed Capadocius' call for tyhe feast of Folly. Later he supposedly was able to kill his eldest brother Kaias because he resorted to Serpentis. He's strongly hinted to be the being hiding behind the Capuchin, and it's more than likely the Capuchin helped Augustus Giovanni carry his plans on. Dis Pater was also mentioned as one of the "deities" used by setites for their cults.

              That said, in my chronicle of ages Dis Pater is exactly what he's supposed to be, a very powerful, very old wraith. He's been manipulating the Giovanni since Roman times and he allied with Lazarus helping him carry on his plan in exchange for Lazarus' help gaining access to Enoch (in the Shadowlands). I also had Lazarus betray Cappadocius not because of setite manipulation but because he was trying to foil Lilith's plan for Cappadocius, diablerizing God, which was exactly what Lilith wanted and the reason why she led Lazarus to embrace Lamia.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Malkavian87 View Post
                That's not the impression I got from the Clanbook. Everything I've read there seems to suggest the ritual is common knowledge among Clan members. Not surprising considering what a huge (and visible to necromancers) undertaking gathering all those souls is.
                The clanbook is written with the PoV of 2 Giovanni who are in the known, but it's also stated (now, I remember reading this but not exactly where, sorry for that) that the younger generations of Giovanni vampires don't believe Augustus exists and even mock the "legend" calling him "Uncle Augie". Besides, so many Giovanni knowing the clan is working to cause ghost apocalypse does not make sense. The other clans and sects would never accept that and would destroy them and it would be pratically impossible to keep the information secret (the first Giovanni neonate to be dominated would spill everything).

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                • #23
                  My headcanon has always been that Dis Pater is Set. An identity he used in the shadowlands, and which he moved into permanently after being slain. The Giovannis quick advances in Necromancy, catching the eye os the Cappadocians, the coup and purge of the Capps... all Sets strike against Cappadocious.

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                  • #24
                    A bit of thread necromancy going on here... perhaps appropriately.

                    First let me say that my idea is tangled in terms of game mechanics - but we are dealing with antediluvians, so that is par for the course. Also, I doubt there is a real and secret White Wolf / Onyx Path plan for Dis Pater. The writers generally introduce plot elements as mysteries and question marks, and rely on the gamers to answer the question and solve the mystery on their own.

                    That said, what if Dis Pater (a patron of the Giovanni) is Cappadocius?

                    The background for Cappadocius reads that his embrace went wrong in some manner, and that upon death he lost some part of himself in the underworld. He apparently spent the rest of his existence try to get that part back, and it also drove his questing obsession with death.

                    What if Dis Pater is the portion of the soul Cappadocius “lost” upon his embrace?

                    In Wraith terms, it might be his shadow – which would have been created upon his transformation into a wraith, but he might have regarded it as “lost” when he became a vampire. This would mean he was a vampire – an antediluvian no less – with both a shadow and a beast. This is not that exceptional; Tzimisce allegedly has two beasts.

                    In any case, in this Dis Pater is the manifestation of all of Cappadocius worst traits. Also, a wraith shadow never stops whispering poison, and bad ideas, into a the ear of the wraith. Bad ideas such as “embrace Augustus” and “you can become God if you do X, Y and Z.”

                    This would also explain why it “guided” the Giovanni to destroying the Cappadocians; the shadow of a wraith hates the wraith and seeks to dominate it, or even its destruction. It would also explain why Dis Pater is “guiding” the Giovanni to try and destroy the shroud – it possesses a nihilistic version of Cappadocius own obsession with the shadowlands and death.

                    This, I think, make the fate of Cappadocius and his clan less dumb – they did not fall victim simply to his stupidity, but to the 10,000 year old manifestation of all his malice, and death-worshiping aspects.

                    It also means the independence and power of the Giovanni is largely an illusion – they are still in service to Cappadocius, after a fashion. To take it a step further, the lost bit of blood Cappadocius’s might be his final fetter, meaning this shadow could still manifest in the Shadowlands.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Haquim View Post

                      From reading Clanbook: Cappadocians and Setite, IF manipulation was involved it seems to me Dis Pater could be the alias for a setite. Lazarus was linked to Setites as he hid in Egypth and did not heed Capadocius' call for tyhe feast of Folly. Later he supposedly was able to kill his eldest brother Kaias because he resorted to Serpentis. He's strongly hinted to be the being hiding behind the Capuchin, and it's more than likely the Capuchin helped Augustus Giovanni carry his plans on. Dis Pater was also mentioned as one of the "deities" used by setites for their cults.

                      That said, in my chronicle of ages Dis Pater is exactly what he's supposed to be, a very powerful, very old wraith. He's been manipulating the Giovanni since Roman times and he allied with Lazarus helping him carry on his plan in exchange for Lazarus' help gaining access to Enoch (in the Shadowlands). I also had Lazarus betray Cappadocius not because of setite manipulation but because he was trying to foil Lilith's plan for Cappadocius, diablerizing God, which was exactly what Lilith wanted and the reason why she led Lazarus to embrace Lamia.

                      I wish we had Wraith powers to represent Godlike Wraiths.

                      Buuut we do have Onceborn, wraith/specters growing to godhood.... So I say Dis Pater may have been an Old Wraith, who became a Specter, developed a cult and ate enough souls to become a demigod.


                      It is a time for great deeds!

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                      • #26
                        is it wrong that I read the title of this thread as Arnold Schwarzenegger?

                        "Who is Dis Pater... and what does he do?"


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                        • #27
                          "Who es Dis Pater... and whaat does he doo?"

                          Heh.

                          I wonder if the Blood Gods book will offer any insight on the official story of Dis Pater, or his involvement with the Johns. I mean, I doubt my theory above will be what they go with, but some info on the current relationship would be interesting.

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                          • #28
                            Now who thinks Augustus was a Sorcerer and who thinks he was a Mage. In Giovanni revised there are lots of clues that the endless night shroud removal ritual was actually Cappy’s idea and they don’t even know they are following his plans.


                            It is a time for great deeds!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Magus View Post
                              "The Cult of Typhon, as you see, survived in a fex places, celebrating the rites of Bacchus, Pluto and Mars. Even some cult groups persisted witout any vampire to lead them. For Example, a letter from a Setite of Venice of the tenth century mentions acult of Pluto all-mortal called the Skiathos of Dis, led by a family named DiGiovanni."

                              -Clanbook: Setite revised.
                              This is interesting news to me.

                              However, it doesn't strike me as right that the Giovanni are simply being manipulated by the Setites. Although it would make an interesting Jyhad-level secret for PCs to learn in one chronicle. But as the canon "truth" I am uneasy with it.

                              My personal preference is that the Giovanni are ultimately being manipulated by a Malfean.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                                In any case, in this Dis Pater is the manifestation of all of Cappadocius worst traits. Also, a wraith shadow never stops whispering poison, and bad ideas, into a the ear of the wraith. Bad ideas such as “embrace Augustus” and “you can become God if you do X, Y and Z.”

                                This would also explain why it “guided” the Giovanni to destroying the Cappadocians; the shadow of a wraith hates the wraith and seeks to dominate it, or even its destruction. It would also explain why Dis Pater is “guiding” the Giovanni to try and destroy the shroud – it possesses a nihilistic version of Cappadocius own obsession with the shadowlands and death.
                                An intriguing idea.

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