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Who is dis pater and what does he do?

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  • Talvas
    started a topic Who is dis pater and what does he do?

    Who is dis pater and what does he do?

    I've been trying to look into this for awhile and haven't found much outside the small section in the Gio clan book.

    Does anyone have any info or a place I could look to find out, who the father of wealth is, what he does, or why?

    Is he mentioned in Wraith at all?

  • Talvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Yeah but I mean the fact that Spectres come in waves, rather then what you would expect that they wouldn't be able to handle the sight of themselves or each other. But the book portrayed it they all worked together, but when alone in the Labyrinthe they sometimes eat each other.
    In the clanbook they are portrayed that way sort of. If you hurt one up to three more can show up and have an equal chance to attack the Necromancer or the specter he summoned that was wounded.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
    I'd have to dig my copy of Spectres out to look, but I think I recall Hive Mind requiring a fair amount of skill to pick useful information out of the din and confusion of countless voices of nihilism, self hatred, and destructive impulse all talking at once.
    Yeah but I mean the fact that Spectres come in waves, rather then what you would expect that they wouldn't be able to handle the sight of themselves or each other. But the book portrayed it they all worked together, but when alone in the Labyrinthe they sometimes eat each other.

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  • No One of Consequence
    replied
    I'd have to dig my copy of Spectres out to look, but I think I recall Hive Mind requiring a fair amount of skill to pick useful information out of the din and confusion of countless voices of nihilism, self hatred, and destructive impulse all talking at once.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Man I always hated Specters being all Hivemind Buddies, one of the big reasons I would imagine Wraiths becoming specters would be to harm specters that ruined everything for them.


    Anyhooo I am actually more curious as to the providence of Baron Samedi then Dis Pater. At one point I entertained the notion Samedi was Cappadocius, and that isn't out of the question even now.

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  • Talvas
    replied
    What I don't understand is how, knowing that Specters have a hive mind, how they haven't figured out what the Giovanni are planning for the shroud and joined in to help.

    It seems like smashing the shroud and joining the two, if they could somehow make sure another maelstrom comes, could break the whole thing and tear through, finally unleashing Oblivion or whatever it is that's down there. My actual wraith knowledge is limited.

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  • Talvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Trollroot View Post

    Where is the bit about Dis Pater being summonable by any Giovanni?
    It is in the revised clanbook. On page 17 under Dis Pater, that reverence of him goes so far back and is so ingrained that any member of the family may call on him and if the need great enough he will respond.

    I took that mechanically to be that with Sepulchre 3 and knowing the name Dis Pater, you could summon him but if the need is not great enough he'll kill you.

    Or at the very least this entity can hear most Giovanni and is not Set listening in to keep a long con going and showing up to aid Giovanni Necromancers against whatever stuff they got themselves into, like the wraith Hierarchy etc.

    Could Set even do all of that? And why do it for Gios but not his own Setites?

    Edit: That would also make clan Gio more successful at worshipping Set than Setites are.
    Last edited by Talvas; 07-02-2019, 09:59 PM.

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  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    That whatever is left of Cappadocius - wraith or spectre - finessed his way into becoming a Onceborn would work mechanically, and be more interesting than him fading away or something so (you are right) anticlimactic. That he intended to eat those 100 million souls is also a solid idea.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Does anyone else keep the ghost of Cappy around and not have him dead due to the Maelstrom, which I think is anticlimactic that the death of one Ante is so potent and causes so much collateral it kills the ghost of another?

    I think my head Canon will be Cappadocius performed a transubstantiation of his soul into a Neverborn when Augustus Ate him, making him a Onceborn. And he has been pulling the strings of the final night ritual so he can eat a million Souls and Ascend to a high enough state to attempt to seize the throne of God. The Giovanni meanwhile have no idea and are walking to their doom.

    Also any idea in what ways Augustus is weaker because he never ate Cappy’s soul? What about the idea he never obtained 3rd generation but it warped his blood enough to create the Giovanni, and he is secretly 4th gen? Who are his stated childer in the Books? Does he have any pre-bite childer to compare to the post bite ones? The curse made it so other premascines would be able to only embrace Giovanni right?

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  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    Dis Pater, in this theory, is Cappadocius - simply his shadow side. So, Dis Pater destroying Cappadocius is still Cappadocius arranging the destruction of Cappadocius.

    Edit: It would be interesting if Augustus had at some point learned, or realized, what was happening and this is part fuels his dangerous desperation.

    I think this also gives an interesting color to the Harbringer's vendetta against the Giovanni.
    Last edited by Grumpy RPG Reviews; 07-02-2019, 03:55 AM. Reason: Dis Tater - a ghostly spud - made me do it.

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  • Eldagusto
    replied
    I don't think Dis Pater got Cappy Eaten, Cappy got Cappy Eaten.

    And its not a sure thing Set was killed by Osiris at the time of Christ, he just disappeared at that time and there was a lot of omens.

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  • Trollroot
    replied
    Originally posted by Talvas View Post

    The only problem with that is that Dis Pater can be summoned by almost any Giovanni at any time, and has weight with the Hierarchy. And vast knowledge of their traditions.
    Where is the bit about Dis Pater being summonable by any Giovanni?

    As far as knowledge and influence goes, its not beyond an Antediluvian with Bane Mummies. There is also the notion that Set was slain by Osiris around the time of Christ or so, at which point he would have become a wraith semipermanently. The thing with the Setites is, though, that they have been feuding with the mummies for ten thousand years, and some of that have been afterlife based.


    Originally posted by Talvas View Post
    The Set angle is, like a really really long con for what profit?
    Uh...what? They got to take down an actual Antediluvian hostile to Set. Thats a huge Jyhad win, of the sort that doesn't come around every millennium. They also got to nearly exterminate a rival clan. And Uncle Auggie is not really a player on the level of the true Antes in the Jyhad. If they are influencing him to tear down the shroud... the got a member of the Third Generation and his clan on the hook. I cant really see how any possible payout, short of an outright Jyhad win, could be bigger.
    Last edited by Trollroot; 07-01-2019, 07:34 PM.

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  • Lord Vil
    replied
    Originally posted by Trollroot View Post
    So if the shroud comes down, whats going to happen to Osiris, Duat and all the mummies there? Anything good? Don't think so somehow.


    That would be the complete end for the Reborn. Do not pass go. Do not resurrect. They also would have no way to stop it.

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  • Talvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Sycophant View Post
    is it wrong that I read the title of this thread as Arnold Schwarzenegger?

    "Who is Dis Pater... and what does he do?"
    It would be wrong if you didn't read it that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Talvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
    A bit of thread necromancy going on here... perhaps appropriately.

    First let me say that my idea is tangled in terms of game mechanics - but we are dealing with antediluvians, so that is par for the course. Also, I doubt there is a real and secret White Wolf / Onyx Path plan for Dis Pater. The writers generally introduce plot elements as mysteries and question marks, and rely on the gamers to answer the question and solve the mystery on their own.

    That said, what if Dis Pater (a patron of the Giovanni) is Cappadocius?

    The background for Cappadocius reads that his embrace went wrong in some manner, and that upon death he lost some part of himself in the underworld. He apparently spent the rest of his existence try to get that part back, and it also drove his questing obsession with death.

    What if Dis Pater is the portion of the soul Cappadocius “lost” upon his embrace?

    In Wraith terms, it might be his shadow – which would have been created upon his transformation into a wraith, but he might have regarded it as “lost” when he became a vampire. This would mean he was a vampire – an antediluvian no less – with both a shadow and a beast. This is not that exceptional; Tzimisce allegedly has two beasts.

    In any case, in this Dis Pater is the manifestation of all of Cappadocius worst traits. Also, a wraith shadow never stops whispering poison, and bad ideas, into a the ear of the wraith. Bad ideas such as “embrace Augustus” and “you can become God if you do X, Y and Z.”

    This would also explain why it “guided” the Giovanni to destroying the Cappadocians; the shadow of a wraith hates the wraith and seeks to dominate it, or even its destruction. It would also explain why Dis Pater is “guiding” the Giovanni to try and destroy the shroud – it possesses a nihilistic version of Cappadocius own obsession with the shadowlands and death.

    This, I think, make the fate of Cappadocius and his clan less dumb – they did not fall victim simply to his stupidity, but to the 10,000 year old manifestation of all his malice, and death-worshiping aspects.

    It also means the independence and power of the Giovanni is largely an illusion – they are still in service to Cappadocius, after a fashion. To take it a step further, the lost bit of blood Cappadocius’s might be his final fetter, meaning this shadow could still manifest in the Shadowlands.
    This is the one that makes the most sense so far, to me at least. The Set angle is, like a really really long con for what profit?

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