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  • #16
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    4. They arrived at the castle and it was like stepping into another universe as the world was Old School Transylvania vampires. I basically said, "It's like you've gone from playing Vampire: The Masquerade to suddenly being in Ravenloft."
    This is an awesome way to describe the setting.


    Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
      I think some of you have some very good ideas but I also think there's an attempt to make the Lair of the Hidden into something it's not. In a very real way, it's a short campaign setting that takes the player characters out of the usual dark side of the World of Darkness and puts them in an Agatha Christie novel.

      The ideal presentation of Castle Hunedoara is that the player characters are the X Factor that is shoved into a very old static system, they are the game changers. To stay with my example, the player characters are Hercules Poroit and they are dumped into a collection of oddball old as fuck vampires that they can interact w/ for whatever reason.

      The big appeal of LOTH is that they are among the only 12 Methuselahs in the world that will probably want to have a conversation with the player characters rather than just Dominate or Presence the fuck out of them. These guys, because of their Man CrushTM on Saulot can tell you about things in the campaign setting nobody else in the world will as Galadriel would say, "Because all those who remember are no more."

      There's some obvious plot devices like the fact they may be doing this because they intend to sacrifice the PCs Aztec style to their demon but it's meant to be a closed setting where the PCs can't leave, the Meths can't leave, and no one wants them to be enslaved either. The "point" is to solve the mystery of "what the hell is going on in this castle, who are these people, and what are we going to do once we find out."

      That's not necessarily a game for all player characters but it's a decent one for quite a few groups. They're in Dracula's Castle and for once aren't the vampires but are Jonathan Harker.
      I was going to add on why it did make sense but you pretty much nailed it, plus:

      - There never ever was a book depicting the Inconnu before, exception (Children of the Night, WoD1st ed), therefore, sales, and it really was a very revealing module/setting.

      - When it came out, it was during the Time of Judgment crossover line (and I was pretty hyped when it did). It didn't disappoint, hell, we (canon OCD ppl) got to know a litte bit more on what Saulot was up to after TCIV (and before V20 stated clearly for the first time that his intention was to divide hun/p'o and become Demon Emperor). Plus full stats for all 12 with their whole lineages!

      - Saga

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Saga View Post
        - When it came out, it was during the Time of Judgment crossover line (and I was pretty hyped when it did). It didn't disappoint, hell, we (canon OCD ppl) got to know a litte bit more on what Saulot was up to after TCIV (and before V20 stated clearly for the first time that his intention was to divide hun/p'o and become Demon Emperor). Plus full stats for all 12 with their whole lineages!
        16 years later the book is not bad, but in some respects it is weak. The text is too dense – but using 100 words where 10 would suffice is pretty much a White Wolf/OPP hallmark. More problematic is the too soft portrayal of Saulot, and the limited reason for PCs to give a damn about anyone inside Castle H. The comparison to Ravenloft is good – nicely done actually – but Ravenloft is also one of the great cosmic roach traps. You check in, but you (usually) don’t check out. At least not until the local bosses are all dead. So even if the PC do make it to the Castle, why not let the 12 just destroy each other utterly? When they are all dead, why not have a bit of a laugh and dance in their ashes?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

          16 years later the book is not bad, but in some respects it is weak. The text is too dense – but using 100 words where 10 would suffice is pretty much a White Wolf/OPP hallmark. More problematic is the too soft portrayal of Saulot, and the limited reason for PCs to give a damn about anyone inside Castle H. The comparison to Ravenloft is good – nicely done actually – but Ravenloft is also one of the great cosmic roach traps. You check in, but you (usually) don’t check out. At least not until the local bosses are all dead. So even if the PC do make it to the Castle, why not let the 12 just destroy each other utterly? When they are all dead, why not have a bit of a laugh and dance in their ashes?
          Well, back i n the day. Saulot was an enigma. After V20 in which they explained A LOT of him, yeah, perhaps LotH description seems not enough. On the extense text usage, I disagree, I liked it a lot and believed it was enough to aid the setting and characters. On Ravenloft, sorry, I have no idea, I only play Vampire RPGs.

          - Saga

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          • #20
            Describing the book's portrayal of Saulot as "too soft" is, I think, the wrong attitude. The book presented one interpretation of Saulot, among many possible ones. Being a figure meant to be mysterious, I'd like to think Saulot's true nature is ambiguous, and up to the interpretation of individual book writers and storytellers to decide, based on what they're going for.


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            • #21
              Currently running a VERY long and extensively re-worked version of Transylvania Chronicles, where I couldn't resist the potential of including Hunedoara as a side-quest. Having two characters in the group interested in lore regarding Golconda, they became allies of Danika Ruthvenscu during the 1400's and helped setting the whole thing up (being established players in the area already). They fought by Rothriel's side against the Tremere and watched him fall, and aided the arrival of the seekers and met and shared in some of Mokur's wisdom, before it all came down and only rubble remained where their last, best hope of salvation once stood.

              A few centuries later, their characters are still embittered and outright hostile to the Tremere for what Etrius and his cronies did, and firmly believing all their enlightened mentors really died when the ritual they were working on after Mokur's demise went horribly wrong.

              Some recent events have led them to believe they are being watched by the mysterious Inconnu though...

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              • #22
                I admit I'm one of the ones who finds "Evil Saulot" to be creatively bankrupt.

                Its where my player characters will just roll their eyes and assume it's an imposter because there's nothing interesting in that version.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  I admit I'm one of the ones who finds "Evil Saulot" to be creatively bankrupt.

                  Its where my player characters will just roll their eyes and assume it's an imposter because there's nothing interesting in that version.
                  Amen to that. A Saulot that has stumbled along the path many, many times over millennia and committed some horrible acts and made mistakes? Sure, he's a damn vampire, and bound to mess up or let the Beast get the better of him many, many times over that span of unlife. But "Aaaahahaha this was my EVIL plan all along!"...? Naaah, no sale.

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                  • #24
                    To each their own but I'm not sure people realize that Evil Saulot is subverting a subversion.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #25
                      If the commonly held fan theory about Saulot splitting himself into separate creatures in true, then he can be both good and evil at the same time. That said, I prefer the idea that even his good half is as dangerous, deadly and unforgiving as the God of the Old Testament - and even this good Saulot seeks the destruction of all vampires. He just lacks the power to do so out of hand.

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                      • #26
                        Temporary leave is an interesting idea. I forgot could they Astral Project Possess a body out of the Castle without breaking the pact?


                        But I don't mind it as it is, its a secret place out in the middle of nowhere that happens to hold great secrets and greater drama, I mean there is rarely reason for the Players to go anywhere outside their home city, so I don't see much difference here, especially when a lot of Ancients don't leave their lairs. They can after all send others out as representatives. And if they can project outside of the Castle or possess someone then that is another option.


                        It is a time for great deeds!

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                        • #27
                          Another easy reason is the PCs are sent an invitation and are strongly pressured by the local court to accept.

                          DUN DUN DUN.


                          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Beelzebjörn View Post

                            Amen to that. A Saulot that has stumbled along the path many, many times over millennia and committed some horrible acts and made mistakes? Sure, he's a damn vampire, and bound to mess up or let the Beast get the better of him many, many times over that span of unlife. But "Aaaahahaha this was my EVIL plan all along!"...? Naaah, no sale.
                            This was an interpretation I illustrated in another thread. That Saulot doesn't NEED to be malicious to have done terrible things or to have spawned various evils. He just needs to have had a plan for where things were going, and for those plans to keep going horribly awry. "Evil Saulot" who does these things as part of a millennia-spanning Master Plan(TM) is far less interesting, because VtM has those in ample supply.


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                              "Evil Saulot" who does these things as part of a millennia-spanning Master Plan(TM) is far less interesting, because VtM has those in ample supply.
                              ... An evil mastermind Saulot who also leaves cryptic notes as clues and hints to his EVUL master plan in Transylvanian castles (Transylvania Chronicles). Guest writer: Dan Brown.

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